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Old 04-25-2006, 08:13 PM   #1
scooby-stu
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Default My set-up is proving hard to tune :(

Well after a long hall of having a built 2.5 block and JDM heads it seems as though this may not be the perfect set-up for cali pump gas. I had it tuned the other day and the car was getting detonation at fairly low boost about 13 psi and the JDM ECU took a lot of tameing due to its design for higher octane gas. I wanted to know if anyone else has had this issue and how they over come it. The dish volume on the heads is way smaler than the US sti heads and maybe this is a contributing factor? Also my tuner was comparing maps and told me that the differenc between the JDM sti ECU and the US are huge The cam timing was double and the ignition timeing was extreemly aggressive.

The problem i am also faceing is that i have a 03 wrx harness and i need the JDM ECU to be able to use the AVCS or i will need an after market stand alone system.

That is one option but another would be to run 100 octane fulltime with my car. I only use it on weekends but i would need to know every high octane gas station in socal But would be able to use the JDM ECU to its ull advantage. One other thing i found out was that i have the ability to have 2 maps on this ECU and change them via the defroster button but that maybe a bit too extreem swtiching from 2 very different maps.

So anyone who has any experience with theese issues or any helpful suggestions wold be great thanks
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:24 PM   #2
Capt Crunch
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reflash your ECU to handle the lower octane gas, and then run a UTEC on top for the top end.
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:36 PM   #3
scooby-stu
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To be quite honest with you King-pin did that for me and i am sure that was a contributing factor for an engine failure.

The reason why i know this is becuase when the new engine was installed there was det going on with the flashed ECU staight away. To access the ECU to see what was going on was impossible as king-p1in would be the only ones to access that.
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Old 04-25-2006, 10:07 PM   #4
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What headhaskets did you use? Stock 2.5 headgaskets will give you very high CR....i have heard around 9.0:1. I had a 2.5 w/V7 heads but with a small turbo. I was running a re-flashed JDM ecu. You can get just the AVCS harness from http://www.iaperformance.com/
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Old 04-25-2006, 11:00 PM   #5
scooby-stu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjl1614
What headhaskets did you use? Stock 2.5 headgaskets will give you very high CR....i have heard around 9.0:1. I had a 2.5 w/V7 heads but with a small turbo. I was running a re-flashed JDM ecu. You can get just the AVCS harness from http://www.iaperformance.com/
I believe we are using the stock gasket and we had the pistons custom made for a 8.5-1 compression ratio. I have the ia performance harness and all that is done. The ECU i'm running is a RA spec c and the tuner told me the ECU is very very different than the US STI as far as capabilaties. I really am leaning towards 100 octane for an awsome set-up but pricey
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Old 04-25-2006, 11:37 PM   #6
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Buy a 5 gallons of Torco! Much cheaper and easier than using 100 octane. 1 can ($8) on a tank of 91 will get you to the 100 octane or so... PDX tuning uses it all the time!
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Old 04-26-2006, 10:27 AM   #7
Token-Negro
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Maybe look into a WI system to help out the engine.
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Old 04-26-2006, 10:28 AM   #8
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on a side not i would manualy check th CR to make sure you are dealing with correct numbers
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Old 04-26-2006, 07:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Token-Negro
Maybe look into a WI system to help out the engine.
+2 maybe 50/50 meth/water too
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Old 04-26-2006, 10:18 PM   #10
scooby-stu
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I have the water injection (aquamist) but to be honest i think the problem is with the JDM ECU. For it to be remapped for 91 octane gas it takes away soo much of the potential of the set-up. If it were 94 octane or a different ECU it would be a total different story.

The Ver8 JDM Motor was never designed for the US market nor was the ECU so i think to hang onto something good i will have to use race fuel. 100 octane or so.

Shes going on the Dyno tomorrow so i'll post more then.

But i think if i did this all over again it would be US sti heads ported and maybe upgraded valvetrain later
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Old 04-26-2006, 11:04 PM   #11
reddevil
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Seriously, try the Torco. ALOT cheaper than race gas, and it does work
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Old 04-26-2006, 11:51 PM   #12
scooby-stu
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Will it give an exact or near octane rating with a full tank of gas? If so then i'm sure thats a good way to go
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Old 04-27-2006, 02:08 AM   #13
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I am typing this off the can. If you doj't believe the results, call PDX Tuning,.


Treatment ratio with 32 oz of Accelerator

-97 min octane treats 20 gallons of 93 gas

-104 min octain treat 10 gallon of 93 gas

107- min octane treat 5 gallon of 93 gas
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Old 04-27-2006, 07:26 PM   #14
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Interesting i,ll look into after the tune thanks
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Old 04-30-2006, 12:39 AM   #15
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Well the car was back on the dyno with the 100 octane and yet again more problems. Were having issues with either the boost controller, or the internal gate(green).
We made about 335 WHP and 340 tourque @ 19 psi. hopefully we will hit 350-and 400 when this probs sorted. Please chime in if theses results dont look good for 19 psi.

