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[WastingTime]

awesome. Thanks guys.. thats what I was hoping to hear.

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[racerjon1]

September 2011 Fastrack is out, and it has DSP implications...

STREET PREPARED
- Per the SPAC, the following group of class listing changes is proposed for member comment (#5440):

- Replace the DSP Subaru Impreza 2.5 listing with:
Subaru Impreza (1993-2001) (all)
Subaru Impreza 2.5, NOC

- Remove from FSP:
Subaru Impreza NOC

I wrote this letter, though my implication was to keep the 1993+ all on the same line, because of the body style change I believe they have decided to split it.

What it does is put all GC/GM naturally-aspirated chassis on the same line.

With a 1993 L with a 2.5 RS drivetrain in it, it looks to lose weight off of the current 2.5 RS chassis in DSP. It would also allow a FWD 2.5 RS engine in the L chassis, which would gain some whp and lose more weight.

We would gain the ability to have functional, areo - as it sits right now a splitter would not be functional and legal, and a spoiler on the rear of the car is not legal at all in DSP.

We would lose the ability to swap the 2.5i engine into the 2.5 RS. (It doesn't matter, not worth any time in autocross as it loses too much torque and low end to be competitive.)

We lose the ability to swap in the taller gears from the 2.5i which does matter.. our gears are short as-is.

The SPAC is submitting for member comment the following rule change proposal (#5441):

- Change 15.10.AA to read:
“AA. Camshafts and related parts must remain standard except that alternate cam drive pulleys or gears may be used to adjust cam timing if no variable cam and/or valve timing system exists as standard. Timing covers or valve covers may be altered for pulley clearance or access to adjustment. Type of cam drive (chain, belt, gear) must remain as standard. Alternate parts of the same general type (e.g. roller chain in place of “silent” chain) may be substituted. Mating parts (block, heads, covers, retainers, etc.) may not be altered except as mentioned above. Vehicles equipped with a variable cam and/or valve timing system as standard may use alternate computer calibration to adjust cam and/or valve timing but may not change or substitute cam drive components (hardware).”

Change is bolded for emphasis.

I wrote the letter because I could not use the WRX adjustable cam gears on my 2.5 RS without modification to the timing cover, which is explicitly not allowed in the current rules. Otherwise I would have had to have custom gears made for $$$ rather than trimming a timing cover. My motivation was strictly financial.

TECH BULLETINS

7. Street Prepared: The SPAC believes that the update/backdate allowance is sufficiently clear as written. Two cars from different generations which are listed on the same line in Appendix A are allowed to interchange parts, pursuant to the restrictions detailed in 15.1.C. This does not permit removal of a headlight splash guard from a 1990 Miata, since the later configuration which does not include the guard cannot be fitted to the earlier car without modification. (#5494)

This was based on a letter about Miata splash guards on the different style hoods, but discussion included things like decklids/trunks.

What this clarifies is that the 2.5 RS never came without a wing, and even though the current listing with the wingless 2.5i in DSP would seem to permit a wingless DSP 99-01 Chassis, it does not because that trunk does not fit on that model.

***I had a lot of discussions about this one with a lot of people.. SPAC people, SCCA people etc.. because I knew that coming out and saying something about the spoiler was essentially calling out most of the GC/GM chassis DSP guys at nationals over the past decade who have run a spoiler in place of a stock wing. I didn't want to say, "hey, you guys are cheating" because I understand that the interpretation under update/backdate was a reasonable one, but I was afraid it was the wrong one based on the fact that ud/bd didn't allow removal of parts, only replacement...

Sorry for those of you it messed up, but hopefully you guys like the combination of Imprezas on the same lines for weight savings, and with that change we would be able to add a spoiler and have more functional splitter area with the L-model front bumper.


I also wrote in to have the E46 BMW 3-series moved from DSP, and there are a lot of letters going both ways so it's not up for comment yet. I know that it's roughly 80whp mre than the 99-01 Impreza and at Toledo had 15mph of straight line speed on my 99 DOHC 2.5 RS. (The E30 had 11mph of straight line speed.)



- Jon

[madlib]

Very interesting. So, it looks like they would not favor putting the RS into FSP.

As it sits now, my car is not competitive with the E46 and they are not yet fully prepared.

Here's a pic of my ITB's (converted TGV's)

[racerjon1]

Originally Posted by madlib

Very interesting. So, it looks like they would not favor putting the RS into FSP.

No way - I was very open with the SPAC about the horsepower and weight levels of the car, and it's a massive overdog in FSP. (I run against Jinx, Zimmer, Barbary on a regular basis in an underprepped car - still stock differentials - and yet manage to beat them sometimes. The 2.5 RS drivetrain/engine does not belong in FSP.)

