Auto-X Rules: Read This First - Page 5

Rebellion · 05-21-2002, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zahnster
So the aluminum A-arms put me in SM or SP or what?

Where do you guys get all of this info, from the rule books($$) or is there somewhere online with this stuff?

Also, where would STi trailing and lateral links put me(they've got pillow ball mounts instead of bushings)

And, kartboy endlinks(aluminum and smaller than stock...(change of location of sway bar...?))

Dan

the control arms would put you into DSP...

I think the links would either put you into DSP or straight DP...

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trhoppe · 05-21-2002, 02:14 PM

We get all this info straight from the rulebook

http://www.scca.org/news/index.html#comp_regs

The endlinks for the swaybar should be ok to use for SP class.

The Sti links should be ok for SM as long as you are not changing geometry.

I think SM would be the class for you!

-Tom

ChrisW · 05-21-2002, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zahnster
So the aluminum A-arms put me in SM or SP or what?

Where do you guys get all of this info, from the rule books($$) or is there somewhere online with this stuff?

Also, where would STi trailing and lateral links put me(they've got pillow ball mounts instead of bushings)

And, kartboy endlinks(aluminum and smaller than stock...(change of location of sway bar...?))

Dan

I asked Charlie Davis (SEB board member) the same question.

Anything that cannot be ordered on the car from the factory will put you out of street touring or street prepared. If you can order it and demonstrate that the part is on the factory build sheet or invoice then it is legal for street prepared or street touring.

the aluminum lower control arms and STI suspension bits should be good for street mod.

The kartboy endlinks should be SP and ST legal.

KC · 05-21-2002, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisW

I asked Charlie Davis (SEB board member) the same question.

Anything that cannot be ordered on the car from the factory will put you out of street touring or street prepared. If you can order it and demonstrate that the part is on the factory build sheet or invoice then it is legal for street prepared or street touring.

the aluminum lower control arms and STI suspension bits should be good for street mod.

The kartboy endlinks should be SP and ST legal.

Ummm Can you clarify this there champ?

The car is delivered with lower control arms, just not with the specific aluminums ones. What you just said above as such a blanket statement is totally untrue for the person just reading this thread and want's to get into STS and auto-xing. Your phrase "Anything that cannot be ordered on the car from the factory will put you out of street touring or street prepared." would invalidate any modifications done at all on a car... because no car comes from the factory with things like adjustable coilovers, endlinks, etc....

You may want to make that a little clearer.

--kC

Orion · 05-24-2002, 02:38 PM

Has anyone asked about the legality of the Samco Turbo Inlet hose for STX? I'm not 100% certain which way it falls. It's after the MAF, but before the turbo.

ChrisW · 05-24-2002, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KC
Ummm Can you clarify this there champ?

The car is delivered with lower control arms, just not with the specific aluminums ones. What you just said above as such a blanket statement is totally untrue for the person just reading this thread and want's to get into STS and auto-xing. Your phrase "Anything that cannot be ordered on the car from the factory will put you out of street touring or street prepared." would invalidate any modifications done at all on a car... because no car comes from the factory with things like adjustable coilovers, endlinks, etc....

You may want to make that a little clearer.

--kC

Ok, yeah, it may not be too clear. Thanks for pointing that out KC.

If you could order a WRX with aluminum lower control arms installed at the factory, then it would be legal.

Basically, if it can't be installed on the car while it's built on the assembly line, you can't install it on your car and call it a "factory item" even though it has factory part numbers.

Now when ever we get the STI over here, and assuming the STI has the aluminum lower control arms along with the other suspension bits that we all want to use in STX, STS, or ESP, then these parts would fall under the update backdate rules.

I am not sure how the update backdate rules apply to the stock classes.

OrionF, the samco turbo inlet hoses might be considered part of the intercooler system. I checked my service manuals and it's not clear to me if the inlet hose is considered part of the air intake or intercooler system. If it is part of the air intake, then it should be legal as part of a cold air intake.

The following rules are in question

13.10-a The engine air filter element may be removed or replaced. A replacement element which is taller than standard may not be used to hold the air cleaner cover open. No other components of the air induction system may be removed, replaced or modified.

and 17.10-b Alternate air cleaner enclosures up to carburetor or throttlebody. This does not allow any changes to intercoolers.

