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Old 01-04-2018, 03:19 PM   #1
PDXREALTOR
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Default Front output shafts and oil

I recently had my trans out to install a couple bad synchros.

I've noticed each output shaft out of the front diff is now showing oil residue between the diff and boots (the black metal part of the shaft).

I've cleaned them with brake cleaner, and the residue comes back. It's not heavy at all. Just enough to see.

Should I ask the shop to fix this, or is it considered typical?
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:07 AM   #2
PDXREALTOR
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anyone?
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:19 AM   #3
Elbert Bass
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No not typical unless you have high mileage and had the axles removed.
You need new axle seals - probably got damaged or the springs popped out removing/installing axles.
Can't speak for other shops but it is good practice to replace axle seals when have a transmission out, especially with mileage. Subaru even pays for them on warranty transmission repairs - on brand new low mileage cars.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:49 PM   #4
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Thx I'll see what the ship says. I'm gonna fix an oil leak at the drain tube today do they don't try and blame it on that.
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXREALTOR View Post
Thx I'll see what the ship says. I'm gonna fix an oil leak at the drain tube today do they don't try and blame it on that.
How'd things turn out?

I feel your pain...having my own issues with axle seals, on a MY04 WRX.
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:50 PM   #6
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Haven't been back under the car to see how much of the oil was from the turbo oil drain leak, which was pretty good size.
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Old 02-07-2018, 12:50 PM   #7
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Default Front axle leaking at Seal

Hey guys new to this forum. Posting because i'm at a loss on how to stop my leak from my driver side front axle seal. I've replaced the axle seal after I had noticed a slight leak, only to find that the leak had gotten worse. Since they were aftermarket seals I decided to try Subaru seals, and again the leak got worse. I'm almost positive the seal was not damaged using proper lubrication and installation procedure. Is there something I am missing? I heard something from someone that if I can shake my axle while in place that I have a bad bushing inside the trans, causing the seal to leak. Does anyone know anything about that? How to replace it? Any help would be great. To my knowledge, car is original motor and trans.
SUBARU IMPREZA RS WAGON 200,000 miles
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:39 AM   #8
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Default Persistent Seal Leaking SOLVED

I've run a couple of hundred miles, and leaking has
stopped--after my third seal installation.

This applies to an MY04 WRX, drivers front
differential axle seal, where seal is installed
from outside, without unscrewing the bearing
retainer/"sundial". On my differential case,
there is no 'stop' for the seal--it will drive all
the way to the bearing itself.

What Worked: driving seal into differential
case, only until outer edge of seal (hard
rim, not flexy debris skirt) was approximately
flush with differential case surface.


On previous two attempts, I drove the seal
deeper--and leaking continued.
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:25 AM   #9
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Thanks for the reply. Itís been approximately 800 miles since Iíve installed the Subaru seal. The leak is still persistent losing quite a bit of fluid. I did press the seal in from the outside flush with the rim, using the special tool.
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Old 02-09-2018, 12:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchw12 View Post
Thanks for the reply. Itís been approximately 800 miles since Iíve installed the Subaru seal. The leak is still persistent losing quite a bit of fluid. I did press the seal in from the outside flush with the rim, using the special tool.
Is your WRX post August 31, 2003 (the change over
date for axle & bearing retainer design) production?

Are you getting the axle deep enough into differential
for the axle seal surface to contact the seal lips?

Last edited by WRXRgr; 02-09-2018 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXRgr View Post
Is your WRX post August 31, 2003 (the change over
date for axle & bearing retainer design) production?

