STU guys check in. Set ups

[qcslvr30]

Annie, You have to call Luke at Tire Rack for the Kosei's. They are considered and "extreme" fitment and do not come up on the website. He'll know exactly what you want, I just ordered mine last month.

James

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[DrBiggly]

Originally Posted by Impreza01

Hrmm, I guess I'm confused a little. When reading the STX set-ups, the national competitors were using higher rates of spring in the rear and larger swaybars in the rear. I figured if the WRX was setup like that by national competitors, then why not the STI given the additional power put out by the rear wheels compared with the front.

Annie: Sorry if I'm sorta hijacking your old thread, but on the otherhand at least something may come to light from this discussion.

The STX cars have a 50/50 power distribution and an open front diff. The STis have 35/65 or 46/54 or whatever number it is this year (it has changed each year) as does the programming for the DCCD as does the front diff (which thankfully isn't an open one.) The super high rear spring rates to treat the car like a true FWD isn't quite necessary on the STi. Swap springrates between front and rear for STX vs. STU and it becomes a closer (albeit still not correct) approximation of what is needed.

Originally Posted by Banannie

Biggly, thanks for the input.

I've been pestering poor Steve at zzyzx with every question under the sun and I think I'm about ready to write the check - he is just dang good when it comes to customer service. I really like the concept behind the Tarmac 2's but with them being an unknown, I don't feel like being the pioneer. I'm hoping if I end up with a known quantity setup that others have, that we can share setup information - while I have jackets and more trophies than I can keep track of, virtually all are in stock class, so I do need info/advice etc when branching into the wild world of non-stock...

Non-stock: Maximize the contact patch up front. Rather than using whatever you could in stock class, now you can use all of it. Then balance the car to make it rotate like you want. Some folks think that this is not the way to go and prefer to use less camber to better braking a bit, so this is all opinion for myself. Do the pyrometer testing/skidpad/etc to see what you like; it's all up to you.

-Biggly

[Banannie]

Originally Posted by qcslvr30

Annie, You have to call Luke at Tire Rack for the Kosei's. They are considered and "extreme" fitment and do not come up on the website. He'll know exactly what you want, I just ordered mine last month.

James

Does anyone have Luke's extension #?

[Corey]

Originally Posted by Banannie

Does anyone have Luke's extension #?

Luke = Ext. 362

[Banannie]

Cool, thanks!!

I have officially ordered the zzyzx's... yippee!

Swaybars are next...

[grippgoat]

Originally Posted by DrBiggly

-Before turbo exhaust: Better response and less lag without headers; a few pounds off the front of the car with them. Careful on trading that; I'd stick with stock. Port stock manifolds if you truly have the itch to optimize the exhaust further as that will make the best power and have the best response. Don't know that swapping the stock uppipe is necessary, I'd not bother for quite a while...if ever.

Regarding the header, I think the "better response and less lag with stock manifold" argument only applies to 2.0L motors, and so do many other STI owners with headers. I have a Borla header (with GP Moto intake and GP Moto turbo-back), and while it's remotely concievable it may not spool quite as fast as a tuned car on stock and ported header, it DEFINITELY removes 10-11 pounds, scale-verified, from the front of the car, and I still make 320 ft-lbs wheel torque at 3500 rpms on the stock turbo, and have no problems powering out of corners from the lower end of the tach. Also, at the dyno day where I got tuned, as did bboy with his hydra and GT-Spec header, and a few turbo-back + utec + stock manifold STIs, bboy was I think 296hp, I was at 299hp, and all the stock-manifold STIs were down around 275-280hp. You could clearly see the difference the header made in the torque curve as well. The torque was holding higher by 500-1000rpms before it dropped off steeply.

As far as I'm concerned, on an STI, a header is a no-brainer. Good weight loss per dollar (not great, but good), decent power increase per dollar, and response is definitely not a problem.

