STX WRX Setup / Discussion thread - Page 33

Annihilator817 · 10-22-2014, 09:20 AM

Upgrade your dampers, and increase your spring rates.

225 is too small to be competitive in STX. You need to run 245's in one of the competitive models like the Z2, R-S3, Rival, et al.

You can buy a press relatively cheap (a little over $100) at Harbor Freight.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Mr. Me · 10-22-2014, 09:52 AM

Really depends on what your goals with the car are. Nationally competitive, locally competitive, fun weekend car.

But my advice would be:

Upgraded struts and stiffer springs. Koni yellows and RCE yellows would be a good combination. Correct drop for performance and I believe they are the stiffest stock style spring out there. I daily on that setup and it is very comfortable. Ride quality will be in the strut quality.

Larger front sway bar. 24+mm.

Camber plates. -1.5 degrees of camber in the front is nowhere near enough for autox on a Subaru.

17x8 wheels. The lighter the better. Enkei rpf01 is a good weight to cost wheel. ~15.5 lb at ~225 each new. Used is cheaper obviously.

Sticky tires. Rs3, z2*spec, rivals, etc. you will want to bump up to a 245. As said above, 225 is too narrow.

More aggressive street brake pads.

Bushings are always a good thing. Presses are easily had as well.

Drop the stage 2 tune in favor of an stx legal one. You can't play with the boost tables in stx.

Loosing weight where possible never hurts either. Bucket seats over the 25lb minimum are legal as well. And if fit correctly can be very comfy.

I realize this isn't all suspension stuff but not a bad direction to go.

Hand crafted on my iPhone.

cmiovino · 10-22-2014, 10:39 AM

Thanks guys, points taken.

I was looking into camber plates. Upgrading the springs/struts again isn't on the table for me... the roads here are horrible. Even the setup I have now is pushing the comfort level. Not being a bitch, but everything gets torn up around here.. most even higher modified street cars forgo coilovers or stiffer dampers.

Yes, I do realize the OTS map isn't legal in STX, but I'm always at the bottom of my class and this is more of a weekend enjoyment thing.. not pure compeditive. Our local club doesn't really check for maps, etc. That and the 4EAT probably doesn't help. I'm only ever about 1-2 seconds off the lead though.

Brakes are upgraded to Stoptech pads and Centric premium rotors.

If 225 isn't wide enough, then surely my 205's aren't at all... ha.

Butt Dyno · 10-22-2014, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmiovino

I've been autocrossing for the past 3-4 years with a '98 OBS in STS, then a '04 WRX in STX. Currently typical stage 2, which is just fine in power for me. Looking for some suspension tips for the offseason. The car also is my daily, hence the reason for not going with full out coilovers.

Current setup:
Epic Engineering springs
KYB Excel-G struts
SPO Motorsports adjustable rear swaybar [set on 21mm equiv setting]
Whiteline 20mm rear swaybar bushings
Heavy duty endlinks [no brand, sold metal.. probably older]

Tires/wheels:
Hankook Evo v12's 205/55/16... pretty shot. Came from old '98... upgrading in the spring.
16x7 RS six spokes

Besides going with better tires more oriented for autox (and wider size.. 225 probably), what other suspension mods would you suggest at this point? Probably adding front and rear strut bars just due to ease of installation and I did notice a difference on my '98 with them. Other than, I was going on to focus on bushings... then found out many need presses to get in/out. I currently have a major issue with the outside of the front tires rolling over. I believe this is due to the tire, then also the size. Any mods that can be done to also combat this? Camber is maxed out in the front around -1.5 degrees with zero toe all around.

Still sticking with the Epic springs and current struts as they work well as a daily here in Pittsburgh.

* bigger front swaybar. Probably 24mm, experiment with soft vs stiff
* camber plates

The bar will help and shouldn't mess with dailyness. The camber plates will also help and might sort of mess with dailyness but if you run 0 toe and you rotate your tires you should be okay even at -2.5 or -3. Both will help keep the car off of the sidewalls when cornering.

