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Old 09-11-2009, 11:12 AM   #76
AzSandSlinger
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Yes but they are given different punishments after proven guilty or a plea. Two people arrested for bank robbery will have the same initial punishment regardless if one is arrested on scene and the other after a grand jury.
Paying your fine in lieu of showing up for court (for either citation) is the same as pleading guilty or no contest.. Your analogy is not an equal comparison..

-Shane
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:37 PM   #77
az ej20 fan
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I think you could debate this until you are blue in the face, but here are 2 points I would like to have clarified:

If photo radar is meant to catch speeders, why put a sign: "Photo Radar Ahead"?

If speeding = going over the limit, why give people 9-10mph leeway?

Riddle me this....
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:56 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by az ej20 fan View Post
I think you could debate this until you are blue in the face, but here are 2 points I would like to have clarified:

If photo radar is meant to catch speeders, why put a sign: "Photo Radar Ahead"?

If speeding = going over the limit, why give people 9-10mph leeway?

Riddle me this....

1. It's not meant to catch speeders.. Its intent is to control speeding..

2. why the leeway? to ensure the person is actually speeding. IIRC, the tolerance allowed to auto manufacturer's is 5% (might actually be closer to 10%).. if the speedo reads 65mph the actual speed could be 68-69 (71-72 @ 10%).. then add another few mph for the average leeway given by patrol officers..

-Shane
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:35 PM   #79
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most officers give about 15 mph unless you go speeding by them.
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:46 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by AzSandSlinger View Post
1. It's not meant to catch speeders.. Its intent is to control speeding..

-Shane
I would imagine that it does control speeding for about 1/4 mile or until the next radar station.
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:48 PM   #81
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most officers give about 15 mph unless you go speeding by them.
C-Grunt...is criminal speeding a judgment call by the LEO or is there an SOP for it?
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:27 PM   #82
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Its a judgement but has to be 20 over plus. Under that you can get reckless driving but you have to do several things bad.
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:42 PM   #83
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If anyone has this guys contact info pm it to me I wanna send him a free shirt
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:01 PM   #84
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If anyone has this guys contact info pm it to me I wanna send him a free shirt
wearing that shirt might be one of the dumbest things someone could possibly do. i'd rather wear a michael vick jersey to an animal rights convention.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:27 PM   #85
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But I can picture you wearing it, Martin
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:49 PM   #86
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its too big....
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Old 09-11-2009, 11:47 PM   #87
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shouldnt it say, "photo radar sucks" or "camera tickets suck" or "i love monkey/giraffe masks" or something like that? i think that would be more up his alley.
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Old 09-12-2009, 12:56 PM   #88
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Heres a thought - Nobody has even attempted to say what the Real (AZ) definition of Speed Limit is.


I'll give you a hint, its Not whats 'posted.'

For all those that are getting Uppity about people doing 11 over - I agree its not Wise. For a LEO to pull you over and cite you is one thing. For a camera, its 100% unconstitutional - Speeding aspect aside, to allow this is to let go of yet another constitutional right.

And if your OK with that, Please Move To China. They could use you there.
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Old 09-12-2009, 02:47 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by TixArmy View Post
Heres a thought - Nobody has even attempted to say what the Real (AZ) definition of Speed Limit is.


I'll give you a hint, its Not whats 'posted.'

For a camera, its 100% unconstitutional - Speeding aspect aside, to allow this is to let go of yet another constitutional right.
Please provide more than opinion.. Title 28-702 clearly states that signs erected by the state govern the maximum speed on the roads they are posted on..

