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Old 09-10-2017, 02:19 PM   #76
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
I don't have this issue, but I have read the whole thread.

I don't think the quoted text is correct when going to a faster rack ratio. You are now turning the steering wheel LESS for a given side loading, thus NOT understeering.
If you went to a slower rack ratio, then you would need more steering angle to achieve a given side loading, thus the VDC would guess understeer.

With ANY rack ratio, assuming the alignment is correct, the 4 wheels will always have different speeds since that is based on track, wheelbase and turn radius.

I can see damaged sensors being an issue.
I can see worn wheel bearings being an issue.
I can see low tire pressures being an issue.
I can see loose/worn suspension bits being an issue.
I can see needing to center the SAS.

I don't have your magic bullet to resolve the issue, just thinking on things that may have been overlooked.
Seeing this thread pop up again and I have already replied, a new thought.
I think it's a programming issue, my wife may shoot me.......
I think everyone is on the ragged edge of what the VDC programming allows.
Getting the steering sensor calibrated, assuming the front alignment is within spec, maybe the VDC is such that it senses too much steering angle vs. ABS sensors and trips the VDC or TCS.
Have everything perfect, you are on the edge.
Have a little slop in the steering system, which includes the SAS being a little off, the nannys kick in.

Just my thought.

Curious to see where this goes.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:42 AM   #77
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Well, today I had the allignment fixed and also I went to the local Subaru dealership to get the codes read. The error code is C0017 and when it's erased it instantly came back again.

This particular code indicates an issue with the steering angle sensor. When attached to the Subaru Connect Monitor it showed that the sensor doesn't notice any steering angle at all so teaching it the 'zero point' wasn't possible.

I really don't know what to do... I can't imagine that we broke de sensor during the install of the new rack. A few weeks ago the OEM steering wheel was replaced by a GT Spec one; initially this caused a VDC error but after restarting the car this error didn't come back. And the error didn't come back for weeks.

Do you guys have any advice on what to do next? The most logical next step is to replace the sensor but it costs around $500 so I need to be sure this is the problem. This might be an expensive gamble!
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:29 PM   #78
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Yep, the SAS is dead and it's most likely from when you replaced the steering wheel.

The steering rack just made the issue more pronounced making it just outside of the acceptable range.

I installed a DAMD steering wheel, and a few months later, my steering rack, and have never had any VDC issues at all. It's definitely an install issue.
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Old 09-16-2017, 02:02 AM   #79
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Hi all,

Thought I'd chime in and say I had the VDC kicking in during tight turns on my AUDM MY12 Forester with a MY15 STI rack swapped in.

I damaged my angle sensor during install and after replacing had the VDC issue, which I investigated and solved by copying Chinyue's idea to use an Arduino to scale up the signal which I've documented if anyone was interested in doing it themselves.

You can find some information at https://github.com/Phrewfuf/sas-scaler and further discussion/details by visiting the OzFoz forum. If there's interest I can upload the details here directly.

I've been driving for 6 months on the Arduino and it hasn't skipped a beat.
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:05 AM   #80
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Hi guys,

I just wanted to let you all know that my error messages were caused by a broken steering angle sensor (just as Noximus expected). Yesterday I replaced the sensor and the error code (C0071) disappeared directly.

It's still a bit unclear what caused the sensor to break. A few weeks before installing de 2015 steering rack I installed a GT Spec steering wheel and maybey the sensor was damaged while removing the OEM steering wheel. Another possibility is that I've applied too much force when I tried to remove the knuckle that connects the rack with the steering column. Afterwards someone told me this needs to be done really gently while I had to apply quite some force.

Anyway, everything works great now and I'm really happy with the car's new handling. Steering is much more direct and also a bit heavier which gives me more confidence. IT was definately worth the money and the work!

Ow and a tip: if you also break the steering angle sensor it isn't always necessary to buy a new one. I was able to buy a used one from a Legacy '08 diesel which engine was broken. I understood this sensor is installed in the following models so finding a good used one is very well possible:

- Forester >= MY08 & <= MY13
- WRX >= MY08 & <= MY14
- Legacy >= MY06 & <=MY08
- Impreza hatch >= MY07 & <= MY08

Thanks for your help!
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Old 10-23-2017, 07:30 AM   #81
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Hey guys, just checking it to see if this was ever solved? I'm still turning traction control off ever since I installed the rack. I have no error messages. Just have the VDC kicking in around corners.

