Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday March 18, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports > Autocross

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-11-2007, 01:17 PM   #101
RS_Racer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 102011
Join Date: Dec 2005
Vehicle:
2007 WRX TR
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkWRXWag View Post
yeah - it fits just fine. I took mine from my 03 Wagon and installed in on the 06 STI. I didn't notice any differences.
Was it the quick fit, or the regular bolt in? I know the regular bolt-in belts would work, but if yours was the quick fit, did it clip into the seat belt recepticles OK? My buddy said that was the problem...supposedly Subaru had changed the seat belt recepticles and the Schroths would no longer clip in. Hmmmm, if I get an '07 STI maybe I can use these belts.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
RS_Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 01-11-2007, 01:24 PM   #102
BlkWRXWag
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 31821
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: FRSport.com
Vehicle:
2015 DS WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_Racer View Post
Did it clip into the seat belt recepticles OK? My buddy said that was the problem...supposedly Subaru had changed the seat belt recepticles and the Schroths would no longer clip in. Hmmmm, if I get an '07 STI maybe I can use these belts.
Yeah - well, they don't clip in anyway. The Schroth harness has a bracket with a hole (at each of the 4 points). On the chassis, each seatbelt harness is held in with a bolt. Undo the bolt, add the Schroth bracket in and put the bolt back in. Unless the Rallye 4 has changed the design in the last couple of years, there is no problem.
BlkWRXWag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 01:27 PM   #103
RS_Racer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 102011
Join Date: Dec 2005
Vehicle:
2007 WRX TR
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkWRXWag View Post
Yeah - well, they don't clip in anyway. The Schroth harness has a bracket with a hole (at each of the 4 points). On the chassis, each seatbelt harness is held in with a bolt. Undo the bolt, add the Schroth bracket in and put the bolt back in. Unless the Rallye 4 has changed the design in the last couple of years, there is no problem.
Oh, you have the regular Rallye 4 point bolt-in then. Yea, that will work no problem. But they also have some sort of quick fit Rallye 4 point they make for the Subaru's... it clips in and out of the car using the seat belts. Those particular ones don't appear to work on the 2006+ cars because of some change Subaru made (and I thought you had got one to work in yours...my bad).
RS_Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 03:10 PM   #104
BIGSKYWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7958
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Plains of Eastern Montana
Vehicle:
09 GH B+

Default

That's funny (not ha ha funny) as the very first bunch of quick fits to hit our shores all had to be sent back as they didn't our receptacles- they revised them and re- sent them- have them in my 04 and love them.

Now it appears we (North America) have gone to the same receptacles that the EU had a couple of years ago- now they'll have to offer two different ones. The good news is they should have lots of the "newer" style ones
BIGSKYWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 03:38 PM   #105
BlkWRXWag
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 31821
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: FRSport.com
Vehicle:
2015 DS WRX

Default

See - I had no idea there was a new 'quick fit" type My one is crap enough that it works everywhere
BlkWRXWag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 12:21 PM   #106
Banannie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 101199
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
2013 BRZ
Black

Default

So some are suggesting the Tarmac 2's, some the zzyxz - who knows enough about both to comment on the pros/cons of each??? Inquiring minds would love to know...

Annie
Banannie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 12:34 PM   #107
BlkWRXWag
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 31821
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: FRSport.com
Vehicle:
2015 DS WRX

Default

Annie,

The Tarmac 2 has only just been released, so I doubt anyone has tested it on an AX course yet. The Zzyzx utilizes the Koni 8611 DA shock, so is somewhat of a known quantity for AX.

Which one is better - only time will tell.

-Max.
BlkWRXWag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 12:41 PM   #108
Uber Wagon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 39600
Join Date: Jul 2003
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Boulder, CO USA
Vehicle:
2008 STi
Dark Grey Metallic

Default

On the power side:

How much are people picking up on a dedicated STU tune versus the stock ECU (assumining you already have a downpipe)?
Uber Wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 01:29 PM   #109
RainMaker
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 93301
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
06 CGM STI SM#17
Now with alot less verve!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banannie View Post
So some are suggesting the Tarmac 2's, some the zzyxz - who knows enough about both to comment on the pros/cons of each??? Inquiring minds would love to know...

Annie
The Tarmac 2s are double adjustable, but have fixed high speed damping in either direction. This means decent street manners. The Tarmac 2s are about 1/2 the price of the ZZYZX. There is some question that the Tarmac 2s would work well with 12k/10k springs. With street tires, you may not want quite that much spring. The Tarmac 2s are single height adjustable, meaning to have to add spring preload if you want to lower the car, sacrificing some travel in the process. I believe the rear ZZYZX have helper springs to keep fom lifting legs. THe Tarmac 2 is a stamped steel design, implying slightly heavier components.