Biggly also mentioned intake... I'll +1 that. A lot of people say there's no need to swap from the stock airbox, but even before I had engine management (after I had the header and turbo-back), I could feel increased response and less high-rpm power drop-off with my GP Moto intake. If I had to do it again, though, I'd probably get te K&N Typhoon like he mentioned.

-Mike

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by grippgoat

As far as I'm concerned, on an STI, a header is a no-brainer. Good weight loss per dollar (not great, but good), decent power increase per dollar, and response is definitely not a problem.

While I agree with you on most fronts, I did get to do the big header comparo right here in Sunny Portland, and I learned alot about what makes or breaks headers.

The number one fear with using headers, increased lag, is legitimate. If you buy a unequal length header and place it on the car out of the box, you will see increased lag until the headers gets up to temperature. Unfortuantely for autX racers, this is half way into the course.

This can be almost entirely mitigated by a full wrap. I was so impressed by how much difference wrapping made on the dyno for the first couple pulls... I coated AND wrapped mine.

While this probably doesnt make a difference to track racers or street drivers, I can say that it would make a difference to an AutoX racer.

You can port the stock manifolds and add an Injen crosspipe for 65% of the power benefit of headers with no detriment to lag. Even after porting, theres enough big iron in the factory manifold that it retains heat all the way from when you drove to the course in the morning.

Chris

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Banannie

Cool, thanks!!

I have officially ordered the zzyzx's... yippee!

Swaybars are next...

I *think* you might be the first ZZYZX owner in our region...

(I know Andy is working at being close behind... but as a GA/GB/Gwhatever driver, we'll only let him play with us "big people" GD drivers once in awhile )

[thrdeye]

On my 2.0 STX car, I was very happy with my header after I wrapped it. It is coated inside and out and wrapped with thermo tec. Amazing differenc in power and stock-like spool qualities.

It is a vibrant/daddy's style header with uppipe

[Banannie]

Ok, dumb newbie question - who do y'all order your whiteline swaybars from? Directly from Whiteline or from someone else?

[Crash477]

go through www.boxer4racing.com Best place, and great guy!!

[DrBiggly]

Originally Posted by Crash477

go through www.boxer4racing.com Best place, and great guy!!

Bah, you beat me to it. Dale is the man.

-Biggly

[AtomicRacer]

Originally Posted by grippgoat

Regarding the header, I think the "better response and less lag with stock manifold" argument only applies to 2.0L motors, and so do many other STI owners with headers. I have a Borla header (with GP Moto intake and GP Moto turbo-back), and while it's remotely concievable it may not spool quite as fast as a tuned car on stock and ported header, it DEFINITELY removes 10-11 pounds, scale-verified, from the front of the car, and I still make 320 ft-lbs wheel torque at 3500 rpms on the stock turbo, and have no problems powering out of corners from the lower end of the tach. Also, at the dyno day where I got tuned, as did bboy with his hydra and GT-Spec header, and a few turbo-back + utec + stock manifold STIs, bboy was I think 296hp, I was at 299hp, and all the stock-manifold STIs were down around 275-280hp. You could clearly see the difference the header made in the torque curve as well. The torque was holding higher by 500-1000rpms before it dropped off steeply.

As far as I'm concerned, on an STI, a header is a no-brainer. Good weight loss per dollar (not great, but good), decent power increase per dollar, and response is definitely not a problem.

Biggly also mentioned intake... I'll +1 that. A lot of people say there's no need to swap from the stock airbox, but even before I had engine management (after I had the header and turbo-back), I could feel increased response and less high-rpm power drop-off with my GP Moto intake. If I had to do it again, though, I'd probably get te K&N Typhoon like he mentioned.

-Mike

Completely disagree with using a header in an autocross environment. Compared to the stock cast iron manifold any header (including coated and wrapped) just doesn't retain heat well enough or fast enough to provide comperable throttle response.

Don't believe me? Ask Joel (BSP STi) why he isn't running a header any more.

-Paul

[Banannie]

Cool...

thanks guys!