IMHO bushings are not worth anywhere near what those two things are worth. And those two things aren't worth as much as good tires. Might want to try finding a cheap set of 17x8 Rotas as well so you can run a 235-40-17 or 245-40-17.

yazel · 10-25-2014, 12:49 PM

Sorry for the non-contributing post but... I have a set of Ohlins and JRZ dampers with springs/camber plates that are 5x100 fitment if any of you stx autox guys are looking to try something new. I'm only selling to try something else that just came out myself.

Link to JRZ for sale thread: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2680296

screechf50 · 10-27-2014, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmiovino

Thanks guys, points taken.

I was looking into camber plates. Upgrading the springs/struts again isn't on the table for me... the roads here are horrible. Even the setup I have now is pushing the comfort level. Not being a bitch, but everything gets torn up around here.. most even higher modified street cars forgo coilovers or stiffer dampers.

Yes, I do realize the OTS map isn't legal in STX, but I'm always at the bottom of my class and this is more of a weekend enjoyment thing.. not pure compeditive. Our local club doesn't really check for maps, etc. That and the 4EAT probably doesn't help. I'm only ever about 1-2 seconds off the lead though.

Brakes are upgraded to Stoptech pads and Centric premium rotors.

If 225 isn't wide enough, then surely my 205's aren't at all... ha.

As a fellow racer, if you're going to race, please do it legally whether they check tunes or not. If you're just looking to have fun in your car, run the proper class for your tune, which this year is ESP and next year is ASP (assuming the tune is the only major thing you've done). If you were to beat me and I found out you were knowingly using an illegal tune, I'd be... well, I'll say "unhappy"...

I agree with Mr. Me. Know what you want to do with your car. If you want to be competitive nationally, (IMO) your suspension setup needs to change, i.e. it needs to be WAY stiffer and have way more camber (I run -4 to -4.5 depending on course). I understand this doesn't go with you daily driving the car, which is why I suggest you just run the proper class and concentrate on getting seat time and improving driving techniques.

It's a long road to build a competitive car in any class that's not Street (Stock). Can get pretty expensive depending on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. Where you are, the least expensive upgrades you can do while keeping a comfortable-ish ride and get your best performance gains is going to be camber plates and Koni yellow inserts (Probably around $1k, maybe a little more). Monstrous front sway bar. 17x8 inch wheels and 245/40R17 tires (the ones listed previously) are extremely important as well (the tires will be $750 - $1k). If you ever decide to get serious about STX, start looking for a reputable, adjustable coilover (then you'll have to learn how to tune them). Good luck with your build.

Mind · 11-21-2014, 12:16 PM

Looks like the 2015 WRX is classed in STX now. 2009-2014 WRX still in STU.

Hmmmm......

epv · 11-21-2014, 12:30 PM

That makes me happy, but is seriously a WTF. I wonder what their logic is.

UWMechEngr · 11-21-2014, 12:30 PM

Classings like that need to come with an actual explanation from the AC it comes from. As far as I can tell, there's no reason for it other than "we wanted new competition in the class, and to destroy everything else in prosolo"

Mind · 11-21-2014, 12:53 PM

I think the 2015 is 2-300 lbs heavier than a GR WRX, trim for trim. Or at least that's what I read. I think power is about the same but the new one obviously has the faster spooling turbo. Not sure if I've seen 2014/2015 dyno comparisons to see how much more torque there is lower in the rev range.

I think the 2015 has shorter gearing though, topping out 2nd at around 62? So short enough to add some extra thrust but at the expense of top speed for the courses that require it.

The 2015 is about 550 lbs heavier than the BRZ, on 1" narrower wheels and is limited to a 245 tire, so that definitely hurts it, but it does have about 100-120 awd torques to it's advantage, pretty much throughout the rev range...

And then there's the question of how much power the 2015 can pick up under ST "don't touch the boost tables" rule.

UWMechEngr · 11-21-2014, 01:22 PM

There's some WILDLY different weight numbers being thrown around, and I really really don't think it's that dramatic. I'd like to see someone side to side weigh say an '11 and a '15.

Base '15 weight looks to be 3271; Base '11 weight 3,208 according to cars101.com (http://www.cars101.com/subaru/wrxsti/wrxsti2015.html and http://www.cars101.com/subaru/impreza/wrxsti2011.html)

Yes, it is still hit with the tire/wheel limitations, which are pretty hindering. But it still doesn't make sense for the more capable WRX to be put in a lower class than it's immediate predecessor.

epv · 11-21-2014, 02:02 PM

Going over the Cobb threads quickly it looks like to support intake/exhaust mods you really need to remove a restricter pill or you start aggravating the overboost issues the car has stock.