ITBs look good btw.


-Jon

[neilschelly]

Originally Posted by racerjon1

What it does is put all GC/GM naturally-aspirated chassis on the same line.

The proposal is good, and all '93-01 Imprezas should be combined I think. If it happens, the 2.5RS may get just enough more edge to be competitive in DSP, by way of weight loss (sunroof delete and lighter bodies), get some choice of final drive ratios, losing power windows/locks, etc. The EJ22 Imprezas are going to only get more underwhelming in FSP as time goes on, so this gives them a new place to play so long as they get an engine swap.

It's a shame that when I write in my support for it, I'll be comdemning my car when I was hoping to bring it to Nationals again next year. Perhaps I'll be looking for a co-drive instead. ;-)
-N

[racerjon1]

Originally Posted by neilschelly

It's a shame that when I write in my support for it, I'll be comdemning my car when I was hoping to bring it to Nationals again next year. Perhaps I'll be looking for a co-drive instead. ;-)
-N

Despite it being a shame please write the letters too... they are looking for input on it.

...and don't feel bad, when I wrote it I was thinking.. "well, this will make my 99 2.5 RS obsolete..."


- Jon

[neilschelly]

Originally Posted by racerjon1

Despite it being a shame please write the letters too... they are looking for input on it.

...and don't feel bad, when I wrote it I was thinking.. "well, this will make my 99 2.5 RS obsolete..."


- Jon

Done. I was figuring I'd stop running the Impreza and find it a new home after next year anyway. I wonder what my wife would say if I proposed another engine build for it. ;-)
-N

[Storm]

I'll write in to support this.....

Jay

[WHAT]

Originally Posted by madlib

Very interesting. So, it looks like they would not favor putting the RS into FSP.

As it sits now, my car is not competitive with the E46 and they are not yet fully prepared.

Here's a pic of my ITB's (converted TGV's)

You guys made my eyes water every time you started that thing out out at Lincoln.

I think the fumes caused me to hit cones on all my runs on the east course.

[madlib]

Yeah, a little too rich at idle. Well...at least you weren't gridded next to me. Alex, Olga and Eric were dying. I wanted to start it as late as possible, but seeing how the car had a problem starting at previous events, I wanted to make sure it started.

I'll get it idling better eventually.

Good luck on the development of your car. Hopefully you can catch the E46's because I don't think I can.

[WHAT]

Originally Posted by madlib

Yeah, a little too rich at idle. Well...at least you weren't gridded next to me. Alex, Olga and Eric were dying. I wanted to start it as late as possible, but seeing how the car had a problem starting at previous events, I wanted to make sure it started.

I'll get it idling better eventually.

Good luck on the development of your car. Hopefully you can catch the E46's because I don't think I can.

I was not far from them (only one spot) so I got a lot of that

I honestly did not mind that much.

Are you going to move out of DSP? Into a faster class? I hope not, it was good to see a subaru there.

I have a start on my plan for next season and I hope ot be able to catch them as well. It is going to be tough if you ask me. I was not far off Alex and Eric on the East course but was way off Doug.

[madlib]

I'll probably move to another class in a different car. I'll leave my car in DSP trim just in case. I want to wait and see how DSP turns out with the pending proposals.

The E46's are just fast. I don't think the E46's are fully prepped either, so they have a bit more speed in them.

[WHAT]

Originally Posted by madlib

I'll probably move to another class in a different car. I'll leave my car in DSP trim just in case. I want to wait and see how DSP turns out with the pending proposals.

The E46's are just fast. I don't think the E46's are fully prepped either, so they have a bit more speed in them.

I don't know the level of prep those guys have on the E46. I think they have more than they let on, but I could be wrong (and I hope I am not)

Hopefully my additions over the winter will allow me to close in on them.

[Dark_Helmet]

Ok so are we allowed adjustable laterals even though they have spherical bearings? And what about the fuel pump pickup mod? Also can someone clue me in on the backspacing and spacers for 15x10 diamond racing wheels. Oh and a used set of hoosiers would be cool to get ahold of while i'm getting used to the difference in the car.

[Storm]

Adjustable lateral links are allowed, but not in conjunction with camber plates up top. Sphericals are not allowed, so you'd have to put in GpN bushings or delrin.

Fuel pickup mod is allowed, so long as you don't modify the tank. The delivery system is somewhat open, save for line sizes and filter sizes.

Be careful with Diamond wheels. The torque ring is sized so that when the wheels are torqued on, there's a substantial stress rise right at the edge of the rotor hat. I've broken a few, as well as Patrick L. Food for thought! Run a steel spacer if you need to.....but don't make the car too wide!

