Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday March 29, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-25-2009, 10:38 PM   #26
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
Turbo_mike also has an EJ205 crank. Huge difference in revving abilities.
I know that!, What I am trying to say is this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Mike View Post
100% stock 2003 WRX 2.0L crank. Not drilled, balanced, or polished. Not touched in any way at all. Took it out of my stock 2.0L, threw some assy lube on it, dropped it into the new block. And single valve springs with stock valves.

Valvetrain wont be a concern on your 255 at all. But the crank and stroke is. If you havent balanced the crank, I'd stop at 7500... MAYBE 7600. The 2.0 crank is balanced MUCH better than the 2.5 crank in stock form to begin with, and with the shorter stroke, the balancing isnt AS critical as a 2.5....
Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
Thanks, how about with a balanced crank?
Next time I will get 2.3L
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Mike View Post
balanced crank you can go 7800 - 8000 without shaking it apart, but the other challenge is making power up there. The mechanical efficiency of the 79mm stroke starts to fall off hard after 7200 rpm. So you need a LOT of turbo and airflow to make it keep singing that high with a 2.5

I drew up the whole rotating assy and did a motion analysis (FEA) in solidworks a few years ago when I was deciding which parts to use in my build. The high RPM stress, efficiency, and piston speed of a 2.3 vs a 2.5 is not even comparable.. especially after 8k. A 2.0L is actually even better suited for 9k operation by analysis, but the issue there is that it wouldnt be very streetable or useful on a road course with a 40R on it because it would never spool. So I went for the tradeoff of the heavier larger pistons to take advantage of the larger displacement but kept the stroke short enough to be efficient at the higher RPM ranges.

Rallispec told him that his reving ability is limited to 7200rpm by using the stock heads. and that is not true
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by juanmedina; 12-25-2009 at 10:46 PM.
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 12-25-2009, 10:51 PM   #27
bhhamblin
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 99397
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Clinton, UT
Vehicle:
15 WRX, 83 DR30,
93 R32 GTS-T, 93 R32 GTR

Default

That is just what was recommended.
bhhamblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2009, 11:56 PM   #28
ScoobyNubieToo!
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 75234
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Williamstown, NJ
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon with
07 STI 6-Speed Goodness!

Default

That's a great looking block for the money! When mine finally bites the dust, I'll be giving that one a hard look!
ScoobyNubieToo! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2009, 04:07 AM   #29
Pecosdude
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 93033
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Indonesia
Vehicle:
- SG5 & GVF

Default

Can anyone chime in regarding their specs:

1. They use 4130 steel H-beam conrods, while most of the aftermarket conrods use 4340 steel. Any differences?

2. Regarding their 'uprated main and rod bearings', is it Cosworth or ACL?

Thanks.


Last edited by Pecosdude; 12-26-2009 at 09:51 AM.
Pecosdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2009, 09:45 AM   #30
bhhamblin
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 99397
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Clinton, UT
Vehicle:
15 WRX, 83 DR30,
93 R32 GTS-T, 93 R32 GTR

Default

I am pretty sure the Eagle rods are 4130.
bhhamblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2009, 05:08 PM   #31
timeXlost
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 113924
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Newton, MA
Vehicle:
2005 STI....SOLD!
93 RX7...Not Broken

Default

i think my engine will be meeting an early grave at some point in the not too distant future, this is looking like a great replacement. anyone have anymore info on it?
timeXlost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:28 PM   #32
Dave_RalliSpec
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 45702
Join Date: Oct 2003
Default

I am glad to hear all the positive comments. We've been in the business of Subaru performance modification for over 10 years now and bring a lot of experience and knowledge to the table.

I would like to comment on a few things to perhaps clarify or enlighten:

The rods used in this motor are 4340. The website info is a typo. The rods are produced for us by Manley. It is an economical performance rod good to about 600bhp. Similar to Eagle, K1, and many others. Chinese forging that is machined in-house at Manley. We've used about 50 sets of these rods and never seen an issue. The quality control is very good.

The crankshaft is not dynamically balanced. This is the only way to keep the cost what it is. The parts are closely weight matched. The horizontally opposed motors are such that this is 90% of what you need to achieve a good balance. We are marketing this shortblock as a street specification shortblock...basically a way for people to gain the reliability they need on their modified street cars without breaking the bank. It is felt that we cannot justify the cost of the crankshaft balancing for this type of application. However, we can balance the crank as an option but it raises the cost by $450. All of our race spec blocks are dynamically balanced as standard because we feel those motors will be spending a lot of time at high rpm and achieving a perfect balance is more critical. They are balanced to 1/4 gram which is about the limit of the resolution on most of the current balancing equipment that shops are using.

