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05-21-2013, 06:27 PM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 261241
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Vehicle:2014 C63 AMG Black |
Built VS Quick Power
All,
I just purchased a 2010 STI last month at 25k miles, I'm looking to track the car, and I have some questions about the reliability of a built motor, VS adding power to stock internals. Don't get me wrong. I really enjoy the car currently; love the way it drives and handles. It has quite a bit of power stock, but feels very inconsistent at times (sortof like turbolag, but not really), and this really worries me as I am looking to mod the car. My end goal is 350whp with supporting suspension mods. I went and spoke to my tuner, and he says the inconsistency I'm feeling is a result of the crappy stock tune. He also says the stock pistons that aren't great either. This was disconcerting for me. I used to own a 06' WRX and it sounds like the STI motor isn't that much better or even different. He then went and attempted to sell me a built shortblock with forged pistons and rods. The idea makes sense to me, because adding power to a built motor, sounds like it would be a hell of a lot more reliable. Also I should point out I can afford a built motor if you guys think its the way I should go (recently received a large bonus ) My questions are: 1. Is there anyway to tell how long the stock motor with stock internals would last on 350WHP? Is that too much power for a stock engine? (from the way the tuner spoke, he sounded like the stock tune ALONE was bad for the engine) 2. How long will a built motor last? Even though they can handle a lot more abuse, people have told me that sometimes the stock internals last longer than forged. 3. Lastly, If I were to have reliable 350whp, what is required and how much? I am considering everything. any input here is great. thanks guys
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05-21-2013, 06:45 PM | #2 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 353343
Join Date: Apr 2013
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Suburb of Chicago
Vehicle:'13 WRX Sedan Stg 3 '13 Prius C 86mpg! |
More power = Less reliability.
Do a stage 2 build (intake, accessport/tune and turboback exhaust) and the suspension work you want. That should put you in the whp range you're looking for. Then when if/when it blows up get the built motor. Or sell your stock motor and get the built motor. There's no real way to know for sure how long anything will last, especially if it's tracked. It's completely up to you as to which route you want to go. |
05-21-2013, 06:57 PM | #3 |
Medium Frank
Moderator Member#: 140114
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Common Sense, VA
Vehicle:2020 Subaru Outback |
1. No way to tell. Every engine is different and your best bet is to flip a coin to decide. A good way to go about it is mod the car for what you want, but save money for the motor build for when it pops.
2. This is where you need to do research. How much of a "built" motor are we talking? Drop in pistons only? (weakest part of motor) Full crank, rods, pistons, valves etc? No one can tell how long ANY motor is going to last as there are far too many variables. 3. Can't answer again. Each build is different. Find a tuner, speak with them in great detail about what you want, what your budget is, and how much down time you can put up with. |
05-21-2013, 07:02 PM | #4 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 261241
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Vehicle:2014 C63 AMG Black |
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05-21-2013, 07:04 PM | #5 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 335146
Join Date: Oct 2012
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: LaPlata, MD
Vehicle:2004 STi PSM |
Perhaps instead of saying "I want 350whp", you should mod the car until it feels fast enough for you rather than aiming for x whp.
If I was you I would give stage 2 a try and see where you want to go from there. You may find that going stage 2 is good enough for you. |
05-21-2013, 07:04 PM | #6 |
Scooby Specialist
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Every car/dyno is different. But you'll be close to your 350whp goal.
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05-21-2013, 07:05 PM | #7 | |
Scooby Newbie
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Quote:
In regards to your second answer the built motor I was looking at has CP Forged Pistons, pins, and rings ACL Race Series Bearings STI Forged Connecting Rods STI Forged Crankshart Balanced and Polished crank, rods, and pistons CNC Precision Bore and Hone with torque plates |
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05-21-2013, 07:06 PM | #8 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 335146
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05-21-2013, 07:08 PM | #9 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 261241
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Vehicle:2014 C63 AMG Black |
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05-21-2013, 07:11 PM | #10 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 261241
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Vehicle:2014 C63 AMG Black |
Quote:
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05-21-2013, 07:14 PM | #11 |
Scooby Specialist
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If you do it all at once it's like gaining an extra 65-80whp. Just a stage 1 map would be a night and day difference.