If you have put on the samco Y pipe for the intercooler, then your definately out of ST and into SP or SM.

Orion · 05-24-2002, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisW

OrionF, the samco turbo inlet hoses might be considered part of the intercooler system. I checked my service manuals and it's not clear to me if the inlet hose is considered part of the air intake or intercooler system. If it is part of the air intake, then it should be legal as part of a cold air intake.

The following rules are in question

13.10-a The engine air filter element may be removed or replaced. A replacement element which is taller than standard may not be used to hold the air cleaner cover open. No other components of the air induction system may be removed, replaced or modified.

and 17.10-b Alternate air cleaner enclosures up to carburetor or throttlebody. This does not allow any changes to intercoolers.

If you have put on the samco Y pipe for the intercooler, then your definately out of ST and into SP or SM.

I'm fully aware of the IC hoses and any IC changes and BOV being illegal. I'm wondering if we'd be able to clarify it as part of a CAI since it is part of the only outside air source coming into the car. The IC 'Y' hose feeds the TB but is excluded as a change to the IC. I would definitely argue the Turbo Inlet as being part of the 'alternate air cleaner enclosure' as any CAI could be made to include this particular hose.

05-29-2002, 12:46 AM

autox class question for wrx

can i use a alk in esp/stx/sm if i DONT use the "square gold pieces" that changes the controller arms angel?

i thought just using the circular bushing would help a bit since the stock ones are squishy...yah im talking like im 5, sorry.

rosss · 05-29-2002, 01:15 AM

Yes, replacing just the bushings in the stock control arm mounts is perfectly legal.

It's the replacement brackets that are illegal, not the bushings.

Sean
www.subrew.com

Mark B. · 05-29-2002, 10:51 AM

1) How about DIY Intercooler Water Sprayers ? If not allowed, is pulling the fuse enough to satisfy? 2) How about Icing of Intercooler before run?

ChrisW · 05-29-2002, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark B.
1) How about DIY Intercooler Water Sprayers ? If not allowed, is pulling the fuse enough to satisfy? 2) How about Icing of Intercooler before run?

nope... Can't have the IC sprayers installed and expect to run in STX or ESP, even if you pull the fuse.

Icing the intercooler is Ok, but takes lots of ice.

Zahnster · 05-29-2002, 03:05 PM

Revisiting the Aluminum Control Arm(ACA) issue. In Suspension forum:
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...postid=2020557

We've been discussing how this affects AutoX classing and he's saying the ACA is just as bad as the ALK since the pieces that come on it are basically an ALK. If the ALK is not legal in SM, that pushes on into prepared right? Is prepared like SM without seperation or is there actually D Prepared?

P.S. Great rules site here if only the SCCA site filled the gaps better. Guess it's all about selling their rule books. http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/index.shtml

Orion · 05-29-2002, 04:12 PM

I'll be contacting a couple people to resolve the differences in the ACA mount and the OEM CA mount tonight.

We'll get to the bottom of this yet!

I want to find out for myself as I'd LOVE to get the STi kit and install everything but the metal bushings.

Zahnster · 05-29-2002, 10:50 PM

It looks like the matter has been cleared up. The ACA does not include an ALK. The part it replaces is identical, but the bushing is different(much harder). As explained in the thread I linked to immediatly above.

The Whitelane ALK is the only ALK.

ChrisW · 05-30-2002, 11:28 AM

Zahnster,

the next question is: Are there any changes to the gemoetry of the suspension? If there are changes to the caster, camber then you might not survive a protest in STX or ESP.

Assuming you have installed the ACA, and there are no changes to the alignment settings (from the ACA replacement) then it looks like a good SM upgrade.

Zahnster · 05-30-2002, 11:32 AM

The Metal piece highlighted in the thread is identical. The only difference is the bushing inside. As far as the ACA itself. Again I think it's all about stiffness. It does not offer any more castor than stock. The only camber changes are whatever you can wring out of the eccentric bolt on the front struts.

-So I guess a question is with the ACA are you in SM or can you still be in STX?

ChrisW · 05-30-2002, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zahnster
-So I guess a question is with the ACA are you in SM or can you still be in STX?

that, my friend, is the question of the day...

