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Old 02-04-2020, 07:00 PM   #201
SeeeeeYa
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Good feedback here. I think tomorrow I'm going to stop by the dealership and ask them if I can test drive an Ascent. I'm already pretty cool with most people there, and I'll swing my Subaru Ambassador d a little bit in hopes of it helping.
I'm very curious about what you find. I was thinking of the same... but without leverage.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:03 PM   #202
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I don't need to drive one. You have one. At light throttle. What's the behavior? You tell me. You mention it's got enough low end torque, so it should be CVTing at the same RPMs. So, 1/4 throttle. Just a bit more for a little bit. Then just a bit more for a little bit (again). Add on until it says "ok, now we're going from constant RPM to "fake shift".

That you're only guessing, tells me you haven't really paid attention to your driving when driving it, and using the quote above, you're treating the right pedal as an on/off switch, and you know you're aggressive with the throttle input, or more specifically, HOW it switches its fake gears (you're mentioning the jerkiness of it). So, is it the jerkiness of it you don't like, or... that it does it at all (the latter I've explained why it doesn't hold constant above).

That's the *exact* experience I and SeeeeYa have been saying which you have been denouncing. Even in the Impreza, when you're higher in the revs like 3k or higher RPM, when you have more right foot, and/or when you mash it quickly, THAT'S WHEN the a) it logically makes sense to "fake shift" and b) when it actually happens.

But, if you drive like a normal-ish person, try keeping it 2/3 throttle or less, and I bet it will keep your Ascent at normal CVT behavior/constant RPM like a CVT should be.

How about maybe trying that for a bit and get back to us? For testing/science sake, not a right/wrong.

--kC

No I don’t treat the throttle like and on/off switch.
Yes I have all of my digital throttle position displays and temps up all the time.

Just go freakin’ drive one, or don’t - I don’t give a ****.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:25 AM   #203
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Thanks for the setting of the gauge. Where I thought it felt like 2/3 throttle, it was actually around 1/2 (45% or so), so less than I had thought to get the car into "fake shift mode".

Most of my throttle in the Impreza for what I feel to be normal pull away from red lights/stop signs is in the 20-35% range, so no wonder I rarely saw the fake shift. So that means I was overestimating the throttle needed to get into it, and at the same time, realized "wow, I haven't been NEEDING to give the car much throttle to actually get going nicely." Double edged sword? So, sitting here, I have to think (until I test drive one) that y'all are giving the 2.4T more throttle than needed, I wonder if you're trying to overcome boost lag?

One thing I will look for, is if there's a difference in programming once the car comes out of warm-up mode. It did feel, yesterday after work and this morning, that it shifts *more* and at lower RPMs, until the car is past the warm-up programming. After a few minutes, the RPMs stopped climbing and stayed more steady at the same RPM/pedal position. I.e., for cold start, the RPMs are allowed to "climb" like a traditional AT (hypothetically, to allow RPMs to heat the engine and warm the oil faster?). Once warmed up, it operates like your typical CVT.

--kC
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Old 02-05-2020, 09:13 AM   #204
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So, sitting here, I have to think (until I test drive one) that y'all are giving the 2.4T more throttle than needed, I wonder if you're trying to overcome boost lag?

--kC
Do you not freakin read? Or is it a comprehension thing? Or both?

I have said in three different posts, 80% of the time, with normal driving, it’s a non-issue.
During spirited driving or while having to make a maneuver (getting around a left-lane camper for instance) merging into traffic with a short on-ramp etc (something that requires heavy throttle) is when the fake shift stuff rears it’s head.
Has nothing to do with lag. There is very little lag with the FA24DIT anyway.
This is all TCM programming.
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Old 02-05-2020, 09:48 AM   #205
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The Impreza definitely has RPM "idling" in the cold.

Also, Brahmzy lives at a higher altitude, so that might factor into things. But, I'm no smart guy. I just play one on TV.
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:15 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
The Impreza definitely has RPM "idling" in the cold.

Also, Brahmzy lives at a higher altitude, so that might factor into things. But, I'm no smart guy. I just play one on TV.
??? Wut?
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:23 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
The Impreza definitely has RPM "idling" in the cold.

Also, Brahmzy lives at a higher altitude, so that might factor into things. But, I'm no smart guy. I just play one on TV.
Oh, there we go. Yep. I was just out there last week. Altitude definitely plays a big part in performance and should be kept in mind when comparing. And yes, I didn't even notice that.

