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Old 03-11-2009, 01:31 PM   #1
Sir Punk
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Default uncle scotty's cocktail latest rumors

I've been reading here and on other forums that lately some people reported that uncle scotty's can wear down certain parts in the gear set and in the long run be bad for the gears. I've not been able to trace the original source for this but only, but apparently someone who builds gears noticed that.


Maybe there is a thread with all the latest developments but I couldn't find it. Or is this just something that has been blown out of proportion?
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:41 PM   #2
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I have run stock, redline mt-90, and uncle scotty's. I didn't really notice a huge difference between them all and will likely be going back to subaru oem stuff in the diff and trans in the summer.
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:44 PM   #3
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is mt-90 better than the NS, for a 5sp stock just for DD?
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Punk View Post
Or is this just something that has been blown out of proportion?

i'd put my money on that. Most likely the same Yahoos that say that an Aftermarket Short Shifter will make your Right Rear Wheel Bearing grenade.
Everyone knows thats caused by the blinker fluid being too low....

T
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:08 PM   #5
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Punk View Post
I've been reading here and on other forums that lately some people reported that uncle scotty's can wear down certain parts in the gear set and in the long run be bad for the gears. I've not been able to trace the original source for this but only, but apparently someone who builds gears noticed that.


Maybe there is a thread with all the latest developments but I couldn't find it. Or is this just something that has been blown out of proportion?
I tend to not take chances by using a mixture that sounds like someone just guessed at. I don't know Uncle Scotty or how he came to the conclusion that mixing different oils in certain proportions was better and I am in no way trying to criticize his mixture. But if there was some documented scientific method I would feel better about trying it. With that said, many inventions and improvements have been by accident and if he has been using it in his own car, I would love to take a peek at his gears and see the difference.
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:46 PM   #7
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Sir Punk:
MT 90 ws recommended years ago by Cobb. I used it until I realized that it was GL-4, not GL-5 like Subaru specifies. I called redlline, and they recommended NS.
I switched to USC about two years ago, and it seems to be working better than either of the Redline products.
There are lots of opinions and experiences reported with the various fluids. I will be switching to Extra-S this spring.
Uncle Scotty did a lot of research back when there wasn't much solid info available out there. What he came up with worked for a lot of people, myself included.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth WRX View Post
I tend to not take chances by using a mixture that sounds like someone just guessed at.
there was no guesswork involved


what the hell do you think you know about lubrication anyway???

bloody wankers posting out their asses is the worst thing about this whole thing here


one of these guys posting a UOA on a transmisson that already had

OVER 250,000 MILES ON THE ****ING THING


AND that UOA is supposed to tell us WHAT....exactly???

That the transmission was already bloody worn out???????
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:29 PM   #9
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I would just follow what the car manufacture/engineers suggest you to use rather than a low-life trailer trash hard talkin' guy on a car message board says... That's just me though..
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:37 PM   #10
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I like Uncle Scotty, even if he bashes on me all the time for being such a noob. LOL. I am glad you showed up. I actually have been a bit skeptical when hearing that USM can be so bad.

I've been running it for 10k and lately I've noticed more problems to go into reverse and 2nd gear. So Uncle, tell me, is your mix not very good at low temps, say 10-30f? is it possible that after only 10k is losing is consistency, and thus these problems? I have a long road trip in front of me, 5k and I need to decide whether I should change my gear oil.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:37 PM   #11
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-A lot of people like it. Some haven't noticed a difference. A few haven't liked it.

-It's not up to the factory spec and has ingrediants which aren't specifically recommended for your hypoid front diff. The ingrediants have been shown to seperate. Who knows if that means anything.

-Whether it's harmful or not, it is a band-aid fix for worn synchros

-Responses from it's maker have been less than professional, which may or may not lead you to question the validity of his claims (see above).

I am not an advocate of the mix, nor am I an enemy. Do your own research, draw your own conclusions, calculate your ratio of risk to reward, and base your decision off of that.

So there you go, I was trying to keep that as neutral as possible... Ok Scotty, you are now free to call me a "wanker," "idiot," "moron," or however it is you normally respond to people who don't heap praise on your ideas and aren't physically in front of you.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
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......................
you really need to ask a moderator to lock this....it should never have been posted in the first place
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:54 PM   #13
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--Whether it's harmful or not, it is a band-aid fix for worn synchros

.
I WILL SAY THIS ONE MORE ****ING TIME

THE 'COCKTAIL' WAS AND NEVER HAS BEEN ANY ****ING KIND OF BAND AID FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN THERE BEING NOTHING AVAILABLE THAT DID NOT ****ING MAKE THE SYNCHROS GRIND

THAT IS HAS THIS ACTION IS COINCIDENTAL AS THERE WAS NOTHING AVAIALABLE AT THE TIME THAT DID NOT MAKE THE BLOODY 5MT GRIND

HAVE YOU AND ALL THE REST GOT THIS THROUGH YOUR BLOODY BLEEDING DENSE AS LEAD HEADS YET?????
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
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.....
I was gonna say that, unfortunately most people don't know squat and yet talk.
I honestly don't know why people are making such a big deal out of this. But could you please answer my questions since you are the one who knows better the mix?
Do you also think that the current gear oil today are up to par with the mix or that the mix is still better?
thanks
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
one of these guys posting a UOA on a transmisson that already had

OVER 250,000 MILES ON THE ****ING THING


AND that UOA is supposed to tell us WHAT....exactly???

