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Old 04-08-2009, 12:32 AM   #1
SpoolinWRX4
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Default Grimmspeed EBCS vs. Hallman Pro MBC w/ EWG

I'm getting a protune soon for a 38mm EWG Grimmspeed setup w/ a VF39. I contacted my tuner about a boost controller for my setup and he said the Hallman Pro MBC would probably be better but I could also do the Grimmspeed boost solenoid as well. I searched on both the boost controllers and their pro's and con's with the EWG and I'm leaning more towards the Grimmspeed EBCS, but I'm just not sure.

Is the Grimmspeed EBCS OK to use with an EWG or should I go MBC? Anybody with either of these boost controllers w/ a EWG setup want to chime in and share their experiences with either one? Thanks!
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:59 AM   #2
gtasti
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I got the Gm ebc with a 44mm wg works fine

i'm sure the grimmspeed will work great
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Old 04-08-2009, 02:19 AM   #3
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Our BCS will work perfect on your EWG setup. We have tons of customers running this setup and all have had great results. Being able to control our BCS with the ECU is a big advantage.

Justin
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Old 04-08-2009, 02:24 AM   #4
sorrowfulkiller
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on an 04 I would personally do the ebcs for the simple fact that you have the closed to open loop delay. however if the tuner knows how to change this delay, then do whatever your heart desires.
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Old 04-08-2009, 02:38 AM   #5
SpoolinWRX4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimmSpeed View Post
Our BCS will work perfect on your EWG setup. We have tons of customers running this setup and all have had great results. Being able to control our BCS with the ECU is a big advantage.

Justin
Thank You! That's the exact answer I was looking for.. The EWG setup will be paired up with your PnP Manifolds, I can't wait to see the results
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:25 AM   #6
the suicidal eggroll
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I have had both (GM BCS and Hallman Pro MBC) on my Tial 44mm, I'm sticking with the Hallman and never going back
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Old 04-08-2009, 03:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
I have had both (GM BCS and Hallman Pro MBC) on my Tial 44mm, I'm sticking with the Hallman and never going back
Care to post why?
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Old 04-08-2009, 04:36 PM   #8
the suicidal eggroll
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EBC was a pain to tune, especially set up in interrupt mode with the EWG. Overboost a bit and it drops the WGDC, then boost plummets to 16 psi, never building back up to target. It would have taken days of playing with the turbo dynamics to get it right, but I popped an I/C pipe on the dyno and just said screw it.

MBC is set and forget. I put it on the car in 15 minutes, did a pull, turned it up a bit, did a pull, turned it up a bit, did a pull, and it was done. Rock solid 21 psi from spool to redline without so much as a hiccup, all day, every day, regardless of outside temperature. I never got that with the OEM boost control system after hours and hours of tweaking it. I'd get it just right, then the weather would drop by 30 degrees and I would throw an overboost code, and that's with the stock wastegate and stock BCS, so the stock temperature scaling should have been fine.

People say that partial throttle full boost is such a problem, but I have never had an issue with it. The boost on my car is very easy to control with the throttle, if I only want 5 psi, I can have 5 psi very easily by, *gasp*, not going full throttle. Of course I've never tried it with a VF39, that might be a little more challenging.

The only thing you might have to worry about is asking full boost out of the VF39 at redline, which it can't do. With the EBCS you can taper the boost at redline, with the MBC you can't. Of course you could always run the GM BCS in parallel with the MBC and have the best of both worlds.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:40 PM   #9
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days?

We've tuned many, many ewg setups using the stock boost control system and a 3-port. I'm not the guy on the dyno but Jon doesn't seem to ever have too much trouble with it. In fact, more often than not MBCs that come in get removed and replaced with an ebcs. It's especially useful when you want multiple maps for things like meth and race gas.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:56 PM   #10
the suicidal eggroll
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It would have taken me days, a professional tuner could have done it in less I'm sure. I've had several professional tunes though, and none have ever had as consistent, reliable, smooth, and flat a boost curve as an MBC gives you in, literally, a few minutes. If you want different boost settings for different fuels, get an in-cabin kit. It would take less time to do one pull and adjust the boost to hit your new target than it would to flash a new map on the car (of course if you're changing fueling and timing you would need to flash a new map anyway, but I'm just saying).
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
EBC was a pain to tune, especially set up in interrupt mode with the EWG. Overboost a bit and it drops the WGDC, then boost plummets to 16 psi, never building back up to target. It would have taken days of playing with the turbo dynamics to get it right, but I popped an I/C pipe on the dyno and just said screw it.

