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Old 01-17-2020, 08:15 PM   #326
VarmintCong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Legacy never competed in it's segment for sales. Ever. Subaru has OWNED the wagon market for pretty much it's entire existence. Just over time, the shift in sales went 3 inches higher.

As Camber said, the Legacy wagon sales slowed cause it's size; so, Levorg is born. I think the weird name comes for the fact it really isn't a Legacy; but, IS the Legacy "replacement". And the reason we didn't get it. They needed that "replacement" so, the wagon style was chosen. If the Legacy Wagon sales were satisfactory in Japan, I think we would have gotten a 5 door WRX here in the states. I think they would have made a hatch instead of a wagon. And life would have gone on and the only complaint would've been the continued use of the EJ. Japanese LOVE their wagons. When I was there in 2008, I was hard pressed to find a sedan in anything smaller than their larger "luxury" cars. I couldn't stop drooling at the Blitzen when I saw one.

I just wish they WOULD invest in that 3rd body style and bring us a hatch.
If Subaru sold more cars in Europe that would help hatchbacks too. Europe has gone off the deep end with regulations, so Subaru doesn't bother with Europe. Maybe after Brexit the UK will open up regulations again - they love Japanese performance cars in the UK.
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:38 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post
The Accord/Legacy buyer is gonna care more about handling, looks etc - so the Legacy loses that one big time.
You mean the slab-sided borefest?
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:57 PM   #328
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Disappointed to hear Subaru won't be at Geneva motor show. Thought they would launch the new levorg...
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Old 01-20-2020, 01:36 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post
Volvo won't sell you a regular wagon without ordering it, and they don't offer AWD. To buy one in stock or with AWD, you have to get the raised variant.

Kind of a stacked deck.

VW's "raised" wagon is 1.4" taller - it sells better cause it looks better.

Which brings me back to my point - the new Levorg looks much better, and less wagony, so it would sell here.
There are quite a few "regular" FWD V60s on dealership lots here in the SF Bay Area; but you're correct on AWD, it's gone starting with MY2020.
But, there are some (extremely few) MY2019 V60 with AWD left on lots.
Otherwise, Volvo aside, MB has plenty of E450 Wagon on lots and it's probably a better buy than MY2019 V60 T6 AWD, IMO.
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Old 01-20-2020, 05:05 PM   #330
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From Tokyo, with passion

Nice to have another choice of Titanic-length wagons to go with the Buick. Jokes aside I need the extra space and it's not silly long like the Buick. Serious front end overhang though.

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Old 01-20-2020, 05:28 PM   #331
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Family Truckster
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:12 AM   #332
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If the Buick had more cylinders and a better AWD system I'd want one, but "FWD+" and a turbo 4 in that Bournemouth is no bueno; GS model would have made it more appealing.

Admittedly though, I bet the levorg is a bit of a porker too (considering all cars are now) does anyone have an official curb weight for it? I spent 45 whole seconds scouring wikipedia and came up with nothing.
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:14 AM   #333
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^^ Can't be much more than a WRX, can it?
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:17 PM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camber View Post
Now, going forward all new Subaru cars are going to be built off of SGP
Not for long...
Quote:
The new project will result in a joint platform (similar to the BRZ/86 project), that will underpin new mid-size electric SUV models from both automakers. In the joint statement, Subaru and Toyota said the platform will also be flexible enough to build future models including mid-size and large SUVs and sedans and "derivative models."
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1123465_subaru-and-toyota-plan-new-joint-electric-suv
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:52 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
Well, in all fairness, that's an EV platform. Other manufacturers with similar universal platforms also have separated their ICE platforms from their EV platforms... VW has MQB and MEB for ICE and EV respectively... All ICE Subaru's should be underpinned with the SGP.
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:54 PM   #336
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Latest top spec Levorg GT-S is 3580 lbs. Exactly what my BL GT is listed at.

Buick Regal TourX top spec is 3850 lbs.
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:55 PM   #337
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^^ Can’t be much more than a WRX, can it?
No idea - not sure if it will gain weight when it goes to the SGP, it will probably only gain 50lbs+/- by going wagon, a penalty I don't have a problem paying; however the current WRX is 3,300-3,500, I assume the Levorg would be 3,400lbs for the base model, 3,600lbs for the limited/loaded trim, but it could be more based on the platform and which way they want to take it (more luxury = more weight).
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Old 01-21-2020, 02:00 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Latest top spec Levorg GT-S is 3580 lbs. Exactly what my BL GT is listed at.

Buick Regal TourX top spec is 3850 lbs.
Thank you fo rthe Levorg GT-S numbers, surprisingly in line with my guesstimate.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:37 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
If the Buick had more cylinders and a better AWD system I'd want one, but "FWD+" and a turbo 4 in that Bournemouth is no bueno; GS model would have made it more appealing.

Admittedly though, I bet the levorg is a bit of a porker too (considering all cars are now) does anyone have an official curb weight for it? I spent 45 whole seconds scouring wikipedia and came up with nothing.
The Buick TourX was the perfect Euro wagon, given it was a clone of the Opel Insignia.

I looked at the TourX when looking at the Alltrack-S as my next daily to replace my 04 GTI. The biggest flaw I saw in the Buick was the badge; meaning, no aftermarket support to improve where the factory left off, and little to no community to support.

