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Old 05-31-2017, 05:32 PM   #51
fredrik94087
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Originally Posted by CharlieRotten View Post
We have tried increasing global AFR, and dropping timing down​ and nothing is working and that is why he and Cobb have come to this conclusion.
You mean he lowered the AFR. A higher AFR would cause more knock (in theory).

More gas and less timing is probably what he tried in order to eliminate knock.

Is that what you are trying to say?

Consider going back to the factory intake.
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:45 PM   #52
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you need to reach out to Ron Watson, he will get your issues squared away.
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:08 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by fredrik94087 View Post
You mean he lowered the AFR. A higher AFR would cause more knock (in theory).

More gas and less timing is probably what he tried in order to eliminate knock.

Is that what you are trying to say?

Consider going back to the factory intake.
Yeah my bad. Took it from 14.5 to 14 average
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:16 PM   #54
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you need to reach out to Ron Watson, he will get your issues squared away.
Who is that?
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:24 PM   #55
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Who is that?
https://www.phatbottituning.com/about.html
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:50 PM   #56
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Default FA20DIT DAM, FBK, and FKL issues

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Originally Posted by CharlieRotten View Post
Sorry for being absent for so long. I've been working with the tuner and Cobb directly. They both agree that the issue is heat related and the only solution is to run higher ethanol and get a FMIC. If my intake manifold temp is less than 70deg there is no dam drop. Anything over, and it goes haywire. That's where my tuner is leaving it. He said there is nothing else for him to do. We have tried increasing global AFR, and dropping timing down​ and nothing is working and that is why he and Cobb have come to this conclusion.


Like I said from the beginning this is an Octane issue, try a high quality Octane booster for a full tank of gas and see if your DAM remains at 1.

http://mycarneedsthis.com/the-best-o...s-and-reviews/
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Old 06-01-2017, 02:36 PM   #57
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Like I said from the beginning this is an Octane issue, try a high quality Octane booster for a full tank of gas and see if your DAM remains at 1.

http://mycarneedsthis.com/the-best-o...s-and-reviews/
He shouldn't have to rely on an octane booster to manage his knock or DAM.

The tuner should be able to tune for 93, 91, 89, 87 or whatever is in the tank.

I have gone to my tuner many times with 90 in the tank just so I can run 91 with a small margin.

There is either something wrong with one or more of the parts you added, something wrong with your car, or something wrong with your tuner.

Figure out which one it is. No, it is not the octane.
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:26 PM   #58
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Default FA20DIT DAM, FBK, and FKL issues

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Originally Posted by fredrik94087 View Post
He shouldn't have to rely on an octane booster to manage his knock or DAM.



The tuner should be able to tune for 93, 91, 89, 87 or whatever is in the tank.



I have gone to my tuner many times with 90 in the tank just so I can run 91 with a small margin.



There is either something wrong with one or more of the parts you added, something wrong with your car, or something wrong with your tuner.



Figure out which one it is. No, it is not the octane.


This could be a solution to his problem, an inexpensive solution. He would not have to spend hours of diag time on a Dyno that could potentially cause damage to his motor. If the octane booster corrects his issue it does point towards the fact his ignition timing is too aggressive. Or maybe it's just about adjusting ambient air temp ignition timing compensation tables because the issue is more prevalent at higher temps. The ecu on the FA20 is extremely picky and Octane has a huge effect on how it runs because it is able to run on 87 octane if 91 or 93 is unavailable. Anytime it thinks you have a lower Octane or poor quality gas the ecu begins its usual changes which because we have an AP we over analyze every calculation.

Last edited by TJ_Madden; 06-02-2017 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:34 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by fredrik94087 View Post
He shouldn't have to rely on an octane booster to manage his knock or DAM.

The tuner should be able to tune for 93, 91, 89, 87 or whatever is in the tank.

I have gone to my tuner many times with 90 in the tank just so I can run 91 with a small margin.

There is either something wrong with one or more of the parts you added, something wrong with your car, or something wrong with your tuner.