Please enlighten me if there is a guaranteed 100% fix. lol
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:16 PM   #82
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Hi, new to this (typed screenname too fast; hopefully there's a way to add an "L" at some point

I had almost the exact same issues after a buddy of mine slammed his car into my front left tire causing the steering wheel to then be turned 45 degrees in order to drive straight; ie brakes would randomly kick in to "correct" steer in certain situations. Solution (besides cussing my buddy out) was to get an alignment that included correcting steering wheel angle. All problems then went away. Sooo it sounds like steering angle sensor is highly suspect. Just curious if OP used seat belts to keep steering wheel from turning while installing new rack ? (I'm in the process of installing the '15 rack myself & spotted that that is a necessity). The reason it's important I would guess is that the steering wheel could potentially be turned a full 360 degrees while the rack is off and it would "look" like it was centered while the computer thought otherwise? Just a thought.
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:38 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hired-goon View Post
Hi all,

Thought I'd chime in and say I had the VDC kicking in during tight turns on my AUDM MY12 Forester with a MY15 STI rack swapped in.

I damaged my angle sensor during install and after replacing had the VDC issue, which I investigated and solved by copying Chinyue's idea to use an Arduino to scale up the signal which I've documented if anyone was interested in doing it themselves.

You can find some information at https://github.com/Phrewfuf/sas-scaler and further discussion/details by visiting the OzFoz forum. If there's interest I can upload the details here directly.

I've been driving for 6 months on the Arduino and it hasn't skipped a beat.
Hi Hired-Goon.

I hope you might be able to help me with a small thing - I have a Subaru with Quick Steering Rack Swap and have started the Arduino R3 project to help the VDC issue, and have all the bits, and have used your program on the R3.

I have a couple of small questions about your set up as I have been observing the images you posted.

Firstly, Can you tell me how exactly you connected the Buzzer to the arduino as the images dont quite make that clear. I have basic idea of where to connect a Buzzer to the R3, but I was wondering how you did it?

Thank you so much.
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:29 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diavlo1984 View Post
Hi Hired-Goon.

I hope you might be able to help me with a small thing - I have a Subaru with Quick Steering Rack Swap and have started the Arduino R3 project to help the VDC issue, and have all the bits, and have used your program on the R3.

I have a couple of small questions about your set up as I have been observing the images you posted.

Firstly, Can you tell me how exactly you connected the Buzzer to the arduino as the images dont quite make that clear. I have basic idea of where to connect a Buzzer to the R3, but I was wondering how you did it?

Thank you so much.
Private message would probably get a faster answer
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:50 PM   #85
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Bringing this thread back alive.. my 12 STI rack is pretty much gone and I want to replace it with the newer rack. After reading this entire thread, it seems like the VDC issue is quite common. I don’t want to go through all that nonsense, so what does everyone recommend? Being very careful not to break the SAS during install? Do I have to get an alignment done at the dealership vs an average joe alignment shop to reprogram?
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Old 10-01-2019, 10:43 PM   #86
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It's "quite common" among people who did their own install, didn't do their alignment, didn't align their teeth/spindle properly, didn't secure the wheel, went to a shop not familiar with Subarus, did an alignment but didn't reset the SSM, had previously bad steering sensor, bad abs sensor, etc.. I can keep going.

Get it done by a dealer or a Subaru shop, or download the FSM and follow the instructions to the letter.
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Old 10-03-2019, 03:40 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noximus View Post
It's "quite common" among people who did their own install, didn't do their alignment, didn't align their teeth/spindle properly, didn't secure the wheel, went to a shop not familiar with Subarus, did an alignment but didn't reset the SSM, had previously bad steering sensor, bad abs sensor, etc.. I can keep going.

Get it done by a dealer or a Subaru shop, or download the FSM and follow the instructions to the letter.
Thanks for the response mate. I think I’m just going to pay the $300 for my local Subaru tuner to do the install. Saves me the headache. Plus if something is wrong I’ll just come back to them lol. When I get the alignment, do normal alignment shops always reset the SSM or do you have to mention it to them? Or is it better just to go to Subaru for alignment.
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Old 10-11-2019, 01:13 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bickz View Post
Thanks for the response mate. I think I’m just going to pay the $300 for my local Subaru tuner to do the install. Saves me the headache. Plus if something is wrong I’ll just come back to them lol. When I get the alignment, do normal alignment shops always reset the SSM or do you have to mention it to them? Or is it better just to go to Subaru for alignment.
I can't say if it's normal, but it is part of the alignment procedure Subarus.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:05 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KManZ View Post
So, an update...