Brahmzy, all my experience with Subaru is at nicely thick sea level atmosphere. I've only driven a Subaru once in Colorado. Your results may in fact be very different than those of us in thicker atmosphere.

You can say I don't read at all. That's fine. But you still haven't regarded my explanations, during spirited driving that 20% of the time, why they should be fake shifting. You can ignore it, complain about it, or disregard it until you're blue in the face, but at greater throttle inputs during spirited driving, that 20% of the time, it would be bad for the engine to stay at 5-6K rpm continuously, like a CVT. They're saving your engine from you by doing the "fake shift" using preset ratios, allowing the RPMs to drop "between gears".

--kC
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:30 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
??? Wut?
It's not smooth, my fellow! I just woke up, give me a break! It kind of spikes around or hesitates. I know it sounds oxymoronic, but that's all I can think up at the moment. I typically use autostart, so I don't get many opportunities to just jump in and drive while the engine is still cold. Maybe I'll try today before the Ascent test drive.
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Old 02-05-2020, 11:25 AM   #209
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The term "Fake Shifting" has always irked me. Seriously.

No, the CVT has no gears... you know, cogs, that must be finagled into meshing. Synchros, gear face angles, driver skill, linkages and clutch dancing. You know, ancient methods, however refined. A CVT is modern technology using computerized, integrated systems in which ALL elements of motive power are optimized. No longer are the engine, transmission, and wheels compromised by the inefficiencies of human conduct.

Once a CVT's torque converter locks up just after take off it's as mechanical a connection to the wheels as a gear box. It's changing of ratios is done smoothly and provides discrete rpm ranges that enable the driver the same vehicular control as the toothed gears in a manual transmission. A CVT's ratio changes are made in milliseconds, by computers and hydraulics, eliminating human errors. No chassis upsetting, no jerking, no time lost in execution.

It's like criticizing modern fuel injection in comparison to a carburetor, ABS and TCS vs human skill. and EyeSight vs the composite human ability.

It's an absurd conversation in progress every time Fake Shift comes up. CVTs have been a part of the automotive world for a long time now. They've proven more reliable than any other transmission in history, providing superior gas mileage and performance for the driving public.

Is the CVT the answer for all automotive endeavors? Of course it's not. But it is an excellent solution for most mundane vehicular needs in today's world. So just stop with the meme-like parroting of Fake Shifts already. Don't like it, change cars. Simple.
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Old 02-05-2020, 11:43 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
It's not smooth, my fellow! I just woke up, give me a break! It kind of spikes around or hesitates. I know it sounds oxymoronic, but that's all I can think up at the moment. I typically use autostart, so I don't get many opportunities to just jump in and drive while the engine is still cold. Maybe I'll try today before the Ascent test drive.
Sorry. I read through the sleepy part. lol I was referring to any undue idling you might have.

I have the most perfectly (here it comes ) Subaru I've owned in my Impreza.... but that's a qualified statement. One, it was not this way when I bought it: It became that way after my ignition recall ECU reprogramming.

Before, it wasn't without criticism... evidencing what I interpret as your observations. But afterward, once I start the car and wait the 20-30 seconds for the idle to drop... it's engine runs perfectly in every way. In every temperature. From the moment I drive away.

I'll confess one other qualifier: I doctor my fuel. I can elaborate on PM.

All I'm saying is, MY '19 Impreza Limited is the slickest running Subaru I've ever owned... now. There is no reason for any Impreza owner to accept less.
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:09 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
Oh, there we go. Yep. I was just out there last week. Altitude definitely plays a big part in performance and should be kept in mind when comparing. And yes, I didn't even notice that.

Brahmzy, all my experience with Subaru is at nicely thick sea level atmosphere. I've only driven a Subaru once in Colorado. Your results may in fact be very different than those of us in thicker atmosphere.

You can say I don't read at all. That's fine. But you still haven't regarded my explanations, during spirited driving that 20% of the time, why they should be fake shifting. You can ignore it, complain about it, or disregard it until you're blue in the face, but at greater throttle inputs during spirited driving, that 20% of the time, it would be bad for the engine to stay at 5-6K rpm continuously, like a CVT. They're saving your engine from you by doing the "fake shift" using preset ratios, allowing the RPMs to drop "between gears".