[Banannie]

Ok, well, got the coilovers ordered and now the wheels/tires (although the color I want won't be in stock until March...).

Now I have to remind myself that I wasn't planning to compete in this car this year! DOH!

[DrBiggly]

Originally Posted by AtomicRacer

Completely disagree with using a header in an autocross environment. Compared to the stock cast iron manifold any header (including coated and wrapped) just doesn't retain heat well enough or fast enough to provide comperable throttle response.

Don't believe me? Ask Joel (BSP STi) why he isn't running a header any more.

-Paul

I'm with Paul here. It isn't the initial lag and total power output, but instead mid-throttle response and turbo response that cannot be measured on a dyno. The dyno will show basically identical results between the two on an STX or STU car on torque and horsepower numbers but that does not tell the whole story. I just did not go into it above as I would rather not write a ridiculous post and instead chose to exercise a specific level of concision.

edit: I would say headers are a go on an N/A car. I would also lean towards them for a lighter car (like a Honda) or even for certain Subarus; 2.5RS for example. But the 10/11lbs on the nose of the car aren't worth the time penalties incurred trying to dig out of odd turns with a header on a turbo car.

-Biggly

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by AtomicRacer

(including coated and wrapped) just doesn't retain heat well enough or fast enough to provide comperable throttle response.

We did hours and hours of testing on both a dyno and logging on the street to show that a wrapped and coated header retains heat as well as the stock manifold. Sure, uncoated and unwrapped (or in my opinion even coated alone) will not give response like stock... but this is something I can back up with a large suite of numbers.

Now, if you start an autoX with the EGTs not at least where they would be after 5 or so minutes of idling, you are dealing with a cold up-pipe and hot-side anyways, meaning you are down on response to begin with.

While keeping the TMIC wet and cool (its important to wrap the turbine housing and use all the heat sheilding you can), the car should be idling while you are staging to keep things ready.

Chris

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DrBiggly

but instead mid-throttle response and turbo response that cannot be measured on a dyno.

Complete Logs from the car on the street with each header (stock, ported, ported with crosspipe, EL, and unequal length) are here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=974977

Also in the trend of being concise, I'll leave it at that...

[thrdeye]

...yeah, both coated and wrapped feels just like stock to me as far as throttle response. I got some good coating from crucialracing and I did a very good job (if I do say so myself) of wrapping.

I will add that my particular header does have a velocity stack in the uppipe.

[seattleswimboy]

Annie-

Are you going to take the car out to the slush even this Sunday so we can take a look at it?

[bdi]

But doesnt adding all of these coatings and wrappings to headers negate the 10 lb weight loss?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by bdi

But doesnt adding all of these coatings and wrappings to headers negate the 10 lb weight loss?

I think my package of wrap and the coating they put on might have added up to 1-2 lbs at the most.

[Banannie]

Originally Posted by seattleswimboy

Annie-

Are you going to take the car out to the slush even this Sunday so we can take a look at it?

I'll be there in the afternoon, but will be driving Fast Mike's Solstice. My car will look remarkably like yours did when you bought it, other than the pearl white vs. aspen!

[DougM]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I *think* you might be the first ZZYZX owner in our region...

I think David Lewis is one of the first STi guys to run the zzyyyyzzzxxx coilovers. Annie, you should hit him up. (he's on here sometimes as well). I can't remember but Dick Willy might have them as well.

did anyone mention brake upgrades? I really didn't care much for the pedal feel when I first had my STi... some better pads and steel brake lines were easy and helped some... maybe they fixed the gooey master cylinder bracket after 2004?? ...you can't fuss with that in STU.

and I'll reiterate, the stock seats absolutely suck, you'll want something to strap you down, for sure.

[afpdl]

Originally Posted by DougM

maybe they fixed the gooey master cylinder bracket after 2004?? ...you can't fuss with that in STU.

No, they fixed the gooey wheel bearings after 2004.