Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday February 18, 2020
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2020, 08:14 PM   #1
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default Anyone here seen Cam Carriers Leaking?

2005 Sti ej25
OEM short block build
Sent off heads to machine shop
-shop does head work for multiple dealerships in Houston area(well recommended)

After everything put back together, have annoying seepage leak
I’m looking at a ziplock bag of on my work bench of 16(!) cam seals
2 times done by engine builder
2 times by myself

Car runs great......can’t take to tuners with this seepage leak
700 miles on new engine

Pools on left side most notably on curve of L side of exhaust cam carrier
Then drips down on valve cover
(Valve cover gaskets replaced 3 times BTW b4 My 2attempts for cam seals re-installs)

I searched and searched
Only found minimal info on FB motors leaking from cam carriers

I’m just ‘loading my guns’ b4 presenting info to head shop

So far my next step:
Bought ‘black lite’
Going to dump that oil dye in to search for seepage

Thanks for any input
Steven
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 02-12-2020, 09:44 PM   #2
08SpecB_DE
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 470981
Join Date: Jul 2017
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy GT spec
DGM

Default

Did you use OEM gaskets and use rtv on the spots indicated in the fsm? I'll try looking for a diagram if you're not aware of what I'm referring to.
08SpecB_DE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 02:05 AM   #3
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

On the 4 (counting...) cam seal changes....yes

The heads.....were not done by me. So I cannot say
That is my dilemma

The seepage is (on L side) is in between intake and exhaust cam seals
In front of the valve cover gasket....on curved portion of cam carrier.
Same on Seepage on RSide too......easier to see on L side
(If I figure out L side......R side will be easy once I understand the issue)
AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 02:06 AM   #4
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

Sorry Spec8......yes all OE gaskets and seals
And Fugi Bond

Last edited by AliBenn; 02-13-2020 at 02:08 AM. Reason: Details
AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 12:36 PM   #5
Turn in Concepts
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 93646
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
Many Track Records
Let us help you go fast!

Default

I'm having a hard time picturing in my head from your description. Can you post a pic?
Turn in Concepts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 01:02 PM   #6
Jedi03
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 491095
Join Date: Sep 2018
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle:
2009 STi Blue
Blue

Default

thats really frustrating...I usually spin them on while pressing in to prevent damage...if that's good then check if its leaking from inner portion or outer portion of seal...outer fix w/gasket maker, inner means either cam is bent or caps loose with sometimes head being bent. basically cam is wiggling around and leaking oil out
Jedi03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 12:00 AM   #7
08SpecB_DE
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 470981
Join Date: Jul 2017
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy GT spec
DGM

Default

I know exactly where you're talking about. Made the mistake of letting the machine assemble the longblock as well. Less than a year later I had to pull the motor back out and tear everything down to reseal. Perhaps the area wasn't cleaned properly or the rtv was not put in the correct spots.

I have a pic of the diagram but no clue how to post the pic.

Last edited by 08SpecB_DE; 02-14-2020 at 12:09 AM.
08SpecB_DE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 12:12 AM   #8
08SpecB_DE
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 470981
Join Date: Jul 2017
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy GT spec
DGM

Default

Here we go!
08SpecB_DE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 10:35 AM   #9
Turn in Concepts
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 93646
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
Many Track Records
Let us help you go fast!

Default

Dangit. For some reason I read that as you're having a 2015 WRX. No wonder your description made no sense to me.

There's a few gotchas when you do the EJ cam carriers.

