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Old 07-18-2016, 09:36 PM   #1
banyan
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News Fiat Chrysler sales numbers probed by Feds


Fiat Chrysler is under investigation for allegedly inflating its sales figures.

The automaker confirmed Monday that both the Justice Department and the Securities and Exchange Commission are conducting probes.
Fiat Chrysler (FCAU) has been reporting some of the industry's best sales growth in the seven years since it emerged from bankruptcy. So far this year it has reported U.S. sales are up 6% compared to a year earlier.

But in January two car dealers filed a federal lawsuit against Fiat Chrysler, accusing it of paying dealers to falsely report sales of dozens of vehicles on the last day of the month, and then to "back-out," or undo the sales on the first day of the next month, according to the suit.

"FCA directly benefits from this practice as it results in the inflation of the number of year-over-year sales which, in turn, create the appearance that [Fiat Chrysler's] performance is better than, in reality, it actually is," according to the lawsuit.

At the time the automaker denied the allegations, and accused the dealers of filing suit because they were failing to meet sales obligations. The dealerships' attorney denied they were missing any sales target set by Fiat Chrysler.

In its statement Monday, Chrysler said its recorded annual and quarterly sales reports and revenues are based on shipments to dealers, not on the sales to the consumers who eventually buy the cars and trucks. It said it cooperating with the investigations.

The probe is the latest example of a major automaker being charged with deceiving the public and federal regulators. The biggest case involves Volkswagen, which has agreed to pay up to $15 billion to settle charges that its diesel cars contained software designed to pass emissions tests by cheating. In addition Japanese automaker Mitsubishi has admitted it has been cheating on fuel economy tests for the last 25 years.


http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/18/news...obe/index.html
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Old 07-18-2016, 09:42 PM   #2
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I'm not surprised. Marchionne has been trying to peddle the whole thing to whoever wants it. My guess he sees the light at the end of the tunnel and expects the house of cards to inevitably collapse.
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:07 PM   #3
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Unfortunately it's not uncommon for a company to say "units shipped" instead of "customers purchase / vehicles sold." It's a deceitful way to spin your numbers to investors so they look better although you're not technically "lying."
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:36 PM   #4
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Like recording artists going "platinum".
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:55 PM   #5
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It's all just a simple misunderstanding. Dealers are swimming in 3 model years of new product, what's the crime? Nothing to see here...
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:30 AM   #6
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What's the crime! You own stock in anything?
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:29 AM   #7
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Who narced them out?
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:36 AM   #8
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I really feel bad for Jeep and Dodge. They have to keep putting water in this leaky bucket that is fiat.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Unfortunately it's not uncommon for a company to say "units shipped" instead of "customers purchase / vehicles sold." It's a deceitful way to spin your numbers to investors so they look better although you're not technically "lying."
That's not true for automotive. Automotive sales are only vehicles reported as sales to retail customers, businesses, fleet units, and corporate marketing/test vehicles. Vehicles shipped to dealers do not count as sales. FCA can book revenue on units shipped to a dealer, but not sales. They were doing it illegally on purpose.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I really feel bad for Jeep and Dodge. They have to keep putting water in this leaky bucket that is fiat.
I don't see it that way; I'm not sure what Chrysler's product planning was looking like back in 2008 (or whenever Fiat stepped in) but some of the things that happened under FCA management are pretty good.
For instance, almost the entire line-up is running ZF 8-speed or ZF 9-speed trannies; awesome for both acceleration and highway fuel economy (some hate 'em, some love 'em, I'm in the love 'em camp).
Some models got significantly improved chassis in 2011 (Charger and Durango for instance, I'm sure I'm missing others).
Also staring in 2011, they deployed the fuel-saving 3.6L Pentastar in the entire line-up, although, I'm sure Chrysler had been working on it for a while.
They're also deploying the 3.0L turbo Diesel as fast as they can.
Last, but not least, Fiat 500 sales suck today but without a fully electric vehicle like Fiat 500e in the line-up of the group, it would have been costly to do business in states like California.
Now, Pacifica is getting a PHEV treatment and I'm sure other vehicles will follow suit.
I'm probably in the minority here, but I like post-Fiat Chrysler group better than pre-Fiat Chrysler.
I'm more likely to buy a Dodge/Jeep today than 5+ years ago.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:17 PM   #11
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I read that Ram/Jeepby themselves make up 60% of the total profit of all of FCA.

The trucks and jeeps are keeping all of FCA afloat. Alfa is not going to help and as you stated Fiat sales suck. Best thing that could ever happen is Jeep gets bought out or goes along solo.

Ram can vanish and I am not sure anybody would care. It is always a third tier truck anyway compared to GM/Ford.