I dropped my car off at a tuner in my area to have them try and diagnose the issue. They ran the car and took readings using the SSM. From what they told me, the SAS had to be reprogrammed because the car was still reading the old ratio. Basically, at full lock, the SAS reported that the wheels were facing 160 degrees.

Now, I thought that the SAS had been reprogrammed the last time I took it in, but I think they only recentered it. The tech basically told me that they ran a program (I assume using the SSM) that had them turn the wheel full lock, then opposite lock, and then points in between until the SAS picked up the turn radius.

- Did this fix the problem? I haven't gotten enough seat time to make a full determination, but I took some hard turns, full throttle, and there was no intrusion by TC/VDC. That's fantastic, for sure!

- On the same token, I can get the system to step in if I start a corner at speed, and then lift off midway. Car bogs down, feels like I'm driving through quicksand, headlights slightly dim. I passed this on to the tech, and he suggests that this is normal behavior because the car senses that I am lifting off in a corner and it's trying to compensate for the subsequent weight transfer. AKA, it's preventing me from supposedly spinning out.

I'm going to take the car back one more time and have them take one more look at this just to verify that this is normal. It probably is, but since I'm not a pro race driver, I don't know exactly what is within "normal" behavior. If it is, I'll report back.

EDIT: took the car back in for a follow-up, and the verdict is that the problem has been resolved. So I'll go out on a limb here and say that if you haven't done so yet, have someone reprogram the Steering Angle Sensor using the Subaru Select Monitor (SSM). I thought it had been done before, but apparently it had not.

Car handles like it should, feels great. Now I know when the nannies will kick in, so there is that.
Kman

I just last week upgraded my 2013 STI to the new 2015 rack.....

Before we installed we tried to find the center of the rack and it was difficult because there is no "detent" like other racks I have done. It comes shipped in the box all the way one direction.

So we centered it as best we could, installed the rack and when I first turned it on I of course got the dash lights.

When driving straight it was maybe 1/4 turn off.


So I took it to my buddies shop put it on an alignment rack straightened the wheels up and then disconnected the steering coupler and straightened the steering wheel.

He then completed the alignment.

After the alignment or at the end of the alignment their alignment machine has you plug into the OBDII port and zero the sensor which it did just fine and the lights went out.

After driving it a few days I too hit a couple 90 degree turns at about 35-40 with throttle lifted and the outside wheel would brake.

Still no check lights.

I did the headlight switch trip reset sequence to get the codes and I have a C0071 in ABS/VDC memory.

I am going to take it to the dealer and see if they can clear it and then do what you reported by having them recalibrate with the Subaru Select Monitor.

Maybe just zeroing it at the alignment shop doesn't quite reset it or calibrate it fully.

I will report back.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:32 PM   #90
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Also the Factory Service Manual tells you to remove the steering wheel and adjust roll center after installing the rack......

15) Lower the vehicle.
16) Remove the steering wheel. <Ref. to PS-13, REMOVAL, Steering Wheel.>
17) Align the center position of the roll connector. <Ref. to AB-28, ADJUSTMENT, Roll Connector.> 18) Install the steering wheel. <Ref. to PS-13, IN- STALLATION, Steering Wheel.>
19) Connect the battery ground terminal.
20) Pour fluid into the oil tank, and bleed air. <Ref. to PS-51, Power Steering Fluid.>
21) Check for fluid leaks.
22) Check the fluid level in oil tank.

CAUTION:
***8226; Do not rotate the roll connector to more than the specified number of turns. Otherwise, the roll connector internal wire may be broken.
***8226; When determining the end stop, rotate the connector slowly without applying excessive force. Applying excessive force at the end stop may break the internal wire.
1) Check that front wheels are positioned in straight ahead direction.
2) Turn the roll connector pin (A) clockwise until it stops.
3) Turn the roll connector pins (A) approx. 3.25 turns in the counterclockwise direction until "^ " marks are aligned.

