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Old 02-28-2002, 11:10 AM   #26
WRChris
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dug-e-fresh:

something i was wondering about your times.............how fast are you shifting? are you out there slamming gears,or taking it relatively easy on the transmission?
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Old 02-28-2002, 11:18 AM   #27
dug-e-fresh
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I never slam gears.... I shift very quickly... but slamming is out of the question. Actually my cousin rags on me about it...

See in his Talon TSi AWD (1997 Stock w/Injen intake and 1st gen BOV) he can chirp 2nd!! No joke! His front tires will actually chirp when he bangs 2nd... now I have more power, smaller wheels, and I can't or should say, dont do that.

(BTW- he ran a 14.3 on a 1.832 60', faster launch than I do!)

Yeah, he wants me to let him take out the WRX to see if he can get her to chirp.... he thinks he'll have no trouble!! But I dont think so! Not in my car!!

So, I launch at 5k, never drop the clutch and dont "bang" gears...

Actually the few times I have missed gears I didn't even grind.... the rpms just shot up... and thats because I dont bang 'em... you bang 'em and miss.... the gears ground to hell and back! Thats not cool........

So the short answer to your question: I could shift harder, but I dont....I just concentrate on doing it quicker...there is a difference....

Doug
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Old 02-28-2002, 11:19 AM   #28
slowracing
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can you guys give me some shifting advice?? i ran my car for the first time last night and i shifted every gear at about 7200-7300 rpm. i had to use 4th gear also. has anyone made it down the track at 13.5 or faster without shifting to 4th?? is it possible?? you know when you only get like 1 or two runs you dont want to bounce off the rev limiter trying to make it down the track in 3rd. so if anyone has advice on shift points in 1st,2nd,3rd that would be great. im asking for personl experiences not " ive heard that shifting blah blah blah". thanks for your help guys.
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Old 02-28-2002, 11:27 AM   #29
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When I was running 13.7s and 13.8s, everytime I was tempted to let 3rd rev on out to see if I could hit the traps without shifting..... I hit the rev limiter everytime and my times ended up being slower.

With you running a 13.6.... nah you gotta shift into 4th.

The only other way around that would be to move the fuel cut up higher, or swap out 3rd gear for a smaller ratio...

According to my Gear Ratio Calculator I made in Excel.... if you could hold out 3rd to 7500rpms, you would be ok.....

Doug

BTW- I shift at or JUST past redline... perhaps 100rpms past. You gotta remember, some tachs are slow... the engine can be spinning faster than what the tach shows.... the tach just has not caught up yet... another reason not to use the speedo to do 0-60 runs with a stop watch........
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Old 02-28-2002, 11:39 AM   #30
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i still have yet to see one launching method preferred greatly over another. ive read lots of people slipping the hell out of the clutch........some people just rev it up and completely dump it (ouch).

i figure getting a lil wheelspin in 1st is putting less shock on the tranny than slipping the clutch lightly and getting NO wheelspin, or dumping it at too low an RPM and getting no spin. So per the advice of some of the faster members, i rev it to 5-5500 and let it up just to the point of feeling it grab a lil........then dump it the rest of the way. on my stock tires this will get a lil wheelspin in 1st and the car just hauls ass.
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Old 02-28-2002, 11:40 AM   #31
slowracing
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thanks for the info dug E!! i felt like i was about 100 ft short of the traps in 3rd at like 7200 rpm. so thats why i shifted. other said they could stay on 3rd but they were only run 14's.i was tempted to try it for a faster et and slow mph but it wasnt worth wasting my run. i was determined to run 13.2 but the 13.3 will do for the first time to the track in this car. ill let you guys know next wed how the header worked since not too many people are running headers yet. ive heard 15-20 hp but 25 ft lbs of torque. i can use the torque for sure.
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Old 02-28-2002, 11:54 AM   #32
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slowracing-

For some reason I thought I read you ran a 13.6.... my bad...the name must have threw me! 13.3, huh, looks like you and I would be a good run for one another!

So whats the low down on your mods? Due tell.....

Doug
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Old 02-28-2002, 11:59 AM   #33
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Peeps running 14s are only gonna trap between 93 and say 96mph. 3rd redlines right at 96mph... so yeah for those guys, 4th gear is not an issue...