The ZZYZX are a true motorsports design and use the Koni 8611 DA. That means double adjustability, but the high speed dampening is adjusted with the low. You probably wont get the street manners out of the Koni that you can with the ZZYZX. On the other hand, these shocks are totally in their element with 12k/10k springs. While ZZYZX's setup seems sorted, I havent seen them arrive with brake-hose brackets, wire brackets, and other niceties that lend them to "swap on in a couple hours and drive accross the US." The ZZYZX has a slotted top and bottom hub bolt hole, making it a liiiittle easier to get big meaty tires on the car. This doesnt matter in STU THe ZZYZX are double height adjustable, which means you can preserve 100% of your travel (and as little preload as you like) while adjusting ride height. The ZZYZX are aluminum bodies and flanges, for nice light weight blingy goodness. I believe the ZZYZX come with your choice of springs.

The double adjustable Ohlins Flag series seem to have the ability to work with 12/10k springs, are inverted, and have fixed decently comfy high speed dampening for the street. The Ohlins come with front camber plates and rear non-adjustable plates. The Ohlins have an external resevior for whatever thats worth. They are double height adjustable, and are aluminum bodied, flanged, and resevoired. They come with 8k front 6.5k rear springs, which seem pretty decent for Oregon streets, but you may find yourself wanting 7 or 7.5k in the rear for AutoX (Ryan and James can help with that). (Standard 2.5" springs like everything here, available from Groundcontrol for $59 a spring.) The Ohlins don't have a helper spring, but Ohlins claims that a helper spring wouldnt work since it couldnt overpower the valving and big swaybar, AND would get in the way of tire clearance.

I chose the Ohlins for SM, since I have to drive on them every day, wanted a totally bolt-in solution, wanted the ability to throw on 12k springs without revalving, and like the dual height adjustability. I don;t know if I'll lift a leg yet, but I'll have to get over it if I do, since I dont have a readily available solution. I do like that I can put the 275 tires right up against the dampener and keep a 7" spring above the tire in the rear. I got a great deal from racecompengineering.com for the Ohlins, but prices have gone up and they are looking mighty pricey.

Good luck and see you out there

Chris

Last edited by RainMaker; 01-12-2007 at 01:44 PM.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 01:43 PM   #110
Banannie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 101199
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
2013 BRZ
Black

Default

Chris, thanks for the detailed response, that was helpful!

Decisions, decisions...
Banannie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2007, 03:08 PM   #111
Solotoy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 99421
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Renton, WA
Vehicle:
'13 BRZ
White Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
The Tarmac 2s are double adjustable, but have fixed high speed damping in either direction. This means decent street manners.
The T2's focus on the low speed bump adjustment and as you mention the high speed is set at the factory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
The Tarmac 2s are about 1/2 the price of the ZZYZX.
Yes they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
The Tarmac 2s are single height adjustable, meaning to have to add spring preload if you want to lower the car, sacrificing some travel in the process. I believe the rear ZZYZX have helper springs to keep fom lifting legs.
You are correct that since the T2's don't have a separate height adjustment, you need to change height with the spring perch. To lower the car you need to reduce spring preload but as we all know, if you get much lower than 13.5" you'll have funky suspension geometry that we can't fix within the ST_ rules. The T2's can handle this amount of drop without any issues. The T2's also have helper springs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
The ZZYZX are a true motorsports design and use the Koni 8611 DA. That means double adjustability, but the high speed dampening is adjusted with the low.
With the 8611 the bump adjustment is a high speed adjustment. Along with it comes some low speed since they can't be completely separated. I was told by Koni and ProParts that the low speed change is at most 25% of the high speed change. So if you made a full turn on the bump you will have one turn of high speed and only 1/4 turn of low speed. With the T2's, any adjustment will be low speed. High speed is for pot holes. Low speed is for motorsports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
The ZZYZX has a slotted top and bottom hub bolt hole, making it a liiiittle easier to get big meaty tires on the car.
The T2's also have slotted mounting holes to allow us to take advantage of the new ST_ camber rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
The Ohlins have an external resevior for whatever thats worth.
So does one end of the T2's.