-Shane
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:33 PM   #90
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^^
With my limited experience with speeding tickets, I counter you with the following;

ARS 28-701. Reasonable and prudent speed; prima facie evidence; exceptions
A. A person shall not drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances, conditions and actual and potential hazards then existing. A person shall control the speed of a vehicle as necessary to avoid colliding with any object, person, vehicle or other conveyance on, entering or adjacent to the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to exercise reasonable care for the protection of others.
B. Except as provided in subsections C and D of this section or except if a special hazard requires a lesser speed, any speed in excess of the following speeds is prima facie evidence that the speed is too great and therefore unreasonable:
1. Fifteen miles per hour approaching a school crossing.
2. Twenty-five miles per hour in a business or residential district.
3. Sixty-five miles per hour in other locations.
C. The speed limits prescribed in this section may be altered as authorized in sections 28-702 and 28-703.
D. The maximum speed provided in this section is reduced to the speed that is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and with regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing, including the following conditions:
1. Approaching and crossing an intersection or railroad crossing.
2. Approaching and going around a curve.
3. Approaching a hillcrest.
4. Traveling on a narrow or winding roadway.
5. A special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions.
E. A person shall not drive a motor vehicle at a speed that is less than the speed that is reasonable and prudent under existing conditions.


28-701 supersedes -702 and -701(A) clearly defines AZ's current stance on what a speed limit is. It also happens that when you get cited for speeding (From a LEO and under a Civil citation) 28-701(A) will tend to be what you are cited for violating.


With all the above said, I will leave it to this Forum's Legit LEO's to give their impressions. After all, it will all come down to the officer's point of view as to what is reasonable and prudent.










And yes If you can't tell;
Our various departments need to start hiring more cadets so I can become a blasted LEO!
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:39 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TixArmy View Post
^^
With my limited experience with speeding tickets, I counter you with the following;

ARS 28-701. Reasonable and prudent speed; prima facie evidence; exceptions
A. A person shall not drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances, conditions and actual and potential hazards then existing. A person shall control the speed of a vehicle as necessary to avoid colliding with any object, person, vehicle or other conveyance on, entering or adjacent to the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to exercise reasonable care for the protection of others.
B. Except as provided in subsections C and D of this section or except if a special hazard requires a lesser speed, any speed in excess of the following speeds is prima facie evidence that the speed is too great and therefore unreasonable:
1. Fifteen miles per hour approaching a school crossing.
2. Twenty-five miles per hour in a business or residential district.
3. Sixty-five miles per hour in other locations.
C. The speed limits prescribed in this section may be altered as authorized in sections 28-702 and 28-703.
D. The maximum speed provided in this section is reduced to the speed that is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and with regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing, including the following conditions:
1. Approaching and crossing an intersection or railroad crossing.
2. Approaching and going around a curve.
3. Approaching a hillcrest.
4. Traveling on a narrow or winding roadway.
5. A special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions.
E. A person shall not drive a motor vehicle at a speed that is less than the speed that is reasonable and prudent under existing conditions.


28-701 supersedes -702 and -701(A) clearly defines AZ's current stance on what a speed limit is. It also happens that when you get cited for speeding (From a LEO and under a Civil citation) 28-701(A) will tend to be what you are cited for violating.


With all the above said, I will leave it to this Forum's Legit LEO's to give their impressions. After all, it will all come down to the officer's point of view as to what is reasonable and prudent.










And yes If you can't tell;
Our various departments need to start hiring more cadets so I can become a blasted LEO!
if you are going 66 in a 65, you can get a ticket. the posted speed limit is the speed limit. R&P is for situations where there is no posted speed limit or where there are other circumstances that lower the reasonable speed to be lower than the posted speed limit. and if im wrong about all that it doesnt matter because in your post it says the highest R&P is still 65.


that being said, i hate those stupid cameras.
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Old 09-12-2009, 05:22 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TixArmy View Post
28-701 supersedes -702 and -701(A) clearly defines AZ's current stance on what a speed limit is. It also happens that when you get cited for speeding (From a LEO and under a Civil citation) 28-701(A) will tend to be what you are cited for violating.
28-701 does NOT supersede -702.. Maybe you glanced over this too quick when you posted:
Quote:
C. The speed limits prescribed in this section may be altered as authorized in sections 28-702 and 28-703.
ARS 28-702 states:
Quote:
B. The maximum speed limit determined pursuant to this section is effective when appropriate signs giving notice of the maximum speed limit are erected.
methinks it's not the lack of precinct's not hiring.. methinks it's your lack of comprehending the laws they want you to enforce..