--kC
I disagree that higher engine RPM is bad for the engine. The engine is designed to be run within the redline. Barring any design flaw, doing so will cause zero harm to the engine.

The CVT, on the other hand, likely experiences more wear while fake-shifting than constantly varying the ratio to maintain RPM while MPH rises. It seems very hard to me for anyone to argue that changing ratios (likely as quickly as design allows) to a set lower ratio (lower RPM), slighly delaying the ratio change to allow for engine RPM to rise, then again rapidly shifting to another ratio, multiple times, is beneficial to anything but us humans and our desire to have a transmission that shifts "gears".

//

With all of the useless fluff in this thread, it's hard to follow answers to important questions that some of us have, like when exactly the latest turbo-CVT applications begin fake-shifting.

Is it true that the Ascent doesn't shift all the time; only when you've exceeded a certain throttle input (to keep it simple)? If true, then it sounds like Subaru hasn't changed much since my '15 Legacy (FB25) was programmed. In this case, as has been mentioned, the CVT acts like a CVT for the majority of DD'ing. The fake-shifting isn't horrible when ~ 25% throttle is exceeded but becomes extremely annoying and rubbery-bandy anywhere close to WOT. In this case, the CVT acting like a traditional slush-box is pretty stupid, because of its slow behavior and because it likely puts more stress on the CVT components.

//

I'm sticking with the 'fake-shifting' nomenclature, btw. I think anyone who is comparing the behavior of a CVT to a traditional AT will immediately pick up on what is meant. I find it to be clearer than 'simulated shifts'. Besides, those of us who have been discussing/complaining about this, ad nauseum, know that the CVT is literally shifting ratios, so it's not about that; it's about clear and concise nomenclature...well, that and annoying those who don't like calling it 'fake-shifts'
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:13 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
Once a CVT's torque converter locks up just after take off it's as mechanical a connection to the wheels as a gear box.
Not quite. Subaru uses a clutch after the CVT output pulley before the front diff. The whole engine/trans can be disconnected from the wheels. It has to so that the pulleys can shift. Anytime the CVT is changing ratios both pulleys are moving. Depending on the load, the clutch Is modulated to slip allowing the pulley to shift.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:49 PM   #213
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I disagree that higher engine RPM is bad for the engine. The engine is designed to be run within the redline. Barring any design flaw, doing so will cause zero harm to the engine.
There's a difference between running TO redline and then away from it again, vs. holding it AT/NEAR redline (which "normal" CVT would do based on throttle position). The pre-programmed ratios allow it to fall off from near redline momentarily to a lower RPM.

Question, what's better... CVT holding RPMs at ideal/optimum torque? Or, CVT holding RPMs at ideal/optimum HP? (Keeping in mind, they're rarely the same). Or, keep it at 5252? So... why doesn't it?

--kC
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Old 02-05-2020, 03:13 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
There's a difference between running TO redline and then away from it again, vs. holding it AT/NEAR redline (which "normal" CVT would do based on throttle position). The pre-programmed ratios allow it to fall off from near redline momentarily to a lower RPM.

Question, what's better... CVT holding RPMs at ideal/optimum torque? Or, CVT holding RPMs at ideal/optimum HP? (Keeping in mind, they're rarely the same). Or, keep it at 5252? So... why doesn't it?

--kC
Longevity and fuel economy - peak torque as it's likely a lower RPM
Acceleration - peak horsepower

Why it doesn't: because Tom Doll says so. In reality though, it's probably some combination of preservation, emissions, AND GARBAGE ENGINE & TRANSMISSION TUNING. I don't see a CVT ever coming into my life, so I have done zero research on the matter.
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Old 02-05-2020, 06:46 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
Not quite. Subaru uses a clutch after the CVT output pulley before the front diff. The whole engine/trans can be disconnected from the wheels. It has to so that the pulleys can shift. Anytime the CVT is changing ratios both pulleys are moving. Depending on the load, the clutch Is modulated to slip allowing the pulley to shift.

Peace,

Greg
It is rewarding to see when someone knows their stuff, as you obviously do.