What type of power to weight are the twins getting to in STX and where does that put the power targets for the WRX?

wrx12tt · 11-21-2014, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UWMechEngr

There's some WILDLY different weight numbers being thrown around, and I really really don't think it's that dramatic. I'd like to see someone side to side weigh say an '11 and a '15.

Base '15 weight looks to be 3271; Base '11 weight 3,208 according to cars101.com (http://www.cars101.com/subaru/wrxsti/wrxsti2015.html and http://www.cars101.com/subaru/impreza/wrxsti2011.html)

Yes, it is still hit with the tire/wheel limitations, which are pretty hindering. But it still doesn't make sense for the more capable WRX to be put in a lower class than it's immediate predecessor.

Quoted from page 3 of the "2015 WRX auto-x impressions" thread, regarding Wayne's '15 in DS:

Quote:

Small weight savings of about 22 lbs. between mufflers and wheels. Fighting weight for my base model with an 1/8 tank of gas is 3145 lbs. 85 lbs. heavier than my old '11.

My '13 Limited on the scales at Nationals this year in DS trim was 3140 lbs with ~1/4 tank of gas. Only weight savings I have are wheels which are ~25lbs lighter than stock wheels. I wouldn't be surprised if my SPT exhaust is heavier than the stock exhaust. Curb weight is 3252 for the '13 Limited, IIRC.

Dimiperiv34 · 12-16-2014, 01:21 AM

can we get a what's everyone's set up going?

Annihilator817 · 12-22-2014, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mind

Looks like the 2015 WRX is classed in STX now. 2009-2014 WRX still in STU.

Hmmmm......

ubersoph · 12-26-2014, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annihilator817

Well... at least its fatter and still needs to be on 8" wheels?

Annihilator817 · 12-26-2014, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubersoph

Well... at least its fatter and still needs to be on 8" wheels?

The

is not because they sent the 15 WRX to STX, it's because they didn't take the 09-14 with it.

I was building my '11 base into an STU car in an attempt to get the thing reclassed. Best way to argue reclassing is to provide data.

My transmissions busted again anyway. Lost a tooth on the front ring gear. Maybe time to 6 speed swap and ASP.

The 6 Speed will add weight, but a 2011 Base is pretty light. Should still have a few pounds saved over the EVO's and STI's. Might have some potential

It's also possible that if the 15 WRX does really well in STX, they'll bump it up to STU at some point.

justint5387 · 01-22-2015, 10:16 PM

Anyone building a 15?

justint5387 · 02-08-2015, 01:59 AM

What does ppl do for rear bar? do you get one as big as possible, or keep it stock to keep it from tripoding.

tronic · 02-08-2015, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justint5387

What does ppl do for rear bar? do you get one as big as possible, or keep it stock to keep it from tripoding.

a lot of personal preference plays into that, but quoting myself from a year ago:

I found this rundown on GD/GR swaybar options very helpful:
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-suspe...-revision.html

I went with Perrin 22mm adjustable front and rear, very happy with it.

ehells · 02-23-2015, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justint5387

Anyone building a 15?

I am. Last year was my first year of AutoX. I won DS in my region, although there was really only one other person trying to be competitive (Mazda speed3). With a bigger rear sway bar, and an alignment, I was posting decent times at the end of the season. This year I will be starting with what I hope to be a competitive STX car(at least locally for now). I was very excited to see it put into STX. I don't agree that older WRX's are in STU, but I believe it was due to engine displacement (<2.0L for STX).

My list of modifications for this season:

Camber plates
22mm adjustable rear sway bar (may add front depending on first event)
Downpipe (custom made by P&L to keep class legal)
Perrin Crank Pulley
Mishimoto Intake
STX dyno tune.
Wheels and tires (to be determined)

Springs and dampers may come before next year depending on how things work out. So far I am very happy with the stock setup, especially since I drive it everyday. My opinion may change with better tires. Front camber seems to be the big limiting factor just like most other cars. Even going from .5 to 1.2 degrees was a huge difference. I can't wait to see how it does with much more camber and better tires.

machwon · 03-13-2015, 12:16 AM

Big questions- with a single catted aftermarket DP- can I dump the exhaust shortly afterwards and ditch the Catback? From my understanding this is okay as long as it's "behind the driver". Has anyone ever ran a catted aftermarket DP dumped? Too loud for competition or okay? This would be on a 2004 WRX.