Are you getting the axle deep enough into differential
for the axle seal surface to contact the seal lips?
Did you get the proper seal in the proper side? They are directional (one left/one right) so if you get them reversed they can continue to leak. Also be sure it is the seal leaking and not the o-ring between the bearing carrier (sundial) and the case.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
Did you get the proper seal in the proper side? They are directional (one left/one right) so if you get them reversed they can continue to leak. Also be sure it is the seal leaking and not the o-ring between the bearing carrier (sundial) and the case.
I'm assuming they have wiper ridges in the inner ID of the seal (where the seal contacts the shaft OD). This would scrape oil off the shaft and direct it back into the trans?
So, if you pull a seal, check the ridge direction, think of which way the shaft it turning and do the ridges (on an angle not quite parallel to the shaft centerline) wipe oil into or out of the trans.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
I'm assuming they have wiper ridges in the inner ID of the seal (where the seal contacts the shaft OD). This would scrape oil off the shaft and direct it back into the trans?
So, if you pull a seal, check the ridge direction, think of which way the shaft it turning and do the ridges (on an angle not quite parallel to the shaft centerline) wipe oil into or out of the trans.
Yep, they have directional ridges but I think it is for reinforcement not wiping because they are out side the contact point. Heck I never remember which way they point. The Subaru part label does not state which is right or left. Late model numbers aren't odd/even. My parts guy marks them for me and I compare what comes out when it's a car I know hasn't been into yet. Yeah, I should know better but I am old and can't remember everything like I used to.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
Yep, they have directional ridges but I think it is for reinforcement not wiping because they are out side the contact point. Heck I never remember which way they point. The Subaru part label does not state which is right or left. Late model numbers aren't odd/even. My parts guy marks them for me and I compare what comes out when it's a car I know hasn't been into yet. Yeah, I should know better but I am old and can't remember everything like I used to.
OK, i stand by my guess then. Look at a left vs. right, think of the shaft spin direction, then think which "ridge angle" forces the oil film back in.
Beyond that, I can't think of anything else.

Not trying to disagree or "be smart", just trying to learn and possibly help others.


As always EB, I appreciate your input.
You have access to info most of us don't.
You have a lot of "day to day" exposure to things some of may never see.

Thanks again for you help on this forum.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:38 AM   #15
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The diagonal marks are on the inside of the 'skirt'
that leads to innermost sealing lip...if that makes
any sense. Think of half of the tread on a directional
tread tire...film of oil on rotating shaft flows down toward
skirt, oil hits 'diagonal speed bumps' on skirt, and tends
to get pushed back toward centerline of differential.

They might help. How much, who knows.

One interesting thing: as I was seating Seal Attempt #3,
I noticed a spring (the circular tension spring that sits
on backside of seal) laying up against the diff output
bearing. I fished it out and took a quick look at the
seal I'd just removed (Seal Attempt #2), and saw no
spring--and assumed the spring was from #2, and
#3's spring was therefore, still intact.

I pressed #3 on in, and finished the rest of the job.
No leaks after short drive, and sitting overnite...
no leaks after a hundred miles of interstate runs,
yay, success!.

I finally took a look at Seal #2, and realized--it still
had it's spring! I found the Subaru OEM factory seal,
and it still has it's spring...

So I've got about 150 miles on Seal #3, with no spring,
and no leaks. Not sure what to conclude from that, but
there it is.
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
Yep, they have directional ridges but I think it is for reinforcement not wiping because they are out side the contact point. Heck I never remember which way they point.
They are oil wipes - as Charlie and others stated, think of which way the oil will be forced when the axle rotates (unless you spend the majority of your time in reverse).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
The Subaru part label does not state which is right or left.
Yes they do - look at the images on Subaru's parts site and it will show the correct p/n on each side. If you've removed them from the bags or bought the full transmission seal kit - you need to think of the wipe ridges like screw threads during install. Installed on the wrong side, they will effectively pump oil OUT of the case.

This is more of a 6MT thing, but be aware of changes between seals during stub to one-piece axle designs. Stub axles use a flat faced seal while one-piece axles use a flared face.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
They are oil wipes - as Charlie and others stated, think of which way the oil will be forced when the axle rotates (unless you spend the majority of your time in reverse).



Yes they do - look at the images on Subaru's parts site and it will show the correct p/n on each side. If you've removed them from the bags or bought the full transmission seal kit - you need to think of the wipe ridges like screw threads during install. Installed on the wrong side, they will effectively pump oil OUT of the case.

This is more of a 6MT thing, but be aware of changes between seals during stub to one-piece axle designs. Stub axles use a flat faced seal while one-piece axles use a flared face.
Yes for flared seals the catalog indicates which side - the bag for the seals does not. You have to check the ridges or refer to the catalog to be sure you install them correctly. It apparently is not that easy because I have replaced many seals that were installed in the wrong side.