All three of these coilovers (Ohlin Flags, RCE T2's, Zzyzx) are going to be awesome. If money is no object then some Koni 28s or triple adjustable Motons or Penskes would be the next category up the price range.
Solotoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2007, 07:56 PM   #112
PKer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 27647
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Default

What is the process for getting Tarmac T2s rebuilt?
PKer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2007, 10:17 PM   #113
BIGSKYWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7958
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Plains of Eastern Montana
Vehicle:
09 GH B+

Default

They're built by KW- so I would guess KW NA would take care of them
BIGSKYWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2007, 10:29 PM   #114
Mykl
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 14311
Join Date: Jan 2002
Vehicle:
2010 GTI
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
While ZZYZX's setup seems sorted, I havent seen them arrive with brake-hose brackets, wire brackets, and other niceties that lend them to "swap on in a couple hours and drive accross the US."

Chris
That's what zip ties are for. So it's "swap on in a couple hours + five minutes and drive across the U.S."

If I was going to build a car to go to nationals in STU...

ZZYZX coilovers
450 lb/in front, 450 lb/in rear
Whiteline 27mm front swaybar (set to soft)
Whiteline 24mm rear swaybar

...and then of course all the other little bits and pieces. But those are the most important ones.
Mykl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2007, 10:51 PM   #115
sciolist
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 50200
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Bend OR
Vehicle:
2004 STi
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solotoy View Post
High speed is for pot holes. Low speed is for motorsports.
Guess I'll just have to hang with the potholes until I can crawl out of the ditch and start participating in motorsports.
sciolist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 03:25 PM   #116
Autoxscott
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138110
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Kent, WA
Vehicle:
2007 Scion TC
Flint Graphite

Default Hey Karl

Autoxscott
Autoxscott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 03:30 PM   #117
Autoxscott
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138110
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Kent, WA
Vehicle:
2007 Scion TC
Flint Graphite

Default Hey Annie

Autoxscott (Scott Miller)
Autoxscott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 03:32 PM   #118
Autoxscott
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138110
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Kent, WA
Vehicle:
2007 Scion TC
Flint Graphite

Default Hey Keith

There that's 3. Now I hope I can post a new thread.

Autoxscott
Autoxscott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2007, 05:13 PM   #119
Impreza01
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152
Join Date: Aug 1999
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default

Why would people want to go with a higher roll resistance in the front? Wouldn't you want more roll resistance in the rear since the STI's DCCD puts out more power to the rear wheels?
Impreza01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2007, 05:24 PM   #120
silver arrow
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Foriderp
Vehicle:
1965 MGB yellow
2008 Black Miata

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impreza01 View Post
Why would people want to go with a higher roll resistance in the front? Wouldn't you want more roll resistance in the rear since the STI's DCCD puts out more power to the rear wheels?
Search "camber curve"
silver arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2007, 06:01 PM   #121
Impreza01
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152
Join Date: Aug 1999
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver arrow View Post
Search "camber curve"
I know about the camber curve issue. However the rear suspension is also a strut suspension, so it should have camber curve issues too, no?
Impreza01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2007, 06:25 PM   #122
silver arrow
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Foriderp
Vehicle:
1965 MGB yellow
2008 Black Miata

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impreza01 View Post
I know about the camber curve issue. However the rear suspension is also a strut suspension, so it should have camber curve issues too, no?
Yes, but you want the rear to rotate. Rear grip isn't an issue in an STi.
silver arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2007, 07:36 PM   #123
DrBiggly
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 11482
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Acute Stickeritis

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impreza01 View Post
I know about the camber curve issue. However the rear suspension is also a strut suspension, so it should have camber curve issues too, no?
The rear wheels aren't on a control arm; they are on lateral links. There might be a camber curve, but with stiffer springs, less weight, and the fact that they are not trying to change the direction of the car means that it is really not much of an issue.

I tend to treat the setup of most Subarus like a FWD car: Focus on front grip first and the rest will follow. Only with an STi one has the magic center diff so that changes what happens on power versus a FWD car. If Annie has two National titles and a ProSolo title, she certainly won't need driving advice and very little in the way of setup advice.