I would tend to think that my earlier post on this thread is relivant.

Since you can't order it as a factory option, my first reaction would be no; for the same reasons we can't use STI suspension bits in STX or SP.

Hopefully I am wrong.

Zahnster · 05-30-2002, 01:58 PM

We need an STi so we can update/backdate :-)

SM it is then. Forgot that we already covered that earlier.

imprezive · 05-31-2002, 02:25 PM

I read the faq thing first, but I saw no mention of camshafts.
I ordered the cobb tuning street camshafts. What class will that put me in?
my other mods are:
17X7.5 in rims
Intake
rear anti-roll bar

Gravelstar · 05-31-2002, 06:08 PM

Is the Subaru made short throw kit legal for the stock catagory?

subrew2 · 05-31-2002, 06:19 PM

The cams will put you into SM. Cams are an item that are quite restricted in SCCA Autocross. Can't even change them in Street Prepared classes.

Chris H.
www.subrew.com

Austin · 05-31-2002, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gravelstar
Is the Subaru made short throw kit legal for the stock catagory?

No, not legal for stock. It's dealer installed.

z3coupe · 06-02-2002, 04:07 AM

I thought this had been resolved. Its installed at the PORT, which is owned by SoA - thus is FACTORY installed. And is also on the window invoice from SoA. Its the Kartboy that is for sure not legal.

ChrisW · 06-02-2002, 11:38 AM

port installed options are considered the same as dealer installed options.

z3coupe · 06-02-2002, 01:46 PM

Has anyone ever gotten an actual verdict from Howard, or seen this in print in Fast Track???

port employees = SoA
dealer mechanics = dealer

So where does port installed have anything to do with the dealer? Not one dealer's folks have touched the car. The cars are shipped here pretty much bare bones, and what is missing from the factory invoice is installed here. Part of this is to conform to the National Content laws requiring X amount of parts being from the country it is being shipped to and sold in (USA in this situation).

05-31-2002, 02:25 PM	#119
imprezive Scooby Specialist Member#: 746 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: South East Location: FL	stupid autoX question I read the faq thing first, but I saw no mention of camshafts. I ordered the cobb tuning street camshafts. What class will that put me in? my other mods are: 17X7.5 in rims Intake rear anti-roll bar

05-31-2002, 06:08 PM	#120
Gravelstar Scooby Newbie Member#: 19173 Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ignoring mortality Vehicle: 2002 WRX VW GTi Rally Car - G2	Subaru Short Throw legal in DS? Is the Subaru made short throw kit legal for the stock catagory?

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05-21-2002, 02:14 PM	#102
trhoppe Scooby Guru Member#: 7492 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Hotlanta, GA Vehicle: No race cars www.tomhoppe.com	We get all this info straight from the rulebook http://www.scca.org/news/index.html#comp_regs The endlinks for the swaybar should be ok to use for SP class. The Sti links should be ok for SM as long as you are not changing geometry. I think SM would be the class for you! -Tom

05-24-2002, 02:38 PM	#105
Orion Got the F out Moderator Member#: 4797 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: central ohio Vehicle: 05 05, 01, 98, 95 CGM	Has anyone asked about the legality of the Samco Turbo Inlet hose for STX? I'm not 100% certain which way it falls. It's after the MAF, but before the turbo.

05-29-2002, 12:46 AM	#108
MrBrian Guest Member#:	autox class question for wrx can i use a alk in esp/stx/sm if i DONT use the "square gold pieces" that changes the controller arms angel? i thought just using the circular bushing would help a bit since the stock ones are squishy...yah im talking like im 5, sorry.

05-29-2002, 01:15 AM	#109
rosss Scooby Newbie Member#: 1841 Join Date: Jul 2000 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA Vehicle: 1999 Impreza RS Silver	Yes, replacing just the bushings in the stock control arm mounts is perfectly legal. It's the replacement brackets that are illegal, not the bushings. Sean www.subrew.com

05-29-2002, 10:51 AM	#110
Mark B. Scooby Newbie Member#: 9848 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Palmdale CA Vehicle: 2002 WRX Platinum Silver	1) How about DIY Intercooler Water Sprayers ? If not allowed, is pulling the fuse enough to satisfy? 2) How about Icing of Intercooler before run?