Thanks Stu
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Old 04-30-2006, 01:15 AM   #16
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I have a 2.5 with AVCS heads and I went with the Hydra for EM. I'm not saying your problem is EM related but I've been using/tuning the Hydra since Aug. 2004 and haven't had a problem. It controls the AVCS and I'm using my 02 WRX wiring Harness, 02 cam sensor, and my own AVCS wiring. Your problem could be a hundred things. When it comes to EM and a hybird or big turbo setup I think a standalone is needed. The bad thing about asking people about EM is they always seem to tell you what they have (consumer) or sell (vendor) is the best. I would think that using 100oct to fight det at 13psi is a band aid. I may have overlook it, but who is tuning your car. Also, this should probably be in the EM/tuning forum.
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Old 04-30-2006, 02:33 AM   #17
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Why not go with a standalone engine management and do a full retune? I have Autronic SM4 on my setup right now and it's much easier than trying to get a JDM ecu to work on a US car...
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Old 04-30-2006, 02:52 AM   #18
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jtanoyo1, please tell more about the Autronic SM4. This can be dyno tuned by anybody? I have a JDM LGT motor in my USDM WRX and need something to control the AVCS. Also, the website would not list a price, how much did this cost you?
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Old 04-30-2006, 12:00 PM   #19
scooby-stu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CK02WRX
I have a 2.5 with AVCS heads and I went with the Hydra for EM. I'm not saying your problem is EM related but I've been using/tuning the Hydra since Aug. 2004 and haven't had a problem. It controls the AVCS and I'm using my 02 WRX wiring Harness, 02 cam sensor, and my own AVCS wiring. Your problem could be a hundred things. When it comes to EM and a hybird or big turbo setup I think a standalone is needed. The bad thing about asking people about EM is they always seem to tell you what they have (consumer) or sell (vendor) is the best. I would think that using 100oct to fight det at 13psi is a band aid. I may have overlook it, but who is tuning your car. Also, this should probably be in the EM/tuning forum.

The tuner i'm using is Sam @GT motorsports very nice guy and he has a lot of experience on the dyno, tuning. But as for experience tuning a JDM ecu im sure this is his first time.
Also when i was having this engine built i spoke to clarke turner (kingpin) and he advisewd me to keep the compression down to around 8.0-1. Clarke had gone with this set-up but had higher compression and also told me he found it difficult to tune on pump gas. So this could well be a built motor issue. Maybe the dish volume on the 2 liter head versus the 2.5 is creating issues or will @ 8.5-1 and over?
I also mentioned the Hydra to my tuner and we both decided we need to tule everything else out ie. Turbo wastegate, boost controller, ECU. However all i can say is Sam is takeing care of me
I should have some more info tomorrow
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Old 04-30-2006, 06:27 PM   #20
CK02WRX
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There are more than a few guys running those heads with the built 2.5. Hopefully some of them can chime in and give their experience with how their pump gas tunes went. You'll eventually want a standalone but hopefully you can get it figured out without having to spend too much. Good Luck.

Last edited by CK02WRX; 04-30-2006 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 04-30-2006, 07:17 PM   #21
scooby-stu
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Yep standalone is the way to go and when i can get together $1800
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Old 05-01-2006, 07:59 AM   #22
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yea run alky injection (no water just alky) (methyl alcohol) you up the ron and cool the charge down stopping your det
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Old 05-03-2006, 04:46 PM   #23
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I have tuned many similar engine combinations and they don't present much of a problem. The bottom line is that experience tuning high compression/high HP setups goes a long way to getting the tune right. A base map isn't going to cut it. Don't be suprised to see 5 -10 degrees less timing under boost. Since the higher compression generally results in a better burn not as much igntion timing is needed for the same effect. Monitoring your EGTs will guide you in determining the correct AFR to igntion timing ratio.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 05-04-2006, 10:08 AM   #24
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We have this exact same setup on one of our Formula D cars. It is not the best combo for 91 oct, although it has been great on race gas in competition. Phil is correct in that you will need to run less timing on this motor. You will certianly need to run less timing than what a stock JDM ECU is running. With the proper tuning tho you should acheive the results you desire. You can have 2 different boost and watgate duty maps in a stock ECU but nothing changes with the timing. I would suggest stepping up to a UTEC or Hyrda for maximum effect. Thanks.

M
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Old 05-06-2006, 01:42 AM   #25
scooby-stu
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Well we got the motor tuned again on 100 octane Sam still had to reduce timing of of the JDM base map. We made 350WHP @ 19 PSI with wastegate issues, Boost was really unable to be controlled after that, we tryed the blitz dual solenoid but we werent sure wether that was working correctly So Sam put on a maual controller and still had problems.

Well looks as though some sort of professional base map is needed and external gate

Cheers Phil, Mike
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