With regards to high compression....yes 9.2:1 is an option and we can build the street spec shortblock with this CR by special order. However, i would advise against running this CR on pump fuel. I would suggest running a thicker head gasket to bring the CR down to something in the 8.7 range or below. I've tuned cars running this 8.7:1 on 93 octane and compromises had to be made to keep it out of det but I still felt it was acceptable. I think beyond that then the compromises you have to make are going to cause reliability issues long term.

With regards to max revs.... there are many factors involved. These include, but are not limited to: valvetrain inertia (valve float), valvetrain harmonics (valvespring failure), bearing loads (crankshaft imbalance), connecting rod inertial loads (either rod failure or more commonly big end bearing failure), oil supply issues. Addionally there is the issue of volumetric efficiency dropping off. If your engine is not built to make decent power above 7000rpm there is no reason to spin the engine to 8000rpm or even 7500rpm (unless you are in a situation where you a few extra rpms helps avoid an unecessary gear shift). The stock ports, valve sizing, and cam profile will not flow sufficently well with a 2.5L displacement to make reving the engine beyond 7000rpm even worthwhile in most cases. And sure you may be able to spin the stock valvetrain to 8000rpm on occasion but how accurately are the valves following the cam profile and just how close are you to the resonant frequency of the valve spring. If you don't know these things you probably shouldn't be advocating it.

The issues with max revs as it relates to the street spec shortblock we sell have to do mainly with the oil supply to the rod bearings. Please keep in mind that the crankshaft is stock. Additionally, the lower cost rod does not have sufficient rod cap rigidity to maintain its shape under the loads experienced at very high rpm. If you are looking to run the engine at 8000rpm or more for any regular period of time I strongly suggest you look at one of our other shortblock options (or ask us to build something custom tailored to your requirements).

And lastly...yes, Jodie does a great job for the company. He builds many of the transmissions and some of the engines. I work very closely with everyone I hire to make sure they have the knowledge and skills necessary to produce the best quality finished product before they touch anything that comes out of my shop. Whether it is built by myself, Jodie, or anyone else that works at RalliSpec you can be sure it was built to the highest possible standards.
Dave_RalliSpec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:48 PM   #33
tolnep
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18602
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Planet tolnep
Vehicle:
2005 Moller Skycar
glow in dark purple

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_RalliSpec View Post
I am glad to hear all the positive comments. We've been in the business of Subaru performance modification for over 10 years now and bring a lot of experience and knowledge to the table.

I would like to comment on a few things to perhaps clarify or enlighten:

.
your street block is pretty close to what i am looking for sometime in the spring probably.

i have a 2003 WRX. what i want to end up with is basically a hybrid. i dont care about spinning above 7000 rpm. and i would like to keep the compression ratio around stock or at the very most, no more than 8.5:1. i plan to run it with the OEM ECU + APv2. i want to keep my OEM sensors etc etc.. lets say crank hp 400 to 450 (unless you would recommend something else). probably a stock location turbo, probably EWG. car is street driven. no tracking, no autocross. it might see an eventual 1/4 mile just to see what it can don et wize..

my biggest confusion more or less up to now is what are the options/prices etc for using my heads (or something offered by an engine builder). the block thing is easy more or less. but finding a properly matched head setup that works with my ECU and sensors is less so. i do not want to slap my WRX heads on a 2.5 and then rely on a tuner's ability to tune around the short comings of such a set up.

what i would really like would be a full 'street longblock' that i could just replace my engine with.. so what do you offer in this category?
tolnep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 12:18 PM   #34
Dave_RalliSpec
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 45702
Join Date: Oct 2003
Default

If you are wishing to build a hybrid (2.0L heads with 2.5L block) then you will want to run a head gasket thickness of 1.1mm to bring the compression ratio back down close to the standard ratio of 8.2:1. This assumes the heads have not been resurfaced.

In terms of building a long block....yes, this is no problem. However, people have many different opinions on exactly what a long block is. So you would need to clarify exactly what parts you wanted supplied. For example, Cosworth and some other companies define their long blocks as basically a shortblock with heads, cams, valve covers, and oil pump. Subaru defines a long block as essentially a complete engine. Most long blocks that we build here are somewhere in between and usually consist of shortblock with complete heads, water pump, timing gears & belt, covers, oil pickup and oil pan. No intake or exhaust manifolds and no coolant piping.