Annie,

I'd make this parts list:
-Zyzzyx coilovers. See if you can get them with 28s perhaps? If you're too impatient for those (depends on how partial you are to Koni) then go for Ohlins/etc. This is assuming you don't want to head into the stratosphere on strut costs and go for Motons/Penskes.
-Swaybars. Pair these to match up the coilovers, depending on if you like bigger bars and softer springs or vice versa. I like bigger bars and a little less spring personally as it means better daily driveability. Locally you will be fast either way. Whitelines are proven, any other suggestions sell a fraction as many.
-Endlinks. The stock are metal pillowball endlinks. They don't exactly have much give despite the huge aftermarket for other endlinks (WRXs and RSs have crappier endlinks in rear and sometimes front is why the market is so large.) If you don't install the rear bar correctly, it'll flip and bend the endlinks, so a purchase of rear endlinks may become necessary, but initially is not in my opinion. Your preference really.
-8" wide wheels, Enkei RPF01 for just over $1k for the set. Quite light really and for the money absolutely cannot be beat. You already know that the sky is the limit here too, but as you said you are keeping the stock seats I will presume you aren't looking for the last 5lbs off of the car.
-Yoko Advan Neovas. I can't recall if you need the 235, 240, or 245 as width changes a bit but height changes dramatically.
-Turbo-back exhaust. There are likely plenty of STX/STU Subarus in your area; nobody has proven to have more or less power by any significant amount with any of them to be honest. 1 high-flow cat of course required for STU.
-Before turbo exhaust: Better response and less lag without headers; a few pounds off the front of the car with them. Careful on trading that; I'd stick with stock. Port stock manifolds if you truly have the itch to optimize the exhaust further as that will make the best power and have the best response. Don't know that swapping the stock uppipe is necessary, I'd not bother for quite a while...if ever.
-K&N Typhoon intake. Subaru ripped it off and called it the SPT, down to the heat shielding. Slap it in, and then modify the shield to extend fully to the hood.
-Engine management. You're waiting here so the debate on that can begin later...and it's a pretty big debate for those options.

Other pieces for feel, not so much speed:

-Engine and transmission mounts. Go find Group N mounts, which are the rally homologated mounts. This will prevent the engine from whacking the hood on hard launches, etc.
-Trunk monkey. Always necessary.
-Bushings. You can swap out bushings for poly all over the place. Easiest and cheapest being the aforementioned steering rack. Previous models of Imprezas (before '05) had floating racks where swapping the jello factory bushings out for poly ones made a great deal of difference in mid-corner feedback and feel. 05 and later racks are bolted down on one side so the ROI is far more limited, but bushings are still made for it. Control arms, rear links, etc are all going to be limited ROI as well. (Note that the engine and transmission mounts will make a much greater difference than any other type replacement of bushing thus why I mentioned them earlier.)

Setup

-Maximize front camber first; don't be afraid of big numbers such as -3 to -4.5. If you really make a lot of time in your braking (and some do) then less here might be more.
-On the limit, it is basically going to push. If you eliminate that completely it should be undriveable in a lot of other places so just expect it.
-Lowering the car will make the camber curve quite awful. Lower as little as absolutely possible as the gains will absolutely not outweigh the positives. Front fenders are cut higher than the rear so the side profile always has the appearance of having the front of the car in the air.

Good luck.

-Biggly
DrBiggly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2007, 08:55 PM   #124
Impreza01
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152
Join Date: Aug 1999
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default

Hrmm, I guess I'm confused a little. When reading the STX set-ups, the national competitors were using higher rates of spring in the rear and larger swaybars in the rear. I figured if the WRX was setup like that by national competitors, then why not the STI given the additional power put out by the rear wheels compared with the front.

Annie: Sorry if I'm sorta hijacking your old thread, but on the otherhand at least something may come to light from this discussion.
Impreza01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2007, 09:23 PM   #125
Banannie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 101199
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
2013 BRZ
Black

Default

Biggly, thanks for the input.

I've been pestering poor Steve at zzyzx with every question under the sun and I think I'm about ready to write the check - he is just dang good when it comes to customer service. I really like the concept behind the Tarmac 2's but with them being an unknown, I don't feel like being the pioneer. I'm hoping if I end up with a known quantity setup that others have, that we can share setup information - while I have jackets and more trophies than I can keep track of, virtually all are in stock class, so I do need info/advice etc when branching into the wild world of non-stock...

And Impreza01, no worries on hijacking - it's interesting to see people ask and get answers to questions.

Hey all - I tried finding the 17x9 Kosei's on Tire Rack's website and it just doesn't want to let me find them - when I put in the '07 STI it doesn't give it as an option, and going right to the Kosei part of their website I can't look at sizing until I again put in the car info. Help???
Banannie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Air Force Guys Check-in (other branches welcome) joosrsx Off-Topic 293 05-01-2010 10:36 PM
northwest connecticut guys check in 09wrxtorrington New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 6 08-12-2009 02:46 PM
New Guy Checking In mmormino Newbies & FAQs 3 02-14-2009 12:07 PM
New guy checking in amfj231 Newbies & FAQs 7 12-22-2008 09:13 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.