Last edited by gregnauman; 10-16-2019 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:51 PM   #91
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Also this from another thread from a Subaru Mechanic I think.....


I got a car in yesterday with the described error lights. Scanner pulled a c0071. Data link showed 0° in all positions so I replaced the SAS. Lights went away and sensor was reading correctly. However, when turned all the way right, lights came back. Rechecked installation, reinitialized the zero angle and yaw. Same errors when turned all the way right. Data link showed a 110° deference between lock right and lock left. Installed another sensor and found same readings. Just before i pulled ALL my hair out I raised the vehicle and found the rack and pinion to have been centered incorrectly.
So... My advice and an easy way to check this is center your steering wheel. Verify the wheels are straight at the 0° mark, then turn the wheel all the way left counting the rotations. Center again and go right. Are they the same number of rotations from center to lock both ways? If not check your rack for proper centering (count the visible threads on both ends)
Hopefully this will help at least a few of you
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Old 10-23-2019, 03:23 PM   #92
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My appointment is this Friday with a couple subaru mechanic buddies of mine.

Should be able to get it resolved.

For the record mine only kicks in right front VDC on a left hand abrupt turn.

On a right hand turn it doesn't do it.

My guess steering angle sensor is off just enough.

Im also going to have them use the select monitor and check to make sure the range of my rack is dead center left to right.

Counting the turns of the wheel it seems close but it might be off just a hair still left vs right
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:04 PM   #93
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Ok guys here is my update after being at the dealer today and using the Subaru Select Monitor with my Subaru Mechanic buddy.
I was back in the shop and we were working together on this issue so was able to watch the SSM procedure etc.


After about 3 weeks of driving I will note that I still had a C0071 code in the Memory. Supposedly it should reset after a certain amount of key cycles.

So we first cleared the code which went fine.

We then looked at the data coming from the Steering angle Sensor.

It would read around 362 degrees one direction and about 358 degrees in the other direction. We were able to re-zero straight ahead which is 0 degrees.

We attempted to turn the wheel slightly off center and re-zero to get rid of this approx 4 degree difference to no avail. It always came back to zero was zero.

We pulled the steering wheel and checked the indicator arrows to make sure the Roll switch and the Steering Angle sensor was aligned OK and it was. So when we got the rack in and the steering was off a bit before we did the alignment we centered the wheel by disconnecting the column coupler from the rack. This was obviously good to do cause that allowed our SAS marks to be properly aligned.

So long story short after zeroing the sensor and checking that it worked fine full range and that the sensor marks lined up perfect I drove the car.

I never got any check engine lights, or any lights for that matter and I just checked using the light switch and odo buttons and still no codes. All good there.


So I went to the road where i could get the VDC to actuate the right front brake and it did in fact brake the right front wheel just as it did before.


IMHO I am not sure that at this spot in the road going 35-40 MPH with slight throttle or no throttle the VDC is working as it should.

As far as I can tell it quite possibly is doing what it is supposed to do. I will note I haven't been able to get the VDC to brake the left front wheel when turning right hard but Im not sure I am turning it that direction as hard.

Im going to do some more research but at this point I am not too worried about it.


I would be interested to know exactly what KManZ's shop did to his car but without asking them we are still left in the dark.

We didn't see anywhere in the subaru select monitor to turn to various points. We did full lock each direction and it pretty much read 360 degrees both ways.

I guess what we need to find out now is if there is a way as KManz stated to calibrate it by using full lock in either direction and then other points in the arc.

For those that don't have them here is a link to the factory service manuals which are close but not fully accurate as far as pictures of the steering angle sensor. The manual he had at the dealer showed a picture of exactly what my car had. I guess there was an older version and a newer version and for some reason my 2013 and 2014 manuals still had the older version picture.


Here is the picture of the correct SAS for a 2013-2014 STI
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1851862.../shares/899125

http://www.wrxinfo.com/service_manuals/

Last edited by gregnauman; 10-25-2019 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 10-25-2019, 04:17 PM   #94
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Did some more digging and the guys tell me no way in the Subaru Select Monitor to calibrate multiple points so I am not sure what KManz shop did.

Only thing we saw was a way to re-zero center and then check the data from zero to lock each direction left and right.

I will say it seems to be working showing the degrees OK.