Doug
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Old 02-28-2002, 12:08 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by fueledbymetal


I checked this link and I didn't see any transmission modifictaions (you did mention stock clutch). So am I correct in assuming you did your low 12 second run with the stock Transmission?
Stock clutch, stock transmission... its my mad granny shift skills

-Nathan
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Old 02-28-2002, 12:45 PM   #35
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_________________________________________________
what about us? Not to be a jerk here but we have posted our setups on this board SO many times... questions like this are better answered with a search...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry to invoke your wrath there Nathan



I did try searching quite a few times though and didn't come up with much, didn't have the right keywords I guess. Anyway, thanks for being a good sport and posting the link. Did you get your new engine in yet?
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Old 02-28-2002, 01:02 PM   #36
slowracing
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well im embarrased to talk about my mods but here they are.

spo motorsports TB exhaust
M2 big top mount
m2 uppipe
aem CAI
vishnu pulley
turbo xs blowoff

my problem is that my car only run .90 bar of boost ( 13psi). i think with more boost i can go 12's. also my 18 inch wheels arent helping my et either. But im on a mission for 11's with my 18inch superleggeras. i dont care what i cold run with lighter smaller wheels. anyway, im tuning the car this weekend and adding the cusco header and boost control. if i dont get mid - high 12's i will be quite disappointed.
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Old 02-28-2002, 01:06 PM   #37
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I've heard from the Vishnu guys that the vent to atmosphere bov's take a couple of tenths off your 1/4 mile. It might be best just to run the stock bov.
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Old 02-28-2002, 01:18 PM   #38
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I am not sure about a couple of tenths from the BOV... but I could see up to 1 tenth for sure....

Slowracing- nothing to be embarrassed about... all very top notch mods... and so what if you are not running the 1/4 in what you feel is a good time... how much of your driving do you do at the track? Most racing is gonna be real world stuff and will probably involve a roll on...illegal or not...

Now with the actuator holding 13 psi... how did you do that? Did you just upgrade the whole actuator? or just the spring? Or is this in conjunction with an upgraded turbo that came with a 13lb actuator? Sorry for all the questions... you got me thinking

Doug
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Old 02-28-2002, 01:51 PM   #39
slowracing
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dug, i dont do my own work so i dont know a whole lot a bout some of thricks that are done with the parts on my car. i can tell you for sure its the whole actuator, spring rod etc.. i beleive its this one (see link) but i dont know for sure since i got it installed at the shop and didnt order it myself. i had it set at like 16-17 psi and it would hold every pound likea champ but it was too much for daily driving since you cant just turn a knob and lower it. so i lowered it before i made it to the track this week. wish i had it cranked up a bit last night. i may have seen 13.0-13.1.

http://www.spomotorsports.com/Catego...tomerID=177422
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Old 02-28-2002, 01:56 PM   #40
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Hey Doug-e. I knew you'd be out of the woodwork soon on this thread. I believe he will be in the 12's with stage one and catback, especially with good quality gas.

What do you guys think about this...
From shiv's dyno plots, you actually have more power AND torque available at 4000 RPM than you do at 7000, because the torque falls off after 6000. So, in 2nd and 3rd gear, If you shift before redline, you will then have more power available than if you waited until redline to shift. Does this make sense? Do you think it would make a difference? I know that some people are letting the RPM's run past redline in every gear, which wouldn't really make you faster, according to the numbers. Get at me.
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Old 02-28-2002, 02:17 PM   #41
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Yes but the track is not a dyno. So if you are able to get to red line and then ****, in the next gear you will be at a higher rpm and closer to your peak boost point. If you were to shift lower then red line on you next gear you will might end in your lag point. Hard to do but if it happans your run is over. That's why so many guys with the big turbos are hurting.

Eric
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Old 02-28-2002, 02:35 PM   #42
dug-e-fresh
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Code:
R.P.M.s 1stGear 2ndGear 3rdGear 4thGear 5thGear
1000	5.50	9.73	13.85	19.57	25.65
1250	6.88	12.17	17.32	24.46	32.06
1500	8.25	14.60	20.78	29.35	38.47
1750	9.63	17.03	24.24	34.24	44.88
2000	11.00	19.47	27.71	39.13	51.30
2250	12.38	21.90	31.17	44.02	57.71
2500	13.75	24.33	34.63	48.92	64.12
2750	15.13	26.77	38.10	53.81	70.53
3000	16.50	29.20	41.56	58.70	76.94
3250	17.88	31.63	45.02	63.59	83.36
3500	19.25	34.07	48.49	68.48	89.77
3750	20.63	36.50	51.95	73.37	96.18
4000	22.01	38.93	55.41	78.27	102.59
4250	23.38	41.37	58.88	83.16	109.00
4500	24.76	43.80	62.34	88.05	115.42
4750	26.13	46.23	65.80	92.94	121.83
5000	27.51	48.67	69.27	97.83	128.24
5250	28.88	51.10	72.73	102.72	134.65
5500	30.26	53.53	76.19	107.61	141.06
5750	31.63	55.96	79.66	112.51	147.47
6000	33.01	58.40	83.12	117.40	153.89
6250	34.38	60.83	86.58	122.29	160.30
6500	35.76	63.26	90.05	127.18	166.71
6750	37.13	65.70	93.51	132.07	173.12
7000	38.51	68.13	96.97	136.96	179.53
7250	39.88	70.56	100.44	141.86	185.95
7500	41.26	73.00	103.90	146.75	192.36
This data is based off the stock gear ratios and the stock 205/55-16 tires. I lengthened it to show how revving it higher could help some ets for those wanting to stay in 3rd and are happy with high 13s, low 14s.

