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Old 09-02-2020, 06:30 PM   #1
SlowWRX_Owner11
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Default Building boost in higher gears

So Iíve been running the same pro(ish) tune, itís a pop bang tune. Recently I havenít been able to build boost past 10psi in 5th past 4200rpm. Is it a tuning issue? When I run the Cobb tune for my setup I build the target boost as soon as I get in it. So I donít think itís a boost controller issue.
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Old 09-02-2020, 07:04 PM   #2
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Check for a boost leak
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Old 09-02-2020, 07:05 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by dazmlp66 View Post
Check for a boost leak

Positive itís not a boost leak because I switched the tunes back and forth and with the cobb tune itís just fine so Iím almost sure itís a the tuning aspect? Right?
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Old 09-03-2020, 06:58 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by SlowWRX_Owner11 View Post
So Iíve been running the same pro(ish) tune, itís a pop bang tune. Recently I havenít been able to build boost past 10psi in 5th past 4200rpm. Is it a tuning issue? When I run the Cobb tune for my setup I build the target boost as soon as I get in it. So I donít think itís a boost controller issue.
I personally wouldn't be building boost in 5th anyway, certainly not up to target unless the car's engine was built in a way to handle it. But that's just MHO.

Curious. Can you hit target in lower gears while using the pro tune?
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Old 09-03-2020, 07:11 AM   #5
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I personally wouldn't be building boost in 5th anyway, certainly not up to target unless the car's engine was built in a way to handle it. But that's just MHO.
It was, it came from the factory to handle boost in any gear.

I go WOT in 6th uphill every day from 2500 to whatever, no matter how long it takes.
113,000 miles and it runs like new.

For gods sake why do people think you can't use the turbo in certain gears.
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Old 09-03-2020, 07:25 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by horsePOOGAS View Post
I personally wouldn't be building boost in 5th anyway, certainly not up to target unless the car's engine was built in a way to handle it. But that's just MHO.

Curious. Can you hit target in lower gears while using the pro tune?

Yes and no, I can build boost, before it usually spooled at 2700k and not it doesnít actually spool and it target until about 4K in the lower gears. But it eventually hits target.
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Old 09-03-2020, 08:59 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
It was, it came from the factory to handle boost in any gear.

I go WOT in 6th uphill every day from 2500 to whatever, no matter how long it takes.
113,000 miles and it runs like new.

For gods sake why do people think you can't use the turbo in certain gears.
THIS THIS AND THIS
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Old 09-03-2020, 12:45 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SlowWRX_Owner11 View Post
Positive itís not a boost leak because I switched the tunes back and forth and with the cobb tune itís just fine so Iím almost sure itís a the tuning aspect? Right?
Have you done any datalogging? Maybe you're getting knock with the non-Cobb tune.

Have you talked to your tuner?
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Old 09-03-2020, 05:15 PM   #9
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Have you done any datalogging? Maybe you're getting knock with the non-Cobb tune.

Have you talked to your tuner?

Iíve tried but theyíre either super busy or dodging my questions.
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Old 09-03-2020, 07:04 PM   #10
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I would do some datalogging at least. Easy to see if you're getting any knock that is retarding timing.
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Old 09-03-2020, 07:15 PM   #11
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I would do some datalogging at least. Easy to see if you're getting any knock that is retarding timing.

Now I know in my accessport I can monitor fine knock learn or feedback knock which one is more accurate? I use the 6 gauge cluster (boost, rpms, afr, coolant temperature, accel position, asking about if I should monitor fine knock or feedback knock)
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Old 09-03-2020, 08:04 PM   #12
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Log both along with DAM
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Old 09-04-2020, 07:30 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
It was, it came from the factory to handle boost in any gear.

I go WOT in 6th uphill every day from 2500 to whatever, no matter how long it takes.
113,000 miles and it runs like new.

For gods sake why do people think you can't use the turbo in certain gears.
To be fair, I never said you "can't" do anything. I just gave my 2 cents - so for god sake's I think that's okay to do lol I tend to be more cautious when doing high load pulls. again, just an opinion.

Hopefully the OP can take what I said with a grain of salt and research a bit and come to a conclusion him self for his own car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowWRX_Owner11 View Post
Now I know in my accessport I can monitor fine knock learn or feedback knock which one is more accurate? I use the 6 gauge cluster (boost, rpms, afr, coolant temperature, accel position, asking about if I should monitor fine knock or feedback knock)
OP: Like others have already mentioned - do some data logging and look at whats going on. Feedback knock is in real time as it happens. Fine knock Learned is the ECU retarding timing when you hit that area of the map under certain conditions when it has seen feedback knock. So it's learned to pull timing in that "spot" wherever that may be. I watch both as well as my DAM on my logger.

What fuel are you using and last time you filled up? I'm curious about the fill up because in my area it's common to get "bad" fuel or way lower octane then what I paid for. If I don't keep an eye on my feed back knock after fill up, I've had a nice surprise of the car acting up out of no where.

Last edited by horsePOOGAS; 09-04-2020 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 09-04-2020, 07:38 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by horsePOOGAS View Post
To be fair, I never said you "can't" do anything. I just gave my 2 cents - so for god sake's I think that's okay to do lol I tend to be more cautious when doing high load pulls. again, just an opinion.

Hopefully the OP can take what I said with a grain of salt and research a bit and come to a conclusion him self for his own car.




OP: Like others have already mentioned - do some data logging and look at whats going on. Feedback knock is in real time as it happens. Fine knock Learned is the ECU retarding timing when you hit that area of the map under certain conditions when it has seen feedback knock. So it's learned to pull timing in that "spot" wherever that may be. I watch both as well as my DAM on my logger.