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05-21-2013, 07:17 PM | #12 | |
Scooby Specialist
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Quote:
From what I understand its a pretty significant difference. Here's a video on YouTube comparing them. (This is not my video) |
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05-21-2013, 07:20 PM | #13 |
Scooby Specialist
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There's the different power levels on a dyno. |
05-21-2013, 08:41 PM | #14 |
Medium Frank
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Vehicle:2020 Subaru Outback |
Cobb's website has a dyno database, and we have PROVEN POWER BRAGGING forum. Read/search through those to get an idea. Start small, do a Stage 2 setup (tune and downpipe) and see if you like it/want more.
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05-21-2013, 11:11 PM | #15 | |
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Quote:
OP I agree with hinshaw and others. Start with stage 2 then go from there. If it's going to be a track car and not a DD then look into fuel options (like e85) |
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05-21-2013, 11:49 PM | #16 |
Scooby Specialist
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That's funny because I have a friend who has a 2012 STi Hatch with a Cobb intake, turbo back exhaust comprised from a few different manufacturers and a tune from a nearby AMS shop and he dynoed 327 which I'd say is pretty close to 350.
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05-22-2013, 12:42 AM | #17 | |
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05-22-2013, 01:09 AM | #18 |
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wouldn't a 2010 sti have forged internals?
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05-22-2013, 01:34 AM | #19 |
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05-22-2013, 01:35 AM | #20 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 353343
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Vehicle:'13 WRX Sedan Stg 3 '13 Prius C 86mpg! |
Quote:
EDIT: ^^^^ Looks like apetron would probably have some info on E85. |
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05-22-2013, 08:27 AM | #21 | |
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Quote:
OP, a more realistic estimate is around 300. However, with that being said...dont focus on the number. If it feels fast enough to you, then thats all that matters |
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05-22-2013, 08:35 AM | #22 |
Scooby Guru
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Vehicle:2004 WRX Premium PSM |
Someone said it above, or was on the same track.. but...
Why don't you start with the typical turboback exhaust and tune. That'll bump you up 25% in power, putting you around 300WHP. Drive it, enjoy it. If you want more, you should then think about a turbo upgrade with supporting mods, or the built route. My point it, a turboback exhaust will be needed down the line anyways.. start there. It might even meet your needs. |
05-22-2013, 09:39 AM | #23 |
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Vehicle:2002 Subaru WRX PSM |
Listen to Hinshaw and cmiovino, go stage 2 and see where to go from there.
You say you want to track the car, do you mean 1/4 mile track, autoX, rally, dirt oval, ring of death, etc? You have a great all around turbo for a lot of different types of driving, but if you have a specific type of driving you are building for that might change some answers. If you are going to be competing you should also check your sanctioning body to find what changes your class and the types of cars you would go up against. You could end up in a class with crazy high HP cars and getting hammered every time you hit the track, not fun. Build with a purpose in mind, maybe stock w/ Stage 1 flash and suspension mods and you would be happy as a clam. |
05-22-2013, 12:15 PM | #24 | ||
Scooby Newbie
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Quote:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/Subaru-WRX...> p/615x02.htm Quote:
In regards to suspension, what is a good combination that will improve the stock setup but still mild enough to drive potentially daily? Maybe suspension is not needed? Please advise. Is stock suspension good enough for a track like Mazda Speedway?? The salesmen at Subaru claim it's a race car out of the gate. |
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05-22-2013, 12:42 PM | #25 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 37359
Join Date: May 2003
Vehicle:2003 WRX |
I would imagine brakes and tires should be up on the list for track days.
You might need to swap out brake pads at the track (or find a compromise street/track pad to get started) and make sure you have good fluid. Pads and rotors will wear quickly. Tires will also become a wear item pretty fast, so if you track frequently, a spare set of wheels will be useful so you can maintain some decent daily driving tires. Search the Motorsports forum for info about a good track day options. Remember that a lot of extra power means a lot of extra slowing down for each corner, so make sure the car can do that lap after lap. |
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