So not sure........Stumped a bit
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Old 10-30-2019, 09:06 PM   #95
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I actually think all is well now.

Car seems to be working as it should.

If we use the monitor and rotate left and right from center the angle sensor shows about 360 each direction.

The spec in the service Manual is 5*
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Old 11-02-2019, 09:44 AM   #96
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Default Swapped in a 2015 steering rack... now chasing problems

Well I was on a sweeping turn today coming out of a gas station area off the turnpike. Going about 40 throttle lifted and my right front brake actuated again.

Only the right front has ever done this turning left. Haven’t experienced the left front doing it turning right

I really have no idea why and the only change was the rack.

I have used the SSM and no codes etc.
The angle sensor seems fine.


So I guess add me to the list of those having some VDC issues with this rack swap.

If anyone has any updated ideas let me know.
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Old 05-19-2020, 06:11 AM   #97
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This question has recently been raised on Scoobynet and as far as I can see there are a few issues.


1) Quicker rack means output from Steering angle sensor will be different.



2) VDC units are different between MY08-14 and MY15 onwards


MY08-14 has an external Yaw rate and lateral G sensor ; MY15 onwards it's an integral part of the VDCCM.


The models also have different part numbers for their Steering angle sensors. (MY08-27549AG010 MY15-27549AL000)



3) The VDCCM's are programmable and when changing parts need the Applied Model code of the vehicle to be verified.


What actual bearing this may have on the problems seen, who knows.

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Old 05-19-2020, 08:01 AM   #98
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I’m not sure if you have read through this thread or the many others but many many people have done the swap with no issues.

Only a few of us have had the problems I recently described.

I’m also not convinced that I did not damage something during my install because just last week I was turning the steering wheel back and forth in my garage putting mud flaps on and I got a can bus code and a steering angle sensor code.
This after driving it for months with no issues.

I’m getting it checked out as we speak at the subaru dealer so I will report back what they find with the select monitor.

I really only think the issue if anything is the steering angle sensor but even it is a pulse counter I believe and it counts after being zeroed left to right as we proved using a select monitor.

One thing I am thinking is the spec for left to right tolerance is 5 degrees and if it is not spot on I think it will think it’s off.
In other words I think the tolerance has to be closer than 5 if you swap the rack in.

The rack is a mechanical device so I don’t think the VDC etc etc in the 15 up matters.
I know the response would be well it’s a quicker ratio but the angle sensor is still counting OK left to right once zeroed. If it does not count correctly or the tolerance is off it will kick a code. C0071

While in my garage this week I got a C0071, C0047, C0057 which are all CANBUS and steering angle sensor related.

I’ll let everyone know what I find out in the coming weeks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don1952 View Post
This question has recently been raised on Scoobynet and as far as I can see there are a few issues.


1) Quicker rack means output from Steering angle sensor will be different.



2) VDC units are different between MY08-14 and MY15 onwards


MY08-14 has an external Yaw rate and lateral G sensor ; MY15 onwards it's an integral part of the VDCCM.


The models also have different part numbers for their Steering angle sensors. (MY08-27549AG010 MY15-27549AL000)



3) The VDCCM's are programmable and when changing parts need the Applied Model code of the vehicle to be verified.


What actual bearing this may have on the problems seen, who knows.

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Old 05-19-2020, 08:03 AM   #99
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BTW do you have a link for the scoobynet thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don1952 View Post
This question has recently been raised on Scoobynet and as far as I can see there are a few issues.


1) Quicker rack means output from Steering angle sensor will be different.



2) VDC units are different between MY08-14 and MY15 onwards


MY08-14 has an external Yaw rate and lateral G sensor ; MY15 onwards it's an integral part of the VDCCM.


The models also have different part numbers for their Steering angle sensors. (MY08-27549AG010 MY15-27549AL000)



3) The VDCCM's are programmable and when changing parts need the Applied Model code of the vehicle to be verified.


What actual bearing this may have on the problems seen, who knows.

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Old 05-19-2020, 08:29 AM   #100
Don1952
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MY11 WRX STi Sedan
Obsidian Black Pearl

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It kicks off at about post#17971 of this thread which should be somewhere here (continuously scrolling feature)



https://www.scoobynet.com/763923-08-...lves-1798.html


I've just added the VDC adjustment procedure for both models
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