We've(those of us in DSP) had differing amounts of success with the 275-15's, 275-17's and 285-18's. Your budget will help make that decision.....all can be made to work well.


Jay

Originally Posted by Dark_Helmet

Ok so are we allowed adjustable laterals even though they have spherical bearings? And what about the fuel pump pickup mod? Also can someone clue me in on the backspacing and spacers for 15x10 diamond racing wheels. Oh and a used set of hoosiers would be cool to get ahold of while i'm getting used to the difference in the car.

[solo-x]

I still disagree with Jay's interpretation of the rules to allow the fuel pump pickup mod. Read about other cars in SP built by long time SP competitors and fuel starve is commonly discussed. If such a thing as modding the fuel pump pickup were legal, these discussions would all reference some approach to the problem similar to what is done with Subarus. Now, Jay is a smart guy, so he could be right. Personally, I don't see it.

Originally Posted by rulebook

H. Fuel lines and pumps are unrestricted except as specified herein,
as long as they do not pose a safety hazard. Fuel lines may be no
larger than 1/2” i.d. and may only connect to the original fuel tank or
allowed fuel cell. They may be no longer than necessary for reasonable
and safe installation, and may serve no other purpose. A single
fuel feed line may be used. A single fuel return line may be used, and
a fitting for connecting it may be added at or near the top of the fuel
tank. This does not authorize “cool-cans”

L. Fuel tank changes are permitted only as allowed under 15.1.C (this is the allowance to remove the fuel tank and use a fuel cell - nw) and 15.2.K. No additional tanks or reservoirs may be used.

So, for starters, only the pump and lines are free, NOT the fuel pump assembly/pickup. The fuel lines are further restricted to limit how long they can be and that they can serve no other purpose. Reading between the lines here, it is evident to me that the rule was intended to prevent cooling or heating the fuel before injecting it into the engine, and the argument could be made that they also didn't want to provide someone a way of getting around a fuel starve issue by running 50' of fuel line as a "reservoir".

You are allowed to add a fuel return line, but it must attach at or near the top of the original fuel tank or otherwise legal fuel cell. There is no provision to route the line inside the tank.

"No additional tanks or reservoirs may be used" says to me that a reservoir that is part of the fuel pickup that is not a standard part on the car is not legal. While the STi fuel pickup assembly includes such a reservoir, this part is not a standard Impreza part nor can it be used via ud/bd.

I stress again that this is just how I read the rules. Reasonable minds may differ, but I'd hate for someone to use this against you guys when you win. If you're confident that others will read the rules the way you have, then carry on. I'm pretty good at seeing both sides of an argument though, and I'm struggling on this one. Might be a good one to discuss in a SPAC meeting...

[Dark_Helmet]

And that's why I brought it up. I read through also I thought that it meant you couldn't. You are allowed a fuel cell which would cure the problem also so I was thinking the pickup mod would fly since not everyone can afford a cell.

I'm going to have to think on the links. They are pricy and I've had no luck finding gpn mounts for this chassis.

Have y'all broken the diamond racing wheels even using a spacer?

[madlib]

They didn't break the diamond racing wheels. They broke the brake rotors.

When I ran the 15's, I used spacers and did not have an issue breaking rotors. However, I did not run the 15's for an entire season. If you run spacers, just make sure they are solid, flat-faced spacers

[Dark_Helmet]

Ok so anyone think of how wide of a hoosier can fit on a stock rs wheel or 04 STi wheel?

[Patrick L]

Anyone need a spoiler for their car? Selling mine which bolts up to the facotry spoiler mounting holes.

[04trailsti]

Is it set up for a limited spoiler or does it bolt straight to a decklid?

[04trailsti]

Originally Posted by Dark_Helmet

Ok so anyone think of how wide of a hoosier can fit on a stock rs wheel or 04 STi wheel?

Guys in D stock run 295's on an 8in wheel. I believe James wilson was one of them.

[subydude]

I know it's a different car and all, but I squeezed a 315 on to a Mustang 8" rim. Works in FS, might not work on a Subaru

[Patrick L]

Originally Posted by 04trailsti

Is it set up for a limited spoiler or does it bolt straight to a decklid?

It bolts straight to the deck lid.

BTW, guys I'll be at Nats with the RS in IT config.

[WHAT]

Originally Posted by Patrick L

It bolts straight to the deck lid.

BTW, guys I'll be at Nats with the RS in IT config.

Its good to see a subaru still running DSP out at Lincoln! (yeah, I know I am not... but still good to see)