But Jeep, not that I have owned one, they have proven they have the legs to go the distance.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:20 PM   #12
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Wait, so there are Hellcats available after all?
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I really feel bad for Jeep and Dodge. They have to keep putting water in this leaky bucket that is fiat.
Kind of sad too. The new Pacifica really looks like a nice package. I'm shocked that Chrysler of all companies beat Toyota to releasing a hybrid minivan. I mean, they have the Prius, they created the Prius 5 so clearly there was a demand for a Sienna based Prius 8...
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:21 PM   #14
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Fiat sales could soon to be bolstered by the Fiata.

--kC
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I read that Ram/Jeepby themselves make up 60% of the total profit of all of FCA.

The trucks and jeeps are keeping all of FCA afloat. Alfa is not going to help and as you stated Fiat sales suck. Best thing that could ever happen is Jeep gets bought out or goes along solo.

Ram can vanish and I am not sure anybody would care. It is always a third tier truck anyway compared to GM/Ford.

But Jeep, not that I have owned one, they have proven they have the legs to go the distance.
Yeah, absolutely, RAM trucks and Jeep SUVs bring in the majority of the money. Which is why I don't think FCA would let them go cheap.
I'd personally would like to see Dodge shape up so we can get an improved Charger platform.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I read that Ram/Jeepby themselves make up 60% of the total profit of all of FCA.

The trucks and jeeps are keeping all of FCA afloat. Alfa is not going to help and as you stated Fiat sales suck. Best thing that could ever happen is Jeep gets bought out or goes along solo.

Ram can vanish and I am not sure anybody would care. It is always a third tier truck anyway compared to GM/Ford.

But Jeep, not that I have owned one, they have proven they have the legs to go the distance.
If you look at Chevy and Ford, the bulk of their profits come from the truck/suv sales as well... not a surprise the same thing is going on with FCA.

Personally I don't want to touch anything FCA, Fiat hasn't helped or hindered the situation for me (least reliable American brand working with the least reliable non-american brand available in America).

as for the fiata; I don't know that it will be a volume seller for them, as cars like that typically aren't, but time will tell.
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Old 07-19-2016, 02:03 PM   #17
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A little off topic, but what is it about the Jeep look that people like so much?

I have a Wrangler and I love the damn thing, but I live in Utah and it sees either dirt or snow weekly.

On a recent trip to southern Utah I noticed that 1 in 5 cars around the national parks was a Jeep Patriot, so I looked into them and their sales numbers.
In '09 Jeep sold 31,432 Patriots in the US. In '15 they sold 118,464.

It's the same vehicle, they just squared the body more in 2011 and made it look more "Jeep".
By all logic sales should be going down, not up.
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Nick View Post
Wait, so there are Hellcats available after all?
There are actually thousands of unsold Hellcats around the country. Most dealers are just still hanging on to the hopes of charging a mark up on them.
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Old 07-20-2016, 09:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Yeah, absolutely, RAM trucks and Jeep SUVs bring in the majority of the money. Which is why I don't think FCA would let them go cheap.
I'd personally would like to see Dodge shape up so we can get an improved Charger platform.
A lot of their platforms are pretty ancient at this point. The Charger/300 is still running on an E Class platform from the mid 90s and the Grand Cherokee is still running on an early 2000s ML platform, the one that was used in that terrible Jurassic Park movie...

If anything, I guess it shows how good of a platform Mercedes made back in the day if it's still usable and can be adapted to meet the standards 20 years later.
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Old 07-20-2016, 09:47 AM   #20
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That was an epically terrible movie.

But after the first Jurassic Park, there was zero chance a sequel could ever touch it. From the effects, to the casting, to the musical score, it was a milestone of a blockbuster.
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Old 07-20-2016, 12:06 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by WideBody View Post
A lot of their platforms are pretty ancient at this point. The Charger/300 is still running on an E Class platform from the mid 90s and the Grand Cherokee is still running on an early 2000s ML platform, the one that was used in that terrible Jurassic Park movie...

If anything, I guess it shows how good of a platform Mercedes made back in the day if it's still usable and can be adapted to meet the standards 20 years later.
The origins of these platforms is ancient but they have been extensively reworked since then.
For instance, if you compare crash ratings of 2010 and older Charger vs 2011+ Charger, the improvements are significant (other things like front suspension geometry and windshield rake have been improved, 2011+ Charger are also easier to see out overall).
Besides, the old E Class never had a 120" wheelbase (barely 112" at the time) and was never this wide, so, IMO, at this point, Dodge/Chrysler have hacked up and stretched that old E Class platform so much they definitely made it their own :-).
I'm hoping FCA will put the platform on a diet without sacrificing wheelbase and rear legroom too much.
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:49 AM   #22
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http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/26/f...investigation/

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The new method also shows FCA's long run of sales increases wasn't as long as first thought. Rather than having continuous year-over-year sales improvements up to June 2016, the company saw declines in September 2013, August 2015 and May 2016.
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