My best suggestion is to build the long block using JDM Ver.5/6 heads with aftermarket valvetrain parts. These are non-AVCS heads with big ports that flow well without any modification. We built this type of motor for X Games rally competition in Matthew Johnson's car. We ran a high compression ratio because we were running race fuel. Combined with a Garrett GT3071 the thing was blisteringly quick (quicker than most of the competition on the straights) until he put the car into the wall during practice and destroyed the motor.

For the type of application/power levels you are talking about this would be the ideal solution. Sometimes we have used low mileage heads of this type available. Send me an email ([email protected]) and we can discuss pricing.
Dave_RalliSpec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 12:26 PM   #35
bhhamblin
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 99397
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Clinton, UT
Vehicle:
15 WRX, 83 DR30,
93 R32 GTS-T, 93 R32 GTR

Default

Thanks for all the info Dave. Ill be ordering my short block today!
bhhamblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 01:02 PM   #36
nacho6706
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 165611
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default

Dave,
I have an '07 Sti and want to put in a built longblock, I have another longblock just sitting there as a replacement but it is from an '06 sti, is it just basically the same? (heads etc) if I were to send the 06 motor to have it bulit and then swap it and use the '07 's manifold injectors etc.
nacho6706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 05:03 PM   #37
bhhamblin
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 99397
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Clinton, UT
Vehicle:
15 WRX, 83 DR30,
93 R32 GTS-T, 93 R32 GTR

Default

The 06 heads are different form 07. Your 07 heads have the ports for the air pump, which you dont need if you want to get rid of the air pump.
bhhamblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 08:05 PM   #38
tolnep
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18602
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Planet tolnep
Vehicle:
2005 Moller Skycar
glow in dark purple

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_RalliSpec View Post
If you are wishing to build a hybrid (2.0L heads with 2.5L block) then you will want to run a head gasket thickness of 1.1mm to bring the compression ratio back down close to the standard ratio of 8.2:1. This assumes the heads have not been resurfaced.

In terms of building a long block....yes, this is no problem. However, people have many different opinions on exactly what a long block is. So you would need to clarify exactly what parts you wanted supplied. For example, Cosworth and some other companies define their long blocks as basically a shortblock with heads, cams, valve covers, and oil pump. Subaru defines a long block as essentially a complete engine. Most long blocks that we build here are somewhere in between and usually consist of shortblock with complete heads, water pump, timing gears & belt, covers, oil pickup and oil pan. No intake or exhaust manifolds and no coolant piping.

My best suggestion is to build the long block using JDM Ver.5/6 heads with aftermarket valvetrain parts. These are non-AVCS heads with big ports that flow well without any modification. We built this type of motor for X Games rally competition in Matthew Johnson's car. We ran a high compression ratio because we were running race fuel. Combined with a Garrett GT3071 the thing was blisteringly quick (quicker than most of the competition on the straights) until he put the car into the wall during practice and destroyed the motor.

For the type of application/power levels you are talking about this would be the ideal solution. Sometimes we have used low mileage heads of this type available. Send me an email ([email protected]) and we can discuss pricing.
sent you an email...
tolnep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 08:41 PM   #39
nacho6706
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 165611
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default

is that air pump really needed?
nacho6706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 08:50 PM   #40
STi Mikey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114631
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: TheShopCT / EFI LOGICS
Vehicle:
2009 GTR, 735whp
13' Benz, 15' WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nacho6706 View Post
is that air pump really needed?
I still have the air pump in my car but many delete it. It is not essential. It was placed in the 07+ STi's as an emissions aid. All it does to my knowledge is pump air into the heads at start up.
STi Mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 09:17 PM   #41
JF824
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 71460
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North Jersey
Vehicle:
2007 STi Limited

Default

Cosworth makes a nice delete plate for about $70.
JF824 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 09:47 PM   #42
bigboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 117384
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: The Burgh PA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
sonic

Default

some good info in this thread.... gotta look into rallispec's blocks!
bigboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 09:49 PM   #43
bhhamblin
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 99397
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Clinton, UT
Vehicle:
15 WRX, 83 DR30,
93 R32 GTS-T, 93 R32 GTR

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
I still have the air pump in my car but many delete it. It is not essential. It was placed in the 07+ STi's as an emissions aid. All it does to my knowledge is pump air into the heads at start up.
I took it out of my car (06 wrx) I have 06 sti heads in it so they aren't air pump compatible. The only thing you have to leave plugged in is the barometric sensor otherwise you'll have problems. Emissions wise i am fine as well no CELs after you disable them and it still said that the air pump is ready for the emissions readiness codes

Ive had no issues with mine being deleted so far. Plus, it cleans up the engine bay.

