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Old 03-24-2008, 02:09 PM   #1
Scooby921
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Default '96 brighton open class rally car - EJ20G - looking for turbo recommendations

I'm not sure where else to put this as there isn't a turbo-specific forum. You guys have built many a motor and deal with sizing and matching components appropriately. I'm looking for a little help selecting a new turbo for an EJ20G motor.

Background:
I'm in the middle of helping a friend build a rally car for Rally America and NASA. The rules require we have a restrictor (34mm) in the intake, pretty much in the turbo inlet. The way they are written we can't use the stock turbo off the EJ20G since it is the old style with the inlet that turns up 90 degrees. That wouldn't allow us to put the restrictor in the right place. Due to some budget constraints and the layout of wiring and hoses on the older motor I think we have to move to a rotate mount setup for simplicity.


Can you guys / gals recommend a decent rotated mount turbo setup that will work well with a stock EJ20G? Quicker spooling is much preferred over peak power. For now we're using the stock JDM ecu, so I think things like launch control and anti-lag are unavailable. The car should weigh in under 3000 lbs so it doesn't need a ton of power to get it moving.
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Old 03-25-2008, 01:23 AM   #2
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what are the motor specs? this makes a huge difference...ie cams, portwork RPM's, type of fuel what tranny antilag etc etc
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:33 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRX WRX View Post
what are the motor specs? this makes a huge difference...ie cams, portwork RPM's, type of fuel what tranny antilag etc etc
I'm not sure what the exact specs are. I know its bone stock and will stay that way for now. Fuel will be 93 octane unleaded pump gas as is required by the rules. There won't be any antilag, at least not for the first year or two. Tranny is the stock JDM 5-spd.

I can't seem to find any data about the cams. The motor is out of a v4 JDM WRX if that helps at all. Stock turbo is a TD05H-16G (small) pushing 12psi.

Last edited by Scooby921; 03-25-2008 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 03-25-2008, 09:31 PM   #4
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You may want to search in the old school pre-02 turbo area. A version 4 is not a ej20g but a ej20k. Is it coil on plug? If it isn't (has spark plug wires) than it is not an ej20g.

In addition, the ej20k has lately being blowing bearings both here and in the UK (I assume in Japan too but they don't have as many boards like this). You may want to think of a rebuild or at least a tear down and inspection with new bearings. What class are you running in? I thought all cars had to come with that motor stock in the US or they are open class?
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsubi View Post
You may want to search in the old school pre-02 turbo area. A version 4 is not a ej20g but a ej20k. Is it coil on plug? If it isn't (has spark plug wires) than it is not an ej20g.

In addition, the ej20k has lately being blowing bearings both here and in the UK (I assume in Japan too but they don't have as many boards like this). You may want to think of a rebuild or at least a tear down and inspection with new bearings. What class are you running in? I thought all cars had to come with that motor stock in the US or they are open class?
Thanks for the info. I suppose I was wrong about what it came out of then. The friend who owns the car / bought the motor told me that's what car it came out of. In any case, the number on the block casting is EJ20G, not to mention it does have coil on plug.

It will be an open class car. I doubt that it'll be competitive, but hopefully it'll be fun.
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsubi View Post
You may want to search in the old school pre-02 turbo area. A version 4 is not a ej20g but a ej20k. Is it coil on plug? If it isn't (has spark plug wires) than it is not an ej20g.

In addition, the ej20k has lately being blowing bearings both here and in the UK (I assume in Japan too but they don't have as many boards like this). You may want to think of a rebuild or at least a tear down and inspection with new bearings. What class are you running in? I thought all cars had to come with that motor stock in the US or they are open class?
There is a EJ20G that has plug wires. It is the SF5 Forester EJ20G. For all intents and purposes it is a 20K, but Subaru has it labeled a 20G for some unknown reason.

Everyone I know in Japan has blown a 20K that has run one. Why can't you use that restrictor with the 20G's 90* inlet?
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
The rules require we have a restrictor (34mm) in the intake
This is huge. Very few of us in here run restrictors. Be careful who you take advice from. I'd go straight to a rally shop for real world advice.

-Paddy
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keirnna View Post
Why can't you use that restrictor with the 20G's 90* inlet?
It has to be within a certain distance of and perpendicular to the vanes of the compressor. It basically has to mount IN the compressor inlet on any of the none elbow'd turbos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 555ideways View Post
This is huge. Very few of us in here run restrictors. Be careful who you take advice from. I'd go straight to a rally shop for real world advice.

-Paddy
We've been talking to a couple of rally teams / shops, but most of them are smart enough to use a newer motor and can drop in just about any bolt-on. Due to a budget we're stuck with this motor for awhile. Its one of those things were we are doing whatever modifications we feel like and just going to run the class it fits in (open).