That the transmission was already bloody worn out???????
Once again, that was me, and you TOTALLY misrepresented what happened, and neglected the fact that went back and got a cocktail analyzed from a MY 2000 RS with 89,000 miles on the gearbox.

We went over this: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...postcount=1856
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:02 AM   #16
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To the OP:

Between the incriminating, but circumstantial, results from the UOAs and the fact that 2 of the best Subaru transmission builders in the country specifically discourage the use of the Cocktail, I would strongly encourage you to avoid using the Cocktail.

To me, it's not an issue of wither it's the factor that "kills" the tranny. If it simply means I have to replace one extra worn part during the rebuild, it's just not worth it.
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
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To the OP:

Between the incriminating, but circumstantial, results from the UOAs and the fact that 2 of the best Subaru transmission builders in the country specifically discourage the use of the Cocktail, I would strongly encourage you to avoid using the Cocktail.

To me, it's not an issue of wither it's the factor that "kills" the tranny. If it simply means I have to replace one extra worn part during the rebuild, it's just not worth it.
Because it makes LESS WORK for them because they dont get to rebuild so many transmissions and make less $$$

And if they tell you any different.......I'll say bull****.
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:20 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
Because it makes LESS WORK for them because they dont get to rebuild so many transmissions and make less $$$

And if they tell you any different.......I'll say bull****.
Think what you want, but both of the vendors in question are more reasonable and more respectable than you are.
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:34 AM   #19
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Think what you want, but both of the vendors in question are more reasonable and more respectable than you are.
Déjà vu.
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:53 AM   #20
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Had uncle scottys cocktale for years in my old 02 wrx that I purchased new.
Had the car for 5 years and never had a problem .
Shift like butter .

I added a twist to it I added gm synchromesh with neo synthetic gear oil .
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:25 AM   #21
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To the people who have reported this post like Uncle Scotty is posting things in here like "your mother is a whore" or "your 6 year old should be killed" need to relax. He is stating his opinion. If you believe him, great. If you choose to run pure Wesson oil, great.

When many of you were in grade school Uncle Scotty posted his now famous cocktail formula. He said, "This is what I use, this is why I use it. Use it if you like, don't use it if you don't like." That's it. This was the first fluid that many, many, many people used and like on here. Now after many years, we have several fluids that have their fan bases. Extra S, Motul 300V, and Redline lightweight shockproof being the other famous ones. Like spark plugs and motor oil, sometimes people have preferences and specific cars may not like what others have used for some odd, unknown reason. Case in point, my car loves Mobil1 motor oil, but MANY have reported it disappears like water in theirs.

If Uncle Scotty's Cocktail (remember: this is a reference to the cocktail, not the user Uncle Scotty) has done wrong by someones tranny as in blown up gears, synchros, etc. in the last 5 or 6 years that I've been here, I haven't seen it. I have seen a few people blame Royal Purple gear oil for blown trannies, but I do not see the associated witch hunt for Royal Purple that many have for USC.

My opinion:

USC has been run since many of you were in grade school. It is the wrong fluid to run per SOA. Many here say, "OMFG XXX Vendor says run YYY fluid, so Uncle Scotty is an idiot." Yes, but those asshats don't realize that the YYY fluid that XXX recommends is the wrong fluid per SOA as well. Pot meet kettle. There are four famously known and widely used fluids....Extra S, Motul 300, Redline lightweight, and USC. Pick what you want to use and use it.

And I respect the fact that Dylan and Andrew recommend something different than USC. But neither one of them is a tribologist or a materials scientist with FAE testing to bear witness to their opinion, so their opinion has the same weight as mine, Uncle Scotty's, or my cousin Billy Earl. Hell, I recommend something different, but I would run USC any day of the week with no fear as moreso than the other fluids, it has a PROVEN record for being good for many years. It might not be "right", but it damn sure works. The same hold true for other things like one step colder plugs or 10w40 motor oil.

Relax. Use what YOU and (sometimes) what your car likes. Then worry about things that are important.
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:31 AM   #22
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Moved to PM.

Last edited by williaty; 03-12-2009 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:35 AM   #23
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I like it when Uncle Scotty uses big letters.
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:07 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
And I respect the fact that Dylan and Andrew recommend something different than USC. But neither one of them is a tribologist or a materials scientist with FAE testing to bear witness to their opinion, so their opinion has the same weight as mine, Uncle Scotty's, or my cousin Billy Earl.

Thanks for the sensible response! This thread was headed downhill fast, as oil discussions usually do!


Anyway, the subaru trans experts have recommended against it based on what the interiors of the trans have look like, IIRC. They probably have torn open more subaru trans than anyone else on the board, so are experts at spotting what different oils leave behind inside a trans. If one leaves an inch of tar/sludge behind, it doesn't take a materials expert or tribologist to figure out that might be a problem.
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:44 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
there was no guesswork involved


what the hell do you think you know about lubrication anyway???

bloody wankers posting out their asses is the worst thing about this whole thing here


one of these guys posting a UOA on a transmisson that already had

OVER 250,000 MILES ON THE ****ING THING


AND that UOA is supposed to tell us WHAT....exactly???

That the transmission was already bloody worn out???????
Okay. So, now I know a little more about Uncle Scotty. Unnecessarily defensive and possible anger issues... Could have taken to opportunity to provide the method used to determine how he decided to create his mixture but instead blew a gasket. ..
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