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[solo-x]

Ok, I'm looking at two different cars for DSP. Both have the same drivetrain layout, and both will be using the same wheel and tire package. One would be a 1:14.8 power:weight ratio, the other a 1:13.5. Which do you think would be quicker?

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[waktasz]

The one with the bigger wing.

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by solo-x

Ok, I'm looking at two different cars for DSP. Both have the same drivetrain layout, and both will be using the same wheel and tire package. One would be a 1:14.8 power:weight ratio, the other a 1:13.5. Which do you think would be quicker?

By 'drivetrain layout' is everything identical down to the gear ratios and the final drive gears in the diffs?

Based on the limited info you provided, I'll say the car with the power:weight ratio of 1:13.5 will be faster of the two in a straight line.

[solo-x]

Thanks Chike! :rollseyes:

Final drive ratio and 2nd gear is different. The 1:13.5 car spins 1300rpm higher then the other car and hits the same top speed in 2nd gear. I don't want to reveal more information about the cars then that to keep focus on power vs. weight. The lower power car is 350lbs lighter then the more powerful car.

[solo-x]

Neither have wings or AWD. Both are cars that haven't really been given a real shot.

[Storm]

I tried it already.....the lower power car will lose by .076 seconds....unless it's an EJ22, then it will win by more than .5 seconds.

Jay Storm

[GSRNick]

Is there a difference in wheelbase Nate? I know the heavier car makes a lot more midrange power and to me that keeps screaming try me try me. You've also got a slightly stiffer chassis with the heavier car too. Are you thinking 275F/225R Hoosiers?

[solo-x]

Same wheelbase. Final wheel and tire package will be the same, but has not been finalized.

I was able to overcome a 130lb weight deficit with a 10whp advantage at the pro finale, but 60% of the time was found at the line with 2.2 60' vs. everyone else at 2.3. Then I look at the 2.5RS and it hasn't been able to beat the lighter civic's in STS in a long time. The last time I ran against Corey, I had already recovered 90% of the time I gave him at 60' by the first corner. The two cars I'm looking at would be on the same tires as the 2.5RS, so looking back at STS, tire to weight ratio was more important then hp to weight. Seeing how well Pat did against the BMW's this year, I can't help but wonder if lighter is better, even at the expense of HP. Of course, I may just go with the hp because it's been so long since I've had to modulate the throttle... I would love to wait until next year to finalize my decision, but I have to order wheels NOW.

[KC]

Go with your initial plan, and do it. Stop second guessing.

--kC

[Draken]

How long will an ITR remain unstolen in Mass?

Chris H.

[Draken]

Oh, btw, I know it isn't DSP, and this wasn't very scientific, but the general dimensions of the 275/35-15 Hoosier fit within the basic wheel well structure of a Hyundai Scoupe Turbo. Assuming my cardboard template and general offset dimensions are even remotely accurate. It will need a bit of flare, but I think it is totally doable. Not that I was thinking about it...

IBsub2000poundsand150+whpwithunlimitedboostinFSP

Chris H.

[solo-x]

Don't worry Keith. The 28's are on it now. Alignment is set save for the rear camber. I took it for a test drive with the h00siers on it. Whorry crap what a difference! Oh, and first gear coming off slow tight corners? On a dirty skidpad with the narrow tires on it, it'll light both front tires at 3k rpm in 2nd with my brother in the car with me. Gotta fix this brake issue it has though, and it needs to lose another 170lbs to hit my target. Still has a/c, heavy wheels, heavy battery and stock seats. So, there's another 100lbs. I haven't the faintest where I'll find that other 63lbs.... Spending is on hold though as the wifey is looking for a new job. So if I'm going to change my mind, it's now or never.

Sub/amp = 45lbs
Spare/jack = 32lbs
Exhaust = 15lbs
Lighter fuel load = 35lbs
=127lbs lighter since I first weighed it

a/c = 30lbs
battery = 20
wheels = 20
seats = 30
= 63lbs additional I need to find...

[GSRNick]

Order the wheels - they are so cheap right now its almost stupid not too right? I'm with Keith.