Mr. Me · 03-13-2015, 12:18 AM

I was under the impression that the rules have changed and that the exhaust has to exit in the stock location, muffler or not

machwon · 03-13-2015, 01:10 AM

Interesting. I was reading the 2015 rules and how I took it is 3.3.3.B.16 (even though 14.10.D references 3.3.3.B.15 I'm assuming mistakingly) which says it can exit behind the driver or to the side of the car. However street class 13.10.C says it has to exit in the stock location. So the question is - does street set precedence for STX or does STX purely rely on 3.3.3.B.16 stating it can exit anywhere behind the driver?

Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC

machwon · 03-13-2015, 11:46 AM

Okay- SO... I wanted a little clarification so I emailed Doug Gill @ SCCA and here is his reply in regards to Street Touring exhaust exits:

Okay, section 3.3.3 (including 3.3.3.B.16) is the technical inspection for safety. All cars in all categories have to abide to section 3.3.3. It is not a set of allowances for competition compliance. You don't go back to section 3.3.3 to find out if your car is compliant with the competition allowances. It's about having a safe car.

Section 13 is the preparation allowances for cars in the Street category. Any allowance in section 13 is allowed in Street Touring along with allowances in section 14. Section 14 actually "overrides" section 13. The 2nd sentence of section 14.10.D says, "Exhaust exit may be relocated provided it meets Section 3.3.3.B.15." (It should be 3.3.3.B.16.) You don't go "back" to section 13 if section 14 says you can. In Street Touring, the exhaust exit is only restricted to be safe as in section 3.3.3.B.16; it is an allowance for Street Touring cars that is not allowed for Street category cars.

Sorry for the long reply, but technically, your answer is neither section 3.3.3.B.16 or section 13.10.C. It's section 14.10.D and I admit, it refers to section 3.3.3.B.16. Technically, the answer is in the 2nd sentence of section 14.10.D.

Hope this helps. I'll be glad to discuss this further.

-Doug
Doug Gill
SCCA® Solo® Competition Manager
1-800-770-2055

SO...if I am interpreting his email correctly... It looks as though so long as you conform to the safety standards (exiting behind the driver)- 14.10.D stating that you can relocate the exhaust exit allows us to dump / side exit our exhaust and ditch the catback.

10-22-2014, 09:52 AM	#802
Mr. Me Scooby Specialist Member#: 193598 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Bellingham, WA Vehicle: 2002 Bugeye Wagon PSM	STX WRX Setup / Discussion thread Really depends on what your goals with the car are. Nationally competitive, locally competitive, fun weekend car. But my advice would be: Upgraded struts and stiffer springs. Koni yellows and RCE yellows would be a good combination. Correct drop for performance and I believe they are the stiffest stock style spring out there. I daily on that setup and it is very comfortable. Ride quality will be in the strut quality. Larger front sway bar. 24+mm. Camber plates. -1.5 degrees of camber in the front is nowhere near enough for autox on a Subaru. 17x8 wheels. The lighter the better. Enkei rpf01 is a good weight to cost wheel. ~15.5 lb at ~225 each new. Used is cheaper obviously. Sticky tires. Rs3, z2spec, rivals, etc. you will want to bump up to a 245. As said above, 225 is too narrow. More aggressive street brake pads. Bushings are always a good thing. Presses are easily had as well. Drop the stage 2 tune in favor of an stx legal one. You can't play with the boost tables in stx. Loosing weight where possible never hurts either. Bucket seats over the 25lb minimum are legal as well. And if fit correctly can be very comfy. I realize this isn't all suspension stuff but not a bad direction to go. Hand crafted on my iPhone. Last edited by Mr. Me; 10-22-2014 at 10:15 AM.*

10-25-2014, 12:49 PM	#805
yazel Scooby Specialist Member#: 215344 Join Date: Jun 2009 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Indy	Sorry for the non-contributing post but... I have a set of Ohlins and JRZ dampers with springs/camber plates that are 5x100 fitment if any of you stx autox guys are looking to try something new. I'm only selling to try something else that just came out myself. Link to JRZ for sale thread: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2680296 Last edited by yazel; 11-13-2014 at 04:05 PM.