I also didn't like the interior of the low and mid trims, and in order to get the good seats, you had to get the highest trim with a bunch of other non-essential stuff. Despite crazy money off, I dismissed the TourX as my next car, despite it being a true Euro Wagon.

The lack of a manual didn't help the cause either. I could get three pedals in the VW, despite them being in very short supply; but no 3-pedal option in the Buick.

Sad, the TourX has sooo much potential, but in the end, is let down by the badge on the hood.

I'm pretty sure the 260 turbo 4 could get tuned, but at what cost?
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:43 PM   #340
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AFAIK the Buick has the Camaro 4 banger. Which has been tuned out pretty healthily. Far past what I'd consider acceptable with the driveline limitations of the Buick. They had to cut corners somewhere to offer so much for so little money (price out an Outback XT for comparison). Problem is the Buick just weighs too much to be anything other than a straight line mash and go car. 300 lbs over a Levorg is a huge difference not even taking into account the difference in suspension tune.
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Old 01-21-2020, 05:05 PM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
AFAIK the Buick has the Camaro 4 banger. Which has been tuned out pretty healthily. Far past what I'd consider acceptable with the driveline limitations of the Buick. They had to cut corners somewhere to offer so much for so little money (price out an Outback XT for comparison). Problem is the Buick just weighs too much to be anything other than a straight line mash and go car. 300 lbs over a Levorg is a huge difference not even taking into account the difference in suspension tune.
To be fair, and as you pointed out with Outback XT, TourX is huge, riding on a 111" wheelbase, Levorg Gen1 is on a 104" wheelbase.
That being said, most of the wagons I'm looking at are heavy, the 2019+ Volvo V60 is 4,000 lbs minimum, 2019+MB E450 is 4,250 lbs minimum.
So, IMO, TourX at 3,850 lbs is lightweight and Levorg is featherweight .
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Old 01-21-2020, 05:16 PM   #342
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Yup, it was night and day going from my Legacy to the Buick and back. But I said the same about the Polestar V60 a while back. Something just feels right about the old Subaru that's not being matched in today's larger and heavier vehicles. The Levorg is sub-mid sized which is about max for a decent turner. Anything bigger usually has a 6 or 8 cylinder which seems to muck up the chassis in anything close to this price point.

Needing safety devices for the safety devices has ruined cars. It forced CUVs as the solution. Shame.
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Old 01-21-2020, 09:51 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Yup, it was night and day going from my Legacy to the Buick and back. But I said the same about the Polestar V60 a while back. Something just feels right about the old Subaru that's not being matched in today's larger and heavier vehicles. The Levorg is sub-mid sized which is about max for a decent turner. Anything bigger usually has a 6 or 8 cylinder which seems to muck up the chassis in anything close to this price point.

Needing safety devices for the safety devices has ruined cars. It forced CUVs as the solution. Shame.
I can't disagree about weight. Less of it is better.
But, frankly, waiting for Subaru and Levorg could literally be a never ending game.
I have bought and paid off a whole new car since July 2015 and we're still not anywhere close to have a low riding performance 5-door vehicle from Subaru, let alone something we can call wagon.
My patience is wearing thin at this point.
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Old 01-21-2020, 10:55 PM   #344
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RS6 is 5000000 lbs. ****able, but doable?
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:59 AM   #345
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Interesting comments on the TourX drivetrain. When I drove one it felt worlds better than the Subaru CVT. How could you look at the turbo 4 fwd+ CVT in the outback and feel it was better than the Buick?

Peace,

Greg
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:06 PM   #346
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Interesting comments on the TourX drivetrain. When I drove one it felt worlds better than the Subaru CVT. How could you look at the turbo 4 fwd+ CVT in the outback and feel it was better than the Buick?

Peace,

Greg
Yeah, I was about to ask the same but I haven't driven an Outback XT. I need to drag myself into the Subie dealership.
Maybe I'll test drive an OBXT while I leave my 06 WRX Wagon for its second airbag replacement...
But, more seriously, the TourX had an Aisin 8-speed and a GKN Twinster torque vectoring RDU and Outback XT has none of this except a rear open diff, selective braking and HTCVT.
But, I'm guessing the drivetrain comments were more about Levorg/WRX AWD vs TourX AWD.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:11 PM   #347
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Nobody said Outback XT was better or worth it. They weigh about the same and the Buick is cheaper. Engine is more tunable and the trans can handle more power because Subaru CVT sucks in general and sucks specifically the more load you throw at it.

The Levorg weighs around 300 lbs less and has VTD, so I'd Levorg before I'd Buick. But the Outback is a distant third for all the reasons above and no VTD.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:13 PM   #348
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And the Outback is terribly over run by Joker face and ass.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:13 PM   #349
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And Levorg...
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:39 PM   #350
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I can't disagree about weight. Less of it is better.
But, frankly, waiting for Subaru and Levorg could literally be a never ending game.
I have bought and paid off a whole new car since July 2015 and we're still not anywhere close to have a low riding performance 5-door vehicle from Subaru, let alone something we can call wagon.
My patience is wearing thin at this point.
Within just a few months of exactly the same position, and with the same conclusion.
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