Figure out which one it is. No, it is not the octane.
Yep, he is a wealth of misinformation and doesnt understand tuning basics.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:51 PM   #60
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If it was octane, wouldn't backing off the timing take care of the issue just as much?
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:55 PM   #61
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If the fuel is igniting on its own because of high temps or pressure you will get knock. Higher octane fuels require greater temps and pressure for that to occur. By advancing or retarding timing you are trying to find the sweet spot for the flash of fuel to push down the piston at precisely the right moment just after top dead center creating the most power without creating knock.
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:50 AM   #62
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Yep, he is a wealth of misinformation and doesnt understand tuning basics.


Whom are you referring to?
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Old 06-02-2017, 03:49 PM   #63
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The genius who thinks he knows more than Harvey and Cobb and keeps blathering on about octane and octane boosters on a PROTUNE.
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Old 06-02-2017, 04:39 PM   #64
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FYI, I am having this EXACT same issue (although I'm at STG1). Moved here from Georgia a couple of months ago, and the first time I ever put 91 in my tank it started knocking like crazy. It's been that way ever since, and seems to be worse the warmer it is (luckily it has been pretty cool recently).

I took it to Harvey for a tune a few weeks back and he did the same thing to mine, reduced timing at lower loads/throttle response, and it seems to have helped a bit but I still get pretty major DAM swings. I even tried getting my intake valves cleaned to help w/ compression, and that didn't really affect anything. I'm sitting at 0.688DAM currently.

I think these high compression engines just really don't do well with 91 octane. Flex fuel or bust! I'm currently saving up for my kit/tune...
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Old 06-02-2017, 05:10 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
The genius who thinks he knows more than Harvey and Cobb and keeps blathering on about octane and octane boosters on a PROTUNE.


His tuner (Harvey) is the one who said there is nothing more he can do. He recommended a fmic and higher octane..... Why? Because his charged air is too hot and the low Octane fuel is combusting on its own creating knock. FMIC will help to reduce intake manifold temps and the higher octane will combust at a much higher temp or pressure that will allow for the more aggressive timing needed to make any real power in these FA20DIT motors. If you want to neuter the car run a lower octane and tune all the knock out just to make similar power when the car was stock.

Charlierotten, please just try raising your Octane to 94 or 95 with a quality octane booster and see if your knock gets better and DAM remains at 1.

I had the same issues with my protune from Bren Tuning and boosting my Octane from 93 to 95 fixed these issues in the hotter months up here in New England. In the fall and winter I do not need to increase my Octane.

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Old 06-02-2017, 05:13 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by CharlieRotten View Post
Sorry for being absent for so long. I've been working with the tuner and Cobb directly. They both agree that the issue is heat related and the only solution is to run higher ethanol and get a FMIC. If my intake manifold temp is less than 70deg there is no dam drop. Anything over, and it goes haywire. That's where my tuner is leaving it. He said there is nothing else for him to do. We have tried increasing global AFR, and dropping timing down​ and nothing is working and that is why he and Cobb have come to this conclusion.


Read again ass hat!
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Old 06-03-2017, 01:38 PM   #67
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If you need you use octane booster in order to keep your DAM at 1 and not see knock that points to a larger problem. Octane booster is a band-aid not a solution. It sounds like your heads already have serious carbon deposits and detonation issues. Do you take short trips often?
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Old 06-03-2017, 01:54 PM   #68
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If you need you use octane booster in order to keep your DAM at 1 and not see knock that points to a larger problem. Octane booster is a band-aid not a solution. It sounds like your heads already have serious carbon deposits and detonation issues. Do you take short trips often?


No short trips, also replaced my spark plugs and had some carbon build up nothing crazy. This was due to my bad habits over the winter of letting the car idle for 20-30 minutes warming up. Which after researching I no longer do. Now I just start and drive away and stay out of boost until oil temps reach the optimal 185 degrees. I could tune out the knock at higher temps but like I said I love my current power level and the octane booster allows me to stay there. I will soon be buying the GS Catback Exhaust, when we install that I will have BrenTuning do some further diag and adjust the air temp ignition timing compensation tables.