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10-22-2014, 09:20 AM	#801
Annihilator817 * Banned * Member#: 296742 Join Date: Oct 2011 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: RI Vehicle: '16 STI, '11 WRX, '96 328i DSP	Upgrade your dampers, and increase your spring rates. 225 is too small to be competitive in STX. You need to run 245's in one of the competitive models like the Z2, R-S3, Rival, et al. You can buy a press relatively cheap (a little over $100) at Harbor Freight. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

10-22-2014, 10:39 AM	#803
cmiovino Scooby Guru Member#: 134005 Join Date: Dec 2006 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Pittsburgh, PA Vehicle: 2004 WRX Premium PSM	Thanks guys, points taken. I was looking into camber plates. Upgrading the springs/struts again isn't on the table for me... the roads here are horrible. Even the setup I have now is pushing the comfort level. Not being a bitch, but everything gets torn up around here.. most even higher modified street cars forgo coilovers or stiffer dampers. Yes, I do realize the OTS map isn't legal in STX, but I'm always at the bottom of my class and this is more of a weekend enjoyment thing.. not pure compeditive. Our local club doesn't really check for maps, etc. That and the 4EAT probably doesn't help. I'm only ever about 1-2 seconds off the lead though. Brakes are upgraded to Stoptech pads and Centric premium rotors. If 225 isn't wide enough, then surely my 205's aren't at all... ha.

11-21-2014, 12:16 PM	#807
Mind Scooby Specialist Member#: 109216 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: PA Vehicle: 08 STI DGM 76-77 Lancia Scorpion(s)	Looks like the 2015 WRX is classed in STX now. 2009-2014 WRX still in STU. Hmmmm......

11-21-2014, 12:30 PM	#808
epv Scooby Newbie Member#: 381966 Join Date: Feb 2014 Vehicle: 2015 WRX WRB	That makes me happy, but is seriously a WTF. I wonder what their logic is.

11-21-2014, 12:30 PM	#809
UWMechEngr Scooby Specialist Member#: 193756 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Spokane, WA Vehicle: 2005 LGT Wagon Silver	Classings like that need to come with an actual explanation from the AC it comes from. As far as I can tell, there's no reason for it other than "we wanted new competition in the class, and to destroy everything else in prosolo"

11-21-2014, 12:53 PM	#810
Mind Scooby Specialist Member#: 109216 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: PA Vehicle: 08 STI DGM 76-77 Lancia Scorpion(s)	I think the 2015 is 2-300 lbs heavier than a GR WRX, trim for trim. Or at least that's what I read. I think power is about the same but the new one obviously has the faster spooling turbo. Not sure if I've seen 2014/2015 dyno comparisons to see how much more torque there is lower in the rev range. I think the 2015 has shorter gearing though, topping out 2nd at around 62? So short enough to add some extra thrust but at the expense of top speed for the courses that require it. The 2015 is about 550 lbs heavier than the BRZ, on 1" narrower wheels and is limited to a 245 tire, so that definitely hurts it, but it does have about 100-120 awd torques to it's advantage, pretty much throughout the rev range... And then there's the question of how much power the 2015 can pick up under ST "don't touch the boost tables" rule.

11-21-2014, 01:22 PM	#811
UWMechEngr Scooby Specialist Member#: 193756 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Spokane, WA Vehicle: 2005 LGT Wagon Silver	There's some WILDLY different weight numbers being thrown around, and I really really don't think it's that dramatic. I'd like to see someone side to side weigh say an '11 and a '15. Base '15 weight looks to be 3271; Base '11 weight 3,208 according to cars101.com (http://www.cars101.com/subaru/wrxsti/wrxsti2015.html and http://www.cars101.com/subaru/impreza/wrxsti2011.html) Yes, it is still hit with the tire/wheel limitations, which are pretty hindering. But it still doesn't make sense for the more capable WRX to be put in a lower class than it's immediate predecessor.