1) you have to make sure the RTV is on the inboard side of the dowels.
2) you need to make sure that it goes all the way out to the front edge so it's beyond the press fit of the cam seal.
3) if it's the actual cam seal you may be lipping it when you install. I like to put a touch of oil on the seal and spin it around on the cam before I press it home to make sure I didn't lip it.
4) I have seen (very rarely) instances where the cam is scored across the sealing surface. This is usually the result of mis-handling during disassembly or they get banged on while waiting for reinstall.
Turn in Concepts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 07:43 PM   #10
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

^^^^^funny you should mention scoring on cams

I spent 45mins sanding down scoring
got it looking much better.....but never-the-less
shop tht installed motor(not head shop) pretty much looked like they used a vise grip to get out cam seals......then when I brought back car for this oil seepage and told him YOU NEED TO INSTALL NEW CAM SEALS...….he did the work with a "I don't give a crap attitude"

figured I would/will have to tear down again...…..UGH
(getting pretty fast at this T-belt crap)

I really think I got 2 issues
cam seals and possibly cam carrier seeping

there is a ledge right above the oil build up where cam carrier meets head
the ledge is dry.....if wet with oil then would potentially be intake cam seal(again)
but its dry.....pointing to be to cam carrier

guess my plan is this:
-dye oil
-teardown for 5th time
-search for the original seep or seeps



my plan is
-dye oil
AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 07:45 PM   #11
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

i will see if my buddie (Americanyouth ) can post some pix for me
(he has been helping me from CA......im in TX)

im an old fart.....cant post pix

Last edited by AliBenn; 02-14-2020 at 08:08 PM. Reason: Screen name
AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 07:46 PM   #12
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

one more Q

is it possible to remove/reseal cam carriers with motor still in car?

thanks all
AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 08:11 PM   #13
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 08:13 PM   #14
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 08:16 PM   #15
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 08:21 PM   #16
jamesfacts
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51282
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Highland Park, LA
Vehicle:
98 RS
black & blue from parking

Default

Let's try these





jamesfacts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 08:22 PM   #17
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

Thanks James!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 08:30 PM   #18
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

So
The pix with the pointer, that is where oil seeps, pools and runs down to valve cover.
Then if driving......blows to rear of car, making it look like valve cover leaks.
Now back to the pointer pix
Just above the tip of pointer, there is a 10mm cam carrier bolt.
That is the ‘upside down’ ledge I’m typing about
If I place finger up to the ledge, it’s dry.
How is oil pooling below??

Y’all see scoring on cam ends....it’s bad
So I might have 2 issues
AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2020, 11:45 PM   #19
08SpecB_DE
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 470981
Join Date: Jul 2017
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy GT spec
DGM

Default

How did rtv get all over the old seals? You COULD pull the carriers off in the engine bay but it would probably take longer than pulling the motor.
08SpecB_DE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 12:55 AM   #20
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

Idiot engine builder guilty of RTV
Then after I confronted him on the same topic.....
I.E. “install the seals correctly”
He got butt hurt and ripped seals off with vise grip...from the look of the cam ends.

I told my Subaru buddies the same
I’m just plan embarrassed even mentioning
They all said “get the car outa there”
Which I did.

Then I tore it down twice....4more cam seal installs so far
I’m sure another in the future
Jesus
I just don’t have the room for engine hoist (nor have)

Wanna see if experts(you B motor guys) think seals or cam carriers or both
Then gonna have to call in some major chips.....

Last edited by AliBenn; 02-16-2020 at 01:04 AM. Reason: Tg
AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 11:25 AM   #21
motorbykemike
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 273868
Join Date: Feb 2011
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Default

i see new cams in your future

the ones in the pics are torn up bad
motorbykemike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 09:18 PM   #22
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

^^^sad thing is.....that one pictured wasn’t the worse one
Terrific.
AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 09:25 PM   #23
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

So trying to summarize
If mating surface of cams to cam seals are that scored up.....
Oil seepage leak will always be present
No matter what type of sanding on cam ends
AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:34 PM   #24
Turn in Concepts
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 93646
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
Many Track Records
Let us help you go fast!

Default

Thin coating of RTV all the way out to the edges.
Assemble.
Let dry for a bit
Remove the squeeze out CAREFULLY with a razor
The scoring you have on the cam sealing surface is no good. You're gonna need cams that aren't beat up.
Turn in Concepts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 06:09 PM   #25
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

terrific
yet another documentation/bad conversation I need to have with shop owner
ugh

in everyone's professional opinion:
"no amount of sanding is going to make the 'cam to seal' surface "oil tight"
^^^correct?
AliBenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.