However, we were talking about the other guys issues. His tuner has recommended a fmic and higher octane. If he cannot afford to buy a new setup right now he could try the octane booster just as a proof of concept. Also, anything you can do to eliminate knock is a solution not a bandaid!
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Old 06-03-2017, 02:51 PM   #69
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No short trips, also replaced my spark plugs and had some carbon build up nothing crazy. This was due to my bad habits over the winter of letting the car idle for 20-30 minutes warming up. Which after researching I no longer do. Now I just start and drive away and stay out of boost until oil temps reach the optimal 185 degrees. I could tune out the knock at higher temps but like I said I love my current power level and the octane booster allows me to stay there. I will soon be buying the GS Catback Exhaust, when we install that I will have BrenTuning do some further diag and adjust the air temp ignition timing compensation tables.

However, we were talking about the other guys issues. His tuner has recommended a fmic and higher octane. If he cannot afford to buy a new setup right now he could try the octane booster just as a proof of concept. Also, anything you can do to eliminate knock is a solution not a bandaid!
Octane booster is sketchy though. Most octane boosters don't elevate octane more than a few fractions of a point anyway. I was using octane booster in my GTI when I had a 93 octane tune and it ****ed up my injectors. I do have a serious concern that I'm going to have catastrophic failure because of this knock issue. I can literally feel the knock when it happens sometimes. I'm curious if anyone has found a permanent solution other than fuel additive for this issue. It's hard for me to get down to Denver where there is 93 but I'm very much planning on making that trip sometime soon. I'm very much considering going back to stock at this point, although that downpipe install was a serious pain in the ass haha also, you have an upgraded intercooler and still had the lspi?

Last edited by CharlieRotten; 06-04-2017 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 06-07-2017, 06:01 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by CharlieRotten View Post
Octane booster is sketchy though. Most octane boosters don't elevate octane more than a few fractions of a point anyway. I was using octane booster in my GTI when I had a 93 octane tune and it ****ed up my injectors. I do have a serious concern that I'm going to have catastrophic failure because of this knock issue. I can literally feel the knock when it happens sometimes. I'm curious if anyone has found a permanent solution other than fuel additive for this issue. It's hard for me to get down to Denver where there is 93 but I'm very much planning on making that trip sometime soon. I'm very much considering going back to stock at this point, although that downpipe install was a serious pain in the ass haha also, you have an upgraded intercooler and still had the lspi?


Have your tuner pull a few degrees of timing on your current map. Have them reduce it in 2.5 degree increments until the knock normalizes. Remember this will cost hp though.
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Old 06-07-2017, 06:02 PM   #71
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He's already tried dropped timing significantly, with no change to FBK or FKL
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Old 06-07-2017, 06:36 PM   #72
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Stop listening to this kid. He cant read and doesnt understand anything of what hes talking about. That last post was proof positive.
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:19 PM   #73
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Stop listening to this kid. He cant read and doesnt understand anything of what hes talking about. That last post was proof positive.


Yeah, because Larry has been super helpful right?
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:24 PM   #74
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Like I have said before I had suffered the same problems you had described. Octane booster helped me normalize knock keeping my timing aggressive. I also have a Map with 2.5 degrees of timing pulled that corrects my knock issues too but costs me at least 15hp. Really should try a fill up on 93 octane just as a test.
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Old 06-08-2017, 09:25 AM   #75
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Hey guys, I just signed up because I have the same exact problem. I tryed 2 map ; cobb map for mishimoto intake ( witch i got) and cobb OTS map that a tunner edited for me so it can support my intake.
Both map knock on hight temp and on load but not in WOT.
In the morning my DAM keep going up. Then when I finish working, the temperature is higher and it start knocking a bit and the DAM fall down.

I have a rendez-vous on tuesday so they clean the valves.

My tunner think sparks plugs are the problem. If dosent get any better after cleaning the vavles I will change those sparks plugs.


Keep in mind that there was a recall on wrx for the ecu and the sparks plugs. THe problem is that subaru said that i dont have any recall on my car since they did update the ecu a few mounts ago.

Beside that i am sorry for any mistakes i made. English is not my primary language

Alexandre

Edit : Do everybody who has this problem has an mishimoto intake ? Because I think that this is our common point.

Last edited by Eatsleepturbo; 06-08-2017 at 11:20 AM.
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