11-21-2014, 02:02 PM	#812
epv Scooby Newbie Member#: 381966 Join Date: Feb 2014 Vehicle: 2015 WRX WRB	Going over the Cobb threads quickly it looks like to support intake/exhaust mods you really need to remove a restricter pill or you start aggravating the overboost issues the car has stock. What type of power to weight are the twins getting to in STX and where does that put the power targets for the WRX?

12-16-2014, 01:21 AM	#814
Dimiperiv34 Scooby Newbie Member#: 365119 Join Date: Aug 2013 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Chicago,IL Vehicle: 2018 WRX STI Lapis Blue Pearl	can we get a what's everyone's set up going?

01-22-2015, 10:16 PM	#818
justint5387 Scooby Newbie Member#: 259697 Join Date: Oct 2010 Vehicle: 2006 WRX STi	Anyone building a 15?

02-08-2015, 01:59 AM	#819
justint5387 Scooby Newbie Member#: 259697 Join Date: Oct 2010 Vehicle: 2006 WRX STi	What does ppl do for rear bar? do you get one as big as possible, or keep it stock to keep it from tripoding.

03-13-2015, 12:16 AM	#822
machwon Scooby Newbie Member#: 153362 Join Date: Jul 2007 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Richmond, VA Vehicle: 2004 Miata LS Green	Big questions- with a single catted aftermarket DP- can I dump the exhaust shortly afterwards and ditch the Catback? From my understanding this is okay as long as it's "behind the driver". Has anyone ever ran a catted aftermarket DP dumped? Too loud for competition or okay? This would be on a 2004 WRX.

03-13-2015, 12:18 AM	#823
Mr. Me Scooby Specialist Member#: 193598 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Bellingham, WA Vehicle: 2002 Bugeye Wagon PSM	I was under the impression that the rules have changed and that the exhaust has to exit in the stock location, muffler or not

03-13-2015, 01:10 AM	#824
machwon Scooby Newbie Member#: 153362 Join Date: Jul 2007 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Richmond, VA Vehicle: 2004 Miata LS Green	Interesting. I was reading the 2015 rules and how I took it is 3.3.3.B.16 (even though 14.10.D references 3.3.3.B.15 I'm assuming mistakingly) which says it can exit behind the driver or to the side of the car. However street class 13.10.C says it has to exit in the stock location. So the question is - does street set precedence for STX or does STX purely rely on 3.3.3.B.16 stating it can exit anywhere behind the driver? Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC

03-13-2015, 11:46 AM	#825
machwon Scooby Newbie Member#: 153362 Join Date: Jul 2007 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Richmond, VA Vehicle: 2004 Miata LS Green	Okay- SO... I wanted a little clarification so I emailed Doug Gill @ SCCA and here is his reply in regards to Street Touring exhaust exits: Okay, section 3.3.3 (including 3.3.3.B.16) is the technical inspection for safety. All cars in all categories have to abide to section 3.3.3. It is not a set of allowances for competition compliance. You don't go back to section 3.3.3 to find out if your car is compliant with the competition allowances. It's about having a safe car. Section 13 is the preparation allowances for cars in the Street category. Any allowance in section 13 is allowed in Street Touring along with allowances in section 14. Section 14 actually "overrides" section 13. The 2nd sentence of section 14.10.D says, "Exhaust exit may be relocated provided it meets Section 3.3.3.B.15." (It should be 3.3.3.B.16.) You don't go "back" to section 13 if section 14 says you can. In Street Touring, the exhaust exit is only restricted to be safe as in section 3.3.3.B.16; it is an allowance for Street Touring cars that is not allowed for Street category cars. Sorry for the long reply, but technically, your answer is neither section 3.3.3.B.16 or section 13.10.C. It's section 14.10.D and I admit, it refers to section 3.3.3.B.16. Technically, the answer is in the 2nd sentence of section 14.10.D. Hope this helps. I'll be glad to discuss this further. -Doug Doug Gill SCCA® Solo® Competition Manager 1-800-770-2055 SO...if I am interpreting his email correctly... It looks as though so long as you conform to the safety standards (exiting behind the driver)- 14.10.D stating that you can relocate the exhaust exit allows us to dump / side exit our exhaust and ditch the catback.