But I included that in what I said, despite the lack of those specifics. What I'm saying is, The TC has nothing to do with the too-often lame comment about "rubbery" and "rubber band" operation. Sure it has clutches that are involved with the shifting of the CVT mechanism.... but those shifts occurs in ~150 ms, as opposed to the relatively clumsy, non-specific time to execute an average MT gear change. There is nothing "rubbery" related about how a Subaru CVT works, and anyone voicing those comments labels themselves uninformed.

And, as I'm sure you also know, those are not the only clutches in a CVT.

The point is, the CVT is faster, more reliable, and more consistent at providing transmission duties than a MT... but moreover, enables not just a computer-enabled synergy between the engine and transmission, but a large array of safety related technology unavable to a MT vehicle. That's given, of course, the discussion is limited to Subarus and their choice of transmissions. Any arguments in dissent belong in forums other-than Subaru ones, or OT rants.

Thanks as always for you cogent posts.

Peace.
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:06 PM   #216
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Longevity and fuel economy - peak torque as it's likely a lower RPM
Acceleration - peak horsepower

Why it doesn't: because Tom Doll says so. In reality though, it's probably some combination of preservation, emissions, AND GARBAGE ENGINE & TRANSMISSION TUNING. I don't see a CVT ever coming into my life, so I have done zero research on the matter.
To help you better understand KC's point:

It's not just the engine's longevity involved here... it's also the CVT's. Here's how I know: excessive heat kills CVTs, and from empirical observation there is a direct correlation between engine RPM and CVT temps. Specifically, when it is cold out as it has been here, oil temp takes forever to warm up driving normally. If I want to use the mileage I put the CVT in manual mode and use the paddles to work the engine's upper range. This heats the CVT up, and by doing so also heats the engine oil up. This is even more apparent in the mountains when the CVT works harder in the upper ranges, keeping the engine RPM as low as possible... and the oil temps get to their highest, absorbing the CVT heat on top of the engine's.

Is the converse true as well? To some degree, but all things equal it is the work the CVT has to do that heats it up and working it at higher RPMs heats it the most. Since it is cooled by engine oil, one affects the other, of course, but... the engine's temperature is controlled by a totally separate coolent system and radiator. The extra heat produced by working the CVT's gears, which necessarily occurs under power or increased loads imposed by greater throttle angles, is passed onto the coolant system and raises the oil temp.

That's why it's best for the CVT to NOT remain at higher engine RPMs, which the separate ratios mitigate.
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Old 02-05-2020, 11:30 PM   #217
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Figures the car was super smooth tonight. I was experimenting and watching the throttle position gauge at various throttle inputs and is was smooth sailing. Pulled hard too. It’s been witch’s tit cold here (-2 this mornin’, teens tonight). I’ll pay a bit more attention in the days to come. I can say I noticed no FAKE SHIFTS under 50% throttle - was typical Subaru CVT. Had only 2 opportunities to get on the gas hard - neither were WOT.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:53 PM   #218
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Old 02-07-2020, 09:21 PM   #219
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Outside of the huge tablet, that's a nice looking interior.
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:05 PM   #220
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There's a difference between running TO redline and then away from it again, vs. holding it AT/NEAR redline (which "normal" CVT would do based on throttle position). The pre-programmed ratios allow it to fall off from near redline momentarily to a lower RPM.

Question, what's better... CVT holding RPMs at ideal/optimum torque? Or, CVT holding RPMs at ideal/optimum HP? (Keeping in mind, they're rarely the same). Or, keep it at 5252? So... why doesn't it?

--kC
1. When it comes to engine longevity there is ZERO difference between running TO and holding AT redline - redline is redline. Besides, the actual time at redline is counted in seconds, not minutes.

2. HP and torque are related, so your question is meaningless. The engine RPM and CVT ratio is 100% relative to how fast you want to accelerate, so asking a question about hypothetical torque and HP is ridiculous.

Also, there's a reason why there's a requested TORQUE table, but not a requested HP table - pick one...it doesn't matter.

3. I would pay to have the CVT in my '15 Legacy act like the HTCVT in my '14 FXT. Without the turbo, this effectively means I'd be happier with a CVT that kept the engine at redline at WOT instead of (poorly) simulating shifts. Do YOU think that the added heat generation and inefficiencies while rapidly (again, likely as rapidly as possible) shifting ratios and lowering of ~ 800 RPM at a time to simulate shifts create a faster acceleration???? I sure as hell don't!

Note: most AT's don't reach redline, so, in reality, the CVT would maintain engine at redline minus 500+ RPM at WOT.