05-29-2002, 03:05 PM	#112
Zahnster Scooby Specialist Member#: 2918 Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Simi Valley, CA, USA Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Silver Sedan	Revisiting the Aluminum Control Arm(ACA) issue. In Suspension forum: http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...postid=2020557 We've been discussing how this affects AutoX classing and he's saying the ACA is just as bad as the ALK since the pieces that come on it are basically an ALK. If the ALK is not legal in SM, that pushes on into prepared right? Is prepared like SM without seperation or is there actually D Prepared? P.S. Great rules site here if only the SCCA site filled the gaps better. Guess it's all about selling their rule books. http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/index.shtml

05-29-2002, 04:12 PM	#113
Orion Got the F out Moderator Member#: 4797 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: central ohio Vehicle: 05 05, 01, 98, 95 CGM	I'll be contacting a couple people to resolve the differences in the ACA mount and the OEM CA mount tonight. We'll get to the bottom of this yet! I want to find out for myself as I'd LOVE to get the STi kit and install everything but the metal bushings.

05-29-2002, 10:50 PM	#114
Zahnster Scooby Specialist Member#: 2918 Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Simi Valley, CA, USA Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Silver Sedan	It looks like the matter has been cleared up. The ACA does not include an ALK. The part it replaces is identical, but the bushing is different(much harder). As explained in the thread I linked to immediatly above. The Whitelane ALK is the only ALK.

05-30-2002, 11:28 AM	#115
ChrisW Scooby Specialist Member#: 4181 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: keeping santa cruz weird Vehicle: 2003 Lancer Evo 8 It's Blue, ok?	Zahnster, the next question is: Are there any changes to the gemoetry of the suspension? If there are changes to the caster, camber then you might not survive a protest in STX or ESP. Assuming you have installed the ACA, and there are no changes to the alignment settings (from the ACA replacement) then it looks like a good SM upgrade.

05-30-2002, 11:32 AM	#116
Zahnster Scooby Specialist Member#: 2918 Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Simi Valley, CA, USA Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Silver Sedan	The Metal piece highlighted in the thread is identical. The only difference is the bushing inside. As far as the ACA itself. Again I think it's all about stiffness. It does not offer any more castor than stock. The only camber changes are whatever you can wring out of the eccentric bolt on the front struts. -So I guess a question is with the ACA are you in SM or can you still be in STX?

05-30-2002, 01:58 PM	#118
Zahnster Scooby Specialist Member#: 2918 Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Simi Valley, CA, USA Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Silver Sedan	We need an STi so we can update/backdate :-) SM it is then. Forgot that we already covered that earlier.

05-31-2002, 06:19 PM	#121
subrew2 Scooby Newbie Member#: 2883 Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Burlington, VT Vehicle: 2004 STi Silver/Gold	The cams will put you into SM. Cams are an item that are quite restricted in SCCA Autocross. Can't even change them in Street Prepared classes. Chris H. www.subrew.com

06-02-2002, 04:07 AM	#123
z3coupe Scooby Specialist Member#: 13540 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Dallas Vehicle: 2006 MKV GTI Black	I thought this had been resolved. Its installed at the PORT, which is owned by SoA - thus is FACTORY installed. And is also on the window invoice from SoA. Its the Kartboy that is for sure not legal.

06-02-2002, 11:38 AM	#124
ChrisW Scooby Specialist Member#: 4181 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: keeping santa cruz weird Vehicle: 2003 Lancer Evo 8 It's Blue, ok?	port installed options are considered the same as dealer installed options.

06-02-2002, 01:46 PM	#125
z3coupe Scooby Specialist Member#: 13540 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Dallas Vehicle: 2006 MKV GTI Black	Has anyone ever gotten an actual verdict from Howard, or seen this in print in Fast Track??? port employees = SoA dealer mechanics = dealer So where does port installed have anything to do with the dealer? Not one dealer's folks have touched the car. The cars are shipped here pretty much bare bones, and what is missing from the factory invoice is installed here. Part of this is to conform to the National Content laws requiring X amount of parts being from the country it is being shipped to and sold in (USA in this situation).