While in the DSM world they swear by shifting early on a stock car (ie- 6500rpms rather than 7000rpms) would net you a faster run 1/4.... I have never witnessed this myself. I believe its possible though, but when you start to modify you car... really take care of the boost bleed off (ie- MBC,EBC) then redlining is gonna be the best way to go for maximum power and minimum times...

Remember the dyno curves you see are calculated from gear ratios and the end result we see is not actual TQ/HP at the wheels, all dynos do that..... 1st gear will always be stronger than all the subsequent gears, as goes with 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

Being that when you shift at redline (with stage 1) you fall very nicely into the powerband of the car... I really dont see anyway better than that.

With some cars this maynot be true, but the WRX seems to still make pretty good power at the top end (relatively speaking) and the longer you can stay in a powerful gear the better (ie- S2000, Type R, thats why they rev so high...so you dont have to shift!!)

Doug

Last edited by dug-e-fresh; 02-28-2002 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 02-28-2002, 06:30 PM   #43
rex n effect
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You said that when you shift into 3rd and 4th from redline, rpms come down to about 4900. Power AND torque AND boost falls off after 6500 though, so if you shift a little bit early, RPMs drop to maybe 4800, where there is more power AND torque AND boost available. I'm only suggesting this when shifting into 3rd and 4th, of course. Your numbers are helpful - If you shift at 65 mph (6750 rpm), RPM's will drop to 4750, right into the peak of the power band. Same thing from 3rd to 4th. The dyno plot I'm looking at is a 4th gear run. There is more power and torque available at 4800 RPM and up than there is at 6800 RPM, that's my only point. A little long winded, that's all
It might be worth one run down the track.
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Old 03-01-2002, 04:07 AM   #44
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Also (arrgh, calculus flashbacks) if you plot out your car's speed versus time on a graph, the area underneath the line is what determines how far you've gone...

Let's say that you and an identical driver (except for your decided shift points) are at the track, and you have the exact same reaction time. Let's say you shift at 6.1k from 2nd-3rd, and 3rd-4th, while he shifts at 7k...

As you're shifting from 2nd to 3rd, he's accelerating for most, if not all, of the time you're shifting (depending on how fast you shift and how fast your modded car can get to redline). As you're shifting, he's moving past you... now, once you're done shifting, you can step on it, and he's shifting. Will you catch up by the time he's done shifting? At the end of the course? It depends on how large the difference in power is between 4k-5k and 6.1k-7k, how long it takes you to shift, and how fast you can accelerate during the time the other car is shifting.

You might end up with the same trap speed as he does at the end of the race, but get there a couple of feet behind him. You might end up finishing at the same time as he does, with a faster trap speed. It depends on a lot of factors, but it all boils down to how much area is under the line in the speed vs time chart once you reach your ET.

Hopefully that made sense to somebody.

--jeff
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Old 03-01-2002, 12:20 PM   #45
dug-e-fresh
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Avedis- good point...

However, again you must realize that the dyno graphs you see would all be the same regardless of the gear you test the car in. The numbers on the dyno graph are representative of the power your engine is making through the entire drivetrain DIVIDED by the overall gear ratio the car was run through.

Those numbers are always gonna stay the same (in a perfect world), but if you return the dyno numbers to there real world numbers (ie- ACTUAL torque and HP at the wheels) you will most likely find that you will have more power at redline in 1st than you would at ANY rpm in second. I have not done he actual math... but I can almost gaurantee you of that fact.

I will see what I can do with the numbers and let you know what I find...

Doug
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