PS: Rallispec block is ordered
bhhamblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 07:04 AM   #44
ScoobyNubieToo!
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 75234
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Williamstown, NJ
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon with
07 STI 6-Speed Goodness!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_RalliSpec View Post

And lastly...yes, Jodie does a great job for the company.
Jodie is a frigging Subaru genius!
I've never seen anyone swap out injectors on a car as fast as I've seen him do it!!! He's incredible!
ScoobyNubieToo! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 08:56 AM   #45
modaddict
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 95840
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Pasco, WA
Vehicle:
sold to a good bud
awaiting next car

Default

I added this thread to my "links" thread stickied at the top of this forum.


I always appreciate it when someone gives good information on their product to communicate to the masses. Thanks Dave/Jodie.

Ryan
modaddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2010, 03:52 PM   #46
bhhamblin
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 99397
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Clinton, UT
Vehicle:
15 WRX, 83 DR30,
93 R32 GTS-T, 93 R32 GTR

Default

Well I got the block and had it installed by Solid Autoworks. So far ive only got roughly 100 miles on it. But I can say that the motor sounds like stock. No slapping pistons etc. Very quiet. So far I am very happy with it.

The Rallispec block includes:
Brand new 704 engine casing
Cosworth 8.2:1 CR pistons (they have a 9.2:1 option as well)
ACL/ Cosworth bearings
Manley H beam conrods
ARP rod bolts





Last edited by bhhamblin; 08-12-2010 at 02:30 AM.
bhhamblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2010, 10:25 AM   #47
modaddict
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 95840
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Pasco, WA
Vehicle:
sold to a good bud
awaiting next car

Default

Interesting that they didn't use the new Nitrided crank.
modaddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2010, 12:02 PM   #48
mapleleaf
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103399
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Vehicle:
2009 Stripped STI
Dirty White

Default

Pretty sure they do in their street SB for $3000...
mapleleaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2010, 03:30 PM   #49
BMWidmer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 205427
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Jr Tune, 330/300 uncorrected.
Vehicle:
2000 RSTI w/ hta68
Army Green

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_RalliSpec View Post
My best suggestion is to build the long block using JDM Ver.5/6 heads with aftermarket valvetrain parts. These are non-AVCS heads with big ports that flow well without any modification. We built this type of motor for X Games rally competition in Matthew Johnson's car. We ran a high compression ratio because we were running race fuel. Combined with a Garrett GT3071 the thing was blisteringly quick (quicker than most of the competition on the straights) until he put the car into the wall during practice and destroyed the motor.

For the type of application/power levels you are talking about this would be the ideal solution. Sometimes we have used low mileage heads of this type available. Send me an email ([email protected]) and we can discuss pricing.
Regarding a 2j255 hybrid...

I have V5 heads that i am holding on to for a build down the road and was curious how you tackled the wiring and what manifold did you use Dave?
BMWidmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2010, 03:57 PM   #50
06njsti
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 150986
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: South Jersey
Vehicle:
06 #001 LSB STi

Default

Jodie and Dave really know what they are doing, and there really is no one other then them who I would trust working on my baby. For the price you cant beat the Rallispec "street spec" block, let along the knowledge they have. I couldnt be any happier with the job they did with my car last spring, if it wasnt for my huge cams you wouldnt have a clue it was a built motor its so quite. Now since were all posting pics Ive got a few that I might as well share when Jodie built my longblock.
-Gary


Last edited by 06njsti; 02-01-2010 at 04:07 PM.
06njsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rallispec Street Spec EJ257 obrut Car Part Reviews 9 11-21-2012 12:16 PM
swaping a u.s spec to jdm unclewolf82 Subaru Conversions 7 06-06-2010 10:52 AM
JDM STI V7 shortblock VS JDM STI V7 Spec C shortblock Lam Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 5 02-16-2008 04:26 AM
attn:paulg...rallispec alignment specs? shuman New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 1 02-28-2001 09:49 AM
Question for the Subaru engine builders: Cobb Tuning, B Spec USA, Rallispec, et al. Digital_Boy Normally Aspirated Powertrain 0 01-31-2001 03:13 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.