[solo-x]

Originally Posted by GSRNick

Order the wheels - they are so cheap right now its almost stupid not too right? I'm with Keith.

Do you know something I don't? Or is your definition of "so cheap" vastly different then mine? I'm looking at magnesium center keizer's. 15x10 and 15x7.5/8 rear, depending on how far inboard I can go before hitting the trailing arm.

[GSRNick]

Yeah I forgot for a second that the R wasn't 4x100 and I thought you were going to get in on Emilio's 6UL 15x10 deal. He's taking limited orders for them with cost around 200 a wheel. I'm pretty sure he isn't making them in any other bolt patterns though. Sorry

[solo-x]

hrm, hadn't really put too much thought into that... I could ud/bd to 4-lug. Damn, yet another thing to contemplate.

[GSRNick]

I bet you could pick up the knuckles at a junkyard for cheaper than the difference between the 6UL's and Keizers... if it really came down to it you could sell the 5 lug stuff to a ricer - although that wouldn't help out in the long run if you needed to return the car to stock to sell it :shrug:

[cdmnky]

Originally Posted by solo-x

hrm, hadn't really put too much thought into that... I could ud/bd to 4-lug. Damn, yet another thing to contemplate.

Sort of funny that Nate's getting advice on setting up a Honda on a Subaru forum (and that a BMW driver's trolling here making fun of him )

-Mike

[solo-x]

I've got the knuckles already. Just need the correct calipers....

Mike, it's even better. I'm discussing setting up an Acura with a former(?) Honda driver on a Subaru forum and getting harrassed by a BMW driver. It's the marque perfect storm.

[GSRNick]

Yeah I'm pretty much done with Hondas for a bit - car should be gone the first weekend in December - I've already had some seat time in the Vette and its damn near the most insane thing I've ever driven. Its weird driving something where you can't just floor it and expect the car to hook up - apparently the go fast pedal isn't an on/off switch - even when the steering wheel is pointed straight ahead. Who'da thunk? I'm really looking forward to the next few seasons. I gotta buy something I can tinker with in the meantime though.


I still took the time to make sure and get all the important suspension dimensions before the car leaves though Its up on :rinde: right now in the garage - one of these days I'll get around to putting everything into WinGeo and start playing with it. You never know when that data will come in handy

[Storm]

With as many axles as Campbell went through before updating to the ITR stuff....I would advise against going back down to the 4x100 stuff.....especially if you're going to run the 10" wheels and 275's.

Vrrrrmmmm-BANG.......rinse....repeat......

The ITR in DSP has been talked about by a few folks intimately familiar with them. It should prove to be a very good choice if you can stomach the hacking required to fit the wheels and tires you'll need.

Jay Storm

[solo-x]

Hadn't heard that campbell was going through axles on the 4x100 stuff. Thanks for that information.

Hacking of the fenders? I'm buying some cheap replacement front fenders to chop. The stock ones will sit in a corner until they are needed again. Rears aren't going to be touched since I won't need, nor will I want, 275's on the rear axle.

[solo-x]

So, a little update.

Fenders are mostly done. I want to order the flares now, get them all set to fit right, then I'll shoot those with paint too. Then attach with double sided automotive trim tape. Hopefully that'll be strong enough to withstand the occasional cone hit. Currently the fenders are just clearanced for the tires and painted to match the car.

Power.... It's a DS motor still. I hope to get more power soon. A header is waiting for my test pipe before it can be put on.

I settled on 15x9.5 Keizers. I couldn't stomach the magnesium centers, so I went all aluminum. They're heavier then I'd like at 15lbs each. The rears are 15x6 Millenia wheels (if they ever get here, currently the oem wheels are on the back). I think a 6" wide wheel should be plenty back there. 275/205 for the tire combo.

The suspension setup is simple. Koni 2812's, 1000lb front springs, 900lb rear springs, lowered until I got -2.5* camber up front, 1/4" lower in the rear. Stock swaybars, zero toe. I've done nothing but tossed springs and shocks at the car and lowered it. It's retardedly simple, and one WAG on the spring rates.