What fuel are you using and last time you filled up? I'm curious about the fill up because in my area it's common to get "bad" fuel or way lower octane then what I paid for. If I don't keep an eye on my feed back knock after fill up, I've had a nice surprise of the car acting up out of know where.

Not sure if youíre familiar with kwik trip but I religiously fill up there with 93 oct. today on the way home was strange. I built boost with the pro tune just fine but my rpms spiked about 400 rpms and then back down when I put her to the floor, is that what a boost spike feels like or is that the trans slipping If I built boost up slow it didnít only when I mashed into it after 3600 rpm
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Old 09-04-2020, 07:44 AM   #15
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If rpm's spiked I would suspect clutch slip. Boost spike can ramp in like normal but you'll go past target boost. So if you're tuned to target 20 psi and you hit 22-25 that's an example of spike. More extreme would be blowing WAY past it lol

Get anywhere with a tuner yet?
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Old 09-04-2020, 08:00 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by horsePOOGAS View Post
If rpm's spiked I would suspect clutch slip. Boost spike can ramp in like normal but you'll go past target boost. So if you're tuned to target 20 psi and you hit 22-25 that's an example of spike. More extreme would be blowing WAY past it lol

Get anywhere with a tuner yet?

Tuner still hasnít gotten back and Iím getting frustrated. Would not recommend AI tuning for anything. As far as the spikes go it only did it in 5th gear tried 4th and 3rd and nothing out of the ordinary.
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Old 09-04-2020, 08:20 AM   #17
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Tuner still hasnít gotten back and Iím getting frustrated. Would not recommend AI tuning for anything. As far as the spikes go it only did it in 5th gear tried 4th and 3rd and nothing out of the ordinary.
Don't give up. Trying to internet trouble shoot can be just as frustrating by not getting anywhere with opinions lol I wonder with the holiday weekend around the corner they decided to take off work early.
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Old 09-04-2020, 08:23 AM   #18
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Default Building boost in higher gears

Quote:
Originally Posted by horsePOOGAS View Post
Don't give up. Trying to internet trouble shoot can be just as frustrating by not getting anywhere with opinions lol I wonder with the holiday weekend around the corner they decided to take off work early.

Very good possibility, later today Iíll get some data logging in besides fine knock learn feedback knock and DAM what else should I be looking for? Boost spikes? Or boost creep? Iím running catless so boost creep is inevitable. Should I be concerned with boost creep because I have a divorced downpipe or does that not matter?
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Old 09-04-2020, 08:50 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by SlowWRX_Owner11 View Post
Very good possibility, later today Iíll get some data logging in besides fine knock learn feedback knock and DAM what else should I be looking for? Boost spikes? Or boost creep? Iím running catless so boost creep is inevitable. Should I be concerned with boost creep because I have a divorced downpipe or does that not matter?
I would be looking at it given your issues.

I would also say it is important to set your gauges up to look at your knock values. It'll at least let you know if something tune wise is going on and will give you notice to back out of throttle when needed.
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Old 09-04-2020, 11:53 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by SlowWRX_Owner11 View Post
So I***8217;ve been running the same pro(ish) tune, it***8217;s a pop bang tune. Recently I haven***8217;t been able to build boost past 10psi in 5th past 4200rpm. Is it a tuning issue? When I run the Cobb tune for my setup I build the target boost as soon as I get in it. So I don***8217;t think it***8217;s a boost controller issue.
so the way a tune works is if it worked perfectly before and now it doesnt, its no the tune
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Old 09-04-2020, 12:31 PM   #21
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Stop what you're doing and wait to hear from your tuner before you blow up your engine.

Last edited by samb; 09-04-2020 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 09-06-2020, 01:45 AM   #22
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so the way a tune works is if it worked perfectly before and now it doesnt, its no the tune

Has to be. The car runs perfect when I use the cobb tune. And acts up when I use the pro-tune.
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Old 09-06-2020, 12:00 PM   #23
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Default Building boost in higher gears

How long has it been like that ? Did it do it straight after the tune ?

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Old 09-07-2020, 07:23 AM   #24
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Tuner still hasnít gotten back and Iím getting frustrated. Would not recommend AI tuning for anything. As far as the spikes go it only did it in 5th gear tried 4th and 3rd and nothing out of the ordinary.
Your descriptions are getting hard to follow.

So when you are using the term "spike" you are saying it is an RPM spike in post #14?
So for one, that isn't boost spike it is a clutch issue if that is really happening.

But then, above you say this 'spike' (trans slip) only happens in 5th but not 4th or 3rd?
So that does not make sense.
Is that what is really happening or am I misunderstanding this?

And boost spikes? If they are happening how much?
And you don't just mean when you stomp it and boost overshoots and then backs down right? Because that is not a spike, every turbo does that.
a spike or creep is when it just plain passes target by a meaningful amount

Contrary to what some guys say I think you NEED to drive it more, not less, and determine what actual issue you have
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Old 09-07-2020, 11:51 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
Your descriptions are getting hard to follow.

So when you are using the term "spike" you are saying it is an RPM spike in post #14?
So for one, that isn't boost spike it is a clutch issue if that is really happening.

But then, above you say this 'spike' (trans slip) only happens in 5th but not 4th or 3rd?
So that does not make sense.
Is that what is really happening or am I misunderstanding this?
High gear slip is a pretty classic symptom of a failing clutch.

Last edited by samb; 09-07-2020 at 12:07 PM.
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