-Shane
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Old 09-12-2009, 06:04 PM   #93
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Ouch - Nice Burn.

See this is what I get for lack of sleep and well... Not reading past section A.

You will understand if I don't buy you a beer in the future


jk
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Old 09-12-2009, 06:55 PM   #94
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All statistics provided by the erection of these cameras are only a reflection of the fraction of the freeway that they are posted on. In my opinion, it is not a valid argument to say that they are to control speeding entirely. People speed, slow down for the 1/4 mile that there is a photo enforcement zone, and continue to speed to the next photo enforcement zone.

On the revenue side of the argument, I do not feel that they are generating enough revenue to warrant their use. Since there is essentially no punishment severe enough to force the accused to pay their ticket, 75% of people don't pay it. It's hard for me to agree that the 25% of people who do pay are generating enough revenue to exceed the cost of the creation, installation, maintenance, issuing, serving, & collection of the cameras/tickets.

I feel the cameras are useless either way.
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:14 PM   #95
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Words, words, erection words, words, words.
Heh Heh, you said erection.

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Old 09-12-2009, 08:15 PM   #96
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welcome to the United States... you want fair??? take you arse where the 17 meets the 10 fwy. The camera's are not going away any time soon. just like gas isnt going to cost $1.00 per gallon and porsches arent ever going to be $4000 new again. As a matter of fact the DBacks and Suns have a better chance at winning it all then for the camera's to come down. And why do people keep calling them Photo radar... I thought they were triggered by the things on the ground just like the stop light ones. The Vehicles i thought were the only ones that used Radar.

I personally think that time will be better suited to investigating why the government buys hammers for $200 bucks and toilet seats for $400 bucks... Why a congressman only has to serve 1 day in office to have his health care taken care of for the rest of their lives. Why it costs over 1.5 million dollars to ship the space shuttle from california to Florida.

oh well..

and Jeff.... move to china? I thats a whole other can of worms there. lol
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:38 PM   #97
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I thought the camera's use radar to determine speed and triggers in the road for the operation of the camera.

But I don't know for sure.
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:43 PM   #98
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Why it costs over 1.5 million dollars to ship the space shuttle from california to Florida.
l
I agree with you on all points except for this. A space shuttle is big as hell. I mean really big. I thought they were shipping them on the backs of 747's last time I checked. Just the fuel required to run the plane that hard, at those speeds, and at that distance must be major money. I can't imagine what they pay the pilots with bawls big enough to do that too. Then there is the upkeep on the plane, the transport to and from the airfield, the personnel, the extra equipment, etc, etc. In a world where you can drop a million in the blink of an eye, 1.5 million seems rather cheap for the amount of work that must go into such an undertaking.



Last edited by kpluiten; 09-12-2009 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 09-12-2009, 09:03 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by kpluiten View Post
I thought the camera's use radar to determine speed and triggers in the road for the operation of the camera.

But I don't know for sure.
the fixed cameras use a sensor in the ground. the vans use radar.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:23 PM   #100
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I agree with you on all points except for this. A space shuttle is big as hell. I mean really big. I thought they were shipping them on the backs of 747's last time I checked. Just the fuel required to run the plane that hard, at those speeds, and at that distance must be major money. I can't imagine what they pay the pilots with bawls big enough to do that too. Then there is the upkeep on the plane, the transport to and from the airfield, the personnel, the extra equipment, etc, etc. In a world where you can drop a million in the blink of an eye, 1.5 million seems rather cheap for the amount of work that must go into such an undertaking.
What about all the money it took to modify that 747 dash-whatever from a standard people mover to a "big as hell" space shuttle mover? Engineering, materials, labor...
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