Did more research on the axle issue. 5-lug or 4-lug, the axles are the same. Hopefully I can avoid too much axle carnage. Watching Campbel's car run, he has a ton more body roll and outside front deflection then I do. That also means he uses more steering lock. I'm picking up some spare axles anyway, just in case...

First event was last weekend. Mike didn't have his BMW done yet, so couldn't compare against him. Chris Travis was present, but struggled with the handling in the cold weather. I ended up with a chassis setup that even with the crap tires the car was on (found cord showing on one of the fronts at the end of the day) worked brilliantly. A mild push in one corner on the course, but everywhere else was neutral with any amount of oversteer available on demand the magnitude of which was directly determined by how big of a lift you made and how much the wheel was turned. Cone issues kept me from getting a legitimate FTD, but the results wouldn't be very telling anyway. The first two heats were wet, the last two heats dry but cold. Not all the top drivers were present, and the ones that were there were knocking the rust off and cleaning out the cobwebs. Next up, getting some fresh rubber on the car, Mike getting his car finished so I can get a good bench mark, and fine tuning of the chassis setup. I'm afraid its going to pick up a push once the temperatures warm up and I put fresh rubber on. Oh, and as always, making it lighter and more powerful.

[Patrick L]

Originally Posted by solo-x

So, a little update.

Fenders are mostly done. I want to order the flares now, get them all set to fit right, then I'll shoot those with paint too. Then attach with double sided automotive trim tape. Hopefully that'll be strong enough to withstand the occasional cone hit. Currently the fenders are just clearanced for the tires and painted to match the car.

Power.... It's a DS motor still. I hope to get more power soon. A header is waiting for my test pipe before it can be put on.

I settled on 15x9.5 Keizers. I couldn't stomach the magnesium centers, so I went all aluminum. They're heavier then I'd like at 15lbs each. The rears are 15x6 Millenia wheels (if they ever get here, currently the oem wheels are on the back). I think a 6" wide wheel should be plenty back there. 275/205 for the tire combo.

The suspension setup is simple. Koni 2812's, 1000lb front springs, 900lb rear springs, lowered until I got -2.5* camber up front, 1/4" lower in the rear. Stock swaybars, zero toe. I've done nothing but tossed springs and shocks at the car and lowered it. It's retardedly simple, and one WAG on the spring rates.

Did more research on the axle issue. 5-lug or 4-lug, the axles are the same. Hopefully I can avoid too much axle carnage. Watching Campbel's car run, he has a ton more body roll and outside front deflection then I do. That also means he uses more steering lock. I'm picking up some spare axles anyway, just in case...

First event was last weekend. Mike didn't have his BMW done yet, so couldn't compare against him. Chris Travis was present, but struggled with the handling in the cold weather. I ended up with a chassis setup that even with the crap tires the car was on (found cord showing on one of the fronts at the end of the day) worked brilliantly. A mild push in one corner on the course, but everywhere else was neutral with any amount of oversteer available on demand the magnitude of which was directly determined by how big of a lift you made and how much the wheel was turned. Cone issues kept me from getting a legitimate FTD, but the results wouldn't be very telling anyway. The first two heats were wet, the last two heats dry but cold. Not all the top drivers were present, and the ones that were there were knocking the rust off and cleaning out the cobwebs. Next up, getting some fresh rubber on the car, Mike getting his car finished so I can get a good bench mark, and fine tuning of the chassis setup. I'm afraid its going to pick up a push once the temperatures warm up and I put fresh rubber on. Oh, and as always, making it lighter and more powerful.

Cool, -2.5 camber was about the magic number for my car. -3 was too much and would wear the inside too much. Axles are no a issue with my car. I hate to say it, but I am still on my original axles at 213K miles. I am looking at a weekend here soon to repack them when I do the bearing. Got any pics of the car?

I am started on a DSP motor. I just need to get my pistons ordered. I already have a crank with rods together. I just need to tank the heads and block to clean them and get machine work done.

[cdmnky]

Don't let him fool you, Nate's WAGs are better than most people's studied setups. It's gonna be an interesting year with the ITR getting faster and faster (tho I do wonder just how much the engine could get without a full rebuild) and me and Chris attempting to hold him off... or would that be his co-driver we have to hold off :P