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Old 02-14-2020, 09:18 PM   #221
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its not "fake shifting"....its ratio shifting. Dropping the mike. LOL
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:32 PM   #222
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its not "fake shifting"....its ratio shifting. Dropping the mike. LOL
It's ratio shifting, regardless of whether it's fake-shifting or not. One is an efficient shifting of ratios and one is ****ing stupid...
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:31 AM   #223
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One is an efficient shifting of ratios and one is ****ing stupid...
...speaking of ****ing stupid, my Ascent was really acting up today on the ****ing stupid fake shifts. Some days are worse than others - that’s a fact. Almost like ambient temp can change how it decides to ‘shift’.
There is a point, partial throttle, where it can just start shifting wildly and jumping and jerking around. This is noted/verified by others on the Ascent forums.
Some days it’s easily replicated, others not so much. Again, always with more spirited driving. I also think/know the current speed before the spirited driving begins directly affects the fake shifting behavior.
When it isn’t fake shifting, it’s as amazing as my ‘14 FXT was. Super smooth, holding rpms dead on the fat torque spot, glorious. Wish it was that way all the time dammit.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:47 AM   #224
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Default [WRX S4, Outback, Adrenaline !!] New cars expected of Subaru in 2021 !!!




Quote:
Looking at the new car calendar for 2020, interviewed with the best cars, new models such as the Impreza STI Sport, with the new Levogue as the lead, are scheduled to appear, but in 2021, there are signs that it will be even more exciting.

A full model change of the WRX S4, "VIZIV ADRENALINE CONCEPT" is a flagship if there is a new model that centers on the new adrenaline and Subaru's new design concept "BOLDER (=" bold ")" "Wait for waiting") There will be a "return" of the Legacy Outback and new models with enough topicality.
Let me introduce one by one. The year 2021 is likely to be a year of further pursuit of Subaru's ideal of "security and enjoyment."

■ 2020 Subaru new car appearance calendar
January Revogue 2.0GT Eyesight V Sports (special edition) , Impreza, XV (minor change)
September New Levorg
October Subaru Impreza STI Sports (additional model)
■ 2021 Subaru new car appearance schedule calendar
April New WRX S4, new Legacy Outback, Levog 2.4L direct injection turbo
December Adrenaline
● [Image gallery] The main pillar and the rising star… !! Check out the Subaru 2021 lineup in the gallery !!!
* This article is from January 2020. The new car schedule reflects the results of our editorial department and distribution journalist Toru Endo interviewing each manufacturer and new car dealer as of January 2020, and may flow as the release date approaches. . The new car announcement schedule will be updated as new information becomes available. Sentence: Best Car Editorial Department / Photos / Forecast CG: Best Car Editorial Department First Appearance: “Best Car” February 10, 2020 Issue

■ Subaru new WRX S4 (scheduled to debut in April 2021)

● Equipped with a newly developed downsizing direct injection turbo. Does Evolved EyeSight Realize Hands-Off Drive?
In the latter half of 2020, the new Levorg 1.8L direct-injection turbo appeared. A few months later, the WRX S4 undergoes a full model change.



Exterior designed with Subaru's new design concept "BOLDER". The positioning of the Levogue as a sedan version will not change in the next model (image is the best car expected CG)

In addition to the newly developed 1.8L direct-injection turbo that is the same as Levorg, a 2.4L direct-injection turbo is also available.
The 1.8L is likely to be around 200ps and the 2.4L will be around 270ps, but it will be an engine that emphasizes torque characteristics and fuel efficiency over the maximum output.

The combined transmission is an evolutionary Lineartronic (CVT).
Of course, it uses the Subaru Global Platform (SGP), which has excellent rigidity and exercise performance, and uses a newly developed full inner frame structure.

It realizes overwhelming body rigidity that greatly exceeds the conventional type.



Equipped with a 2.4L direct injection turbo used for ascent sold in the United States. The spec is expected to be around 270ps / 40.8kgm

Eyesight also evolved. The newly developed stereo camera with a wider angle and 360-degree sensing with four front and rear radars greatly improve safety. Development seems to be proceeding with a view to hands-off on expressways.
The design is sharp and adopts Subaru's new design concept "BOLDER".

Sports sedans with a focus on the Japanese market are precious, and their appearance is long awaited.