I believe SRT uses a Garrett GT32 twin scroll (Crawford's CP-32 kit). I've seen a couple other teams running a bolt-on twin scroll with a JDM V7 or V8 motor. I guess I'll go research older WRC cars and see what turbos they've used.
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:43 AM   #9
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There are several ways to make a later model turbo work. I would say run a custom metal inlet pipe straight under the manifold. It is very common in Japan.
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keirnna View Post
There are several ways to make a later model turbo work. I would say run a custom metal inlet pipe straight under the manifold. It is very common in Japan.
Thanks...that's where it looks like we're going with the car. I didn't want to have to tear down the engine (which is an EJ20G) but we might as well do the fuel rails (reroute w/ equal length SS) and clean up the manifold while we have the top of it apart. Time for a weekend project!

If anyone has any more info on restrictors or where to get one for this project please feel free!

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Old 03-28-2008, 07:25 PM   #11
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I really wouldn't worry about the fuel rails.
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Old 03-29-2008, 12:25 PM   #12
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One thing that you need to keep in mind is the function of the restrictor, and where it has to be put...

I know that sounds strange, but hear me out...

Most classes require a restrictor before the turbo...

Now, think what that does to the compressor map....

If you are going to run, say 1 bar of boost, normally you would be looking at the 2:1 part of the compressor map...
With the restrictor in the intake tube, the map will be at 2:1 on the left side of the map, and close to 3:1 on the right side of the map...
The restrictor will pull a vacuum infront of the compressor wheel, causing the change in ratio across the map...

I would also check the rules on where, and if, you can recirculate air to... (BOV)...

Keep that in mind when choosing your turbo....
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:37 PM   #13
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bump.
Anybody have an idea what a good turbo for the EJ20G with a 34mm restrictor combo is?
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Old 01-26-2009, 04:43 PM   #14
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any vf series turbo will work well for your application. i am talking about a vf30, 34, 39, etc. will you be running anti-lag on the car as well? if so, i'd go out and buy 5 turbos to start.
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Old 01-26-2009, 06:36 PM   #15
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i would ditch it and get a usdm motor. more tuning options, more reliable, easier to find parts for

which is crucial when you're racing.
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:36 AM   #16
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No I won't be running anti-lag. The car is basically a $5,000 car so it's built with mostly OEM off the shelf type of stuff. USDM EJ22 block, JDM EJ20G heads, PP6, EVOIII 16G turbo. I chose the 16G because it seems to be a popular choice but if there was a more ideal turbo for the job I can always change it.

Yeah I thought the JDM EJ20G heads were a good choice to go with my stock EJ22 block on the Legacy, but I was wrong. It's really hard to get parts for and probably more expensive in the end because of that. If these heads go, I think I am going to try and do something USDM so that I can go down to the dealership to get gaskets and tune-up parts that I need.
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:36 AM   #17
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No I won't be running anti-lag. The car is basically a $5,000 car so it's built with mostly OEM off the shelf type of stuff. USDM EJ22 block, JDM EJ20G heads, PP6, EVOIII 16G turbo. I chose the 16G because it seems to be a popular choice but if there was a more ideal turbo for the job I can always change it.

Yeah I thought the JDM EJ20G heads were a good choice to go with my stock EJ22 block on the Legacy, but I was wrong. It's really hard to get parts for and probably more expensive in the end because of that. If these heads go, I think I am going to try and do something USDM so that I can go down to the dealership to get gaskets and tune-up parts that I need.
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:40 PM   #18
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http://franzdiebold.com/

Specializes in restricted turbo setups.






BTW: We have a saying here in CO...Red Wings suck.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
No I won't be running anti-lag. The car is basically a $5,000 car so it's built with mostly OEM off the shelf type of stuff. USDM EJ22 block, JDM EJ20G heads, PP6, EVOIII 16G turbo. I chose the 16G because it seems to be a popular choice but if there was a more ideal turbo for the job I can always change it.

Yeah I thought the JDM EJ20G heads were a good choice to go with my stock EJ22 block on the Legacy, but I was wrong. It's really hard to get parts for and probably more expensive in the end because of that. If these heads go, I think I am going to try and do something USDM so that I can go down to the dealership to get gaskets and tune-up parts that I need.
if you need parts for ej20g/k/h heads you can mix-n-match stuff from the 96 dohc ej25d heads and or 97-99 ej25d stuff.

you can get an ej205 swap for sub $2500 prices these days and you have an unlimited amonut of tuning options in comparison to any phase 1 jdm motor

unless you go standalone..
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:55 PM   #20
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VF22 used to be the WRC turbo for version S5 '98 and '99 (yes that was on a 34mm restrictor)
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