In this thread we are discussing a 2017 STI - the front diff axle seals (806735290 and 806735300) have flare faced seals under the above part numbers. Ironically ALL late model transmissions use the exact same left and right seal - 5 and 6 MT split case, 6 speed end loader case, Gen-1 and Gen-2 CVT including Gen-2 HT CVT.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
Yes for flared seals the catalog indicates which side - the bag for the seals does not. You have to check the ridges or refer to the catalog to be sure you install them correctly. It apparently is not that easy because I have replaced many seals that were installed in the wrong side.

In this thread we are discussing a 2017 STI - the front diff axle seals (806735290 and 806735300) have flare faced seals under the above part numbers. Ironically ALL late model transmissions use the exact same left and right seal - 5 and 6 MT split case, 6 speed end loader case, Gen-1 and Gen-2 CVT including Gen-2 HT CVT.
Oh great, just when we thought we sorta had a handle on which seal went where and how to tell the difference, you screw it up with factory info.....
Sheesh......



Frikkin engineers at Subaru......

Or, did I misread your post, and what you're stating is that many years/ models use the same seals as a '17 STi?

Last edited by Charlie-III; 02-11-2018 at 08:17 AM. Reason: Added last question
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:43 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
In this thread we are discussing a 2017 STI - the front diff axle seals (806735290 and 806735300) have flare faced seals under the above part numbers. Ironically ALL late model transmissions use the exact same left and right seal - 5 and 6 MT split case, 6 speed end loader case, Gen-1 and Gen-2 CVT including Gen-2 HT CVT.
Not sure I followed that, but those two numbers are also
"correct" for a MY04 WRX, made after 31 Aug 2003.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:40 AM   #20
Elbert Bass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Oh great, just when we thought we sorta had a handle on which seal went where and how to tell the difference, you screw it up with factory info.....
Sheesh......



Frikkin engineers at Subaru......

Or, did I misread your post, and what you're stating is that many years/ models use the same seals as a '17 STi?
Yes and no - I'm not going to check EVERY year's catalog to be sure. I only searched ALL 2017 models and they are the same. I know for a fact ALL CVTs (except Justy) use the same seals.

Knowing Subaru and their penchant and economy for 1-part-does-it-all I might guess if the seal can be installed externally - it probably is those two numbers. And yes, as mentioned you can push them right into the case, there is no lip on the case. Use Subaru 18675AA000 installer.
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
Yes and no - I'm not going to check EVERY year's catalog to be sure. I only searched ALL 2017 models and they are the same. I know for a fact ALL CVTs (except Justy) use the same seals.

Knowing Subaru and their penchant and economy for 1-part-does-it-all I might guess if the seal can be installed externally - it probably is those two numbers. And yes, as mentioned you can push them right into the case, there is no lip on the case. Use Subaru 18675AA000 installer.
Well yes, Subaru likes to reuse stuff (parts and electrical circuits) over years and models.
Part of the, "Subaru parts, think Legos!" Comment that floats around, which is basically true.

Most seals, on Subaru, I deal with can be overdriven into their pocket, there is no "lip" to prevent this.
The only "lip" is typically the bottom of the bore, so either noting how deep the existing seal is before swapping, or having a spec/description on how far to drive it, guessing may be incorrect.

Thanks again for info.
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Old 02-11-2018, 04:13 PM   #22
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Hey guys. Iím sure the axle is in far enough and reaching the sealing surface. Itís in as far as it will go and matches the other side which isnít leaking.....(greasy but not dripping). Iím also aware they are directional. I picked up both seals at Subaru which had two different part numbers and the guy wrote on each which side they were. Iím also almost positive that itís coming from the seal and not the sundial. I will confirm that shortly. I would also like to bring up my original question again, if anyone knows...is there a bushing inside that could be worn down allowing my axle to move more than it should causing the seal to leak?
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Old 02-11-2018, 04:18 PM   #23
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Hello - OP here - member me? lol..

The shop who did my synchros replaced the leaky seal. This thread got away from me, so - I have nothing else to add.
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