MBC is set and forget. I put it on the car in 15 minutes, did a pull, turned it up a bit, did a pull, turned it up a bit, did a pull, and it was done. Rock solid 21 psi from spool to redline without so much as a hiccup, all day, every day, regardless of outside temperature. I never got that with the OEM boost control system after hours and hours of tweaking it. I'd get it just right, then the weather would drop by 30 degrees and I would throw an overboost code, and that's with the stock wastegate and stock BCS, so the stock temperature scaling should have been fine.

People say that partial throttle full boost is such a problem, but I have never had an issue with it. The boost on my car is very easy to control with the throttle, if I only want 5 psi, I can have 5 psi very easily by, *gasp*, not going full throttle. Of course I've never tried it with a VF39, that might be a little more challenging.

The only thing you might have to worry about is asking full boost out of the VF39 at redline, which it can't do. With the EBCS you can taper the boost at redline, with the MBC you can't. Of course you could always run the GM BCS in parallel with the MBC and have the best of both worlds.
Good stuff. Thanks.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:08 PM   #12
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I personally had a lot of problems with a Hallman Pro MBC. Most notably was the fact that it absolutely refused to let me run 24lbs. I couldn't get it to hold more than 18lbs or so on my setup, tdo5 18g 7cm with meth. I switched from that to a gm solenoid, which worked well for a while, but i'm having strange boost issues that i believe are due to the solenoid, so i will soon be switching to GrimmSpeed. Everyone I know with one has had great results.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:15 PM   #13
the suicidal eggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovethebugeye View Post
I personally had a lot of problems with a Hallman Pro MBC. Most notably was the fact that it absolutely refused to let me run 24lbs. I couldn't get it to hold more than 18lbs or so on my setup, tdo5 18g 7cm with meth. I switched from that to a gm solenoid, which worked well for a while, but i'm having strange boost issues that i believe are due to the solenoid, so i will soon be switching to GrimmSpeed. Everyone I know with one has had great results.
AFAIK, an interrupt-style EBC is an interrupt-style EBC. Most of them are just relabeled units from the same 3rd party manufacturer, I don't see why one of them would allow you to smoothly run one level of boost while another wouldn't, they do the exact same thing in the exact same way.

What spring are you using in your wastegate? That could very easily be your problem...an MBC can only increase the boost over wastegate spring pressure so much, the Hallman Pro Rx specifically states that it can only add up to 5 psi with the weak spring, the stiff spring is more but it's not infinite. The general rule of thumb is to limit your boost to double your wastegate spring pressure, beyond that you may have problems with holding the boost or oscillating around the target. If you couldn't hit your target with an MBC (a proven MBC at that), that should have been your first clue that there's a problem with your setup. The second clue should have been that a proven EBC can't hold your boost correctly either. Switching to another EBC that does the exact same thing won't solve it.

Last edited by the suicidal eggroll; 04-08-2009 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
AFAIK, an interrupt-style EBC is an interrupt-style EBC. Most of them are just relabeled units from the same 3rd party manufacturer, I don't see why one of them would allow you to smoothly run one level of boost while another wouldn't, they do the exact same thing in the exact same way.

What spring are you using in your wastegate? That could very easily be your problem...an MBC can only increase the boost over wastegate spring pressure so much, the Hallman Pro Rx specifically states that it can only add up to 5 psi with the weak spring, the stiff spring is more but it's not infinite. The general rule of thumb is to limit your boost to double your wastegate spring pressure, beyond that you may have problems with holding the boost or oscillating around the target. If you couldn't hit your target with an MBC (a proven MBC at that), that should have been your first clue that there's a problem with your setup. The second clue should have been that a proven EBC can't hold your boost correctly either. Switching to another EBC that does the exact same thing won't solve it.
Yeah I know, I first had a weaker spring in it which caused problems. But it pretty much ended up to where I had massive boost creep in 4th or had to run lower boost, there was no way I could get the target boost I wanted. Besides that my tuner recommended a gm bcs at the time, and it fixed the problems I was having. I don't really have much of a reason to upgrade to a GrimmSpeed one besides that I've seen a few people with gm bcs' have theirs fail and act kind of erratically, which is kind of what is going on with my car, and the GrimmSpeed one is pretty.

I would really just go with whatever your personal tuner recommends, some prefer mbc's some don't. But IMO, if you are going to go with an upgraded bcs, I'd go with a GrimmSpeed, it's a high quality product.

Just to clarify, I'm not knocking a Hallman mbc in any way, I know most people that run them have no problems whatsoever. I mostly changed due to my tuner being more comfortable with a bcs.
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:05 PM   #15
Badmunky
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I would run a BCS my self.

That said this ones just as good and $32 cheaper to.

http://www.ixizconcept.com/

Under power its the last option, look at the 3port. Comes with every thing you need for under $80.

Not to take any thing from the Grimmspeed unit. Just posting another one for you to look at.
Both are vary good products!

Later.
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