■ Subaru WRX S4 expected specifications・ Length × Width × Height: 4650mm × 1800mm × 1480mm
・ Wheel base: 2675mm
・ Vehicle weight: 1500kg
・ Engine: Horizontally opposed 4-cylinder DOHC 2.4L + turbo ・ Maximum output: 270ps / 6000rpm
・ Maximum torque: 40.8kgm / 4000rpm
・ Price: 3,000,000-4,000,000 yen
■ Subaru New Legacy Outback (Debut scheduled for April 2021)

-Subaru's flagship SUV is renewed. Dynamic texture is greatly improved by adopting SGP while keeping concept!

The current model is a legacy outback of a popular car that continues to sell well in North America even at the end of the model. The Subaru SUV flagship model in Japan is finally undergoing a full model change.



Next-generation Legacy Outback, premiered at the 2019 New York Show. In North America, the engine is a two-story engine with a horizontally opposed 2.5 L NA and a 2.4 L turbo loaded on North American exclusive ascent
Outback came from the second generation Legacy Grand Wagon, the third generation Legacy was Lancaster, and the fourth generation Legacy was named Outback, and has consistently gained popularity as a legacy crossover model.

The next model has been released at the New York show in April 2019, but its exterior is basically a normal evolution version of the current model, keep concept.



The next-generation legacy outback that uses a newly developed Subaru Global
Platform (SGP) to further enhance the dynamic texture from the current model
The theme is "to stimulate intellectual curiosity", and the platform is "SGP (Subaru Global Platform)".




The engine uses a horizontally opposed 4-cylinder brushed up from the current model, a 2.5L DOHC, a 3-row seat SUV exclusively for North America, a horizontally opposed 4-cylinder of 260ps / 38.8kgm also used in the ascent, a 2.4L turbo. .

However, whether or not this turbo engine will be introduced into the Japanese market is currently in a delicate situation. Its body size is slightly larger, 4860 x 1855 x 1680 mm.

Next-generation legacy outback interior with a large vertical display of 11.6 inches
■ Subaru Adrenaline (scheduled to debut in December 2021)

This adrenaline is a model released by Subaru on the coupe SUV, which has become a hot seller in the global market.

“BOLDER” is the keyword for Subaru's first gorgeous coupe-style crossover SUV.
The design combines Boulder (bold) elements with "Dynamic x Solid" promoted by Subaru.

The flowing body line is eye-catching, but it also has a tough and rugged image like an SUV. The power unit has a rich dual feature of 2L mild hybrid and 2L horizontally opposed NA.

Although it is expected to appear in 2021, there are still many fluid parts, and there is a possibility that it will be in 2022 or later



`` VIZIV adrenaline concept '' exhibited at the 2019 Geneva show will be the basis of this new SUV


[Extra scoop! ] At the same timing as the WRX S4, the NEW Revogue 2.4L direct injection turbo also appeared!

It is the same as the current model that Revogue debuts earlier than the WRX S4.
The new Levorg will first launch a newly-developed horizontally opposed 4-cylinder 1.8-liter direct-injection turbo model later this year (expected December 2020), and at the same time as the 2021 debut of the new WRX S4, a 2.4-liter direct-injection turbo Is scheduled to be added.
The content of the car is almost the same as the WRX S4, adopting a new chassis with SGP + full inner frame structure, and equipped with an advanced eyesight.



The new Levorg was unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show last year. A 1.8L direct injection turbo will appear later this year
● [Image gallery] The main pillar and the rising star… !! Check out the Subaru 2021 lineup in the gallery !!!
◎ Limited articles are also being delivered! The best car web "LINE @" has started!
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AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2020, 06:56 AM   #225
AVANTI R5
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Unbelievable..Spend about half hour putting up article all photos by hand only to have it lost because I get hit with checking to see if I’m a robot. Not once but Five in row..check chimney , check squares with cars, check crosswalks..then it got lost..that was just to review like a fool I do it again , only to have it lost again when hitting post button, because I was hit with security again.. check all boxes with chimneys , check boxes with busses , check, traffic lights, Jesus Christ, 5 questions first time..OK I’m not a Robot, Second later I got to go through it again. Of course it wasn’t some stupid one liners.. No it has to be one with a lot time into it..AND I didn’t post multiple times to even trigger that Robot crap..
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