Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday March 18, 2019
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning > Open Source Reflashes

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-04-2008, 07:26 PM   #1
Team Scream
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 121532
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Vehicle:
06 FXSTi, 06 FXTAT
06 STi Wagon, 99 GF Wagon

Default Installing an APS 65mm CAI - scale help

I would like to install my 65mm APS CAI.
I understand that I will have to rescale the MAF accordingly.
I am way green when it comes to this but I think I am ready to try.
I have an Innovate LC-1 and a Defi EGT so I can keep an eye on things and log with the LC-1 in RomRaider.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? Where should I begin?

P.S. I am currently at stage 2 with:

APS 3" TBE (catless)
K&N Panel filter
LC-1
EGT

XPT Stage 2 (paid map)

P.S. I also have a GMBCS which I have not installed yet.
I would like to get the CAI installed first and my MAF scaled correctly before i try to hold boost longer.

Thanks!
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Team Scream is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 07-05-2008, 09:25 PM   #2
lukeskywrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 59837
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Nor Cal
Vehicle:
2004 Spec-C Type RA
What MAF? -Speed Density!

Default

That is the stock diameter, the 70mm one needs to be rescaled.

you can use the new MAF scaling feature to tweak your map if you feel it needs it, but it should be fine with stock numbers.
lukeskywrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2008, 10:22 PM   #3
nhat
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 140163
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: 3MI Racing
Vehicle:
03 STi
hellaflunctional

Default

interesting. exact same setup i have: aps cai, aps tbe. and exact same situation i'm currently in.

the 65mm cai definitely benefits from being scaled. use the maf tool in romraider to scale CL until corrections are under 5%. once there, you can scale OL using logs taken with AFRs from the lc-1. don't touch OL loop until your CL is done. while scaling CL, stay out of boost as best you can.
nhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 01:00 AM   #4
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Licking County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

nhat, if that one you've got is alledgedly stock diameter, then they're lying somehow. That's a HUGE error you've got going on there.
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 09:01 AM   #5
crazymikie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Honda El Camino
Green

Default

It's stock diameter, but it doesn't have the same flow characteristics as stock. It needs to be rescaled.
crazymikie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 01:03 PM   #6
acssa
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 184023
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: south Africa
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Scream View Post
I would like to install my 65mm APS CAI.
I understand that I will have to rescale the MAF accordingly.
I am way green when it comes to this but I think I am ready to try.
I have an Innovate LC-1 and a Defi EGT so I can keep an eye on things and log with the LC-1 in RomRaider.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? Where should I begin?

P.S. I am currently at stage 2 with:

APS 3" TBE (catless)
K&N Panel filter
LC-1
EGT

XPT Stage 2 (paid map)

P.S. I also have a GMBCS which I have not installed yet.
I would like to get the CAI installed first and my MAF scaled correctly before i try to hold boost longer.

Thanks!
May APS 65 CIA did not need any extra work.
acssa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 01:09 PM   #7
fujiillin
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 171344
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UDel
Vehicle:
2006 STi Wagon
Black HTA Green

Default

^ I bet you have high AF Corrections and an inaccurate OL Fuel table, probably runs fine, could run better.

Just tune from the stock map, it WILL require some tweaks to get an accurate OL fuel map and low AF corrections.

IIRC, stock is 65.5 or so, the difference is negligible, and will at the worst cause a rich base map.
fujiillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 04:04 PM   #8
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fujiillin View Post
the difference is negligible, and will at the worst cause a rich base map.
You have that backwards....putting on a larger intake or free-er flowing intake will cause the car to run LEAN, thus why its a bad idea and not recommended without a retune. Putting on any intake that has a higher MAF but is still using the stock MAF scale will cause the car to run lean. This can be seen on this plot of p&l testing their intake on an 08 wrx. If you increase the mass air flow of the intake you need to increase the Mass Air Flow values in the ecu or you WILL run LEAN, more air needs more fuel and increasing the MAF values tells the ecu that you are adding more air and thus need more fuel to reach the Target AFR's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acssa View Post
May APS 65 CIA did not need any extra work.
You'd be surprised....see plots below. The ECU has the ability to make +-25% corrections through the AF learnings, so it CAN run fine without adjusting the MAF just as P&L's car did....but the question is WILL it run fine. I'd rather know my AFR Targets were what i am actually hitting and not be guessing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P&L Motorsports Inc. View Post
Moving on.... Now it gets fun. We tried a few different designs, but basically worked around keeping the characteristics as similar as possible. Since we try hard to actually test and engineer products, take this with a grain of salt. But, it goes to show something pretty profound.



As you can see, the biggest thing to note is how uncorking the motor really helps it to breath, so much so, that the AFR finally unstuck itself off the bottom of the dyno plot. The important thing to note is that we need to do extensive testing to make sure fuel trims aren't being overly affected. Ironically, the AFR is very much where it probobly would be during a tune. So, if fuel trim was consistent, this car (short of the issues I have with how Subaru gets around their emission requirements) would actually be just fine to drive.

More on that as we get some EMS to try out on the car.

So, chew on this one over Thanksgiving..



That is your stock setup, vs the final P&L prototype highFLO intake, TurboXS downpipe with our prototype cat back adapter, and our resonated race series exhaust.

An incredible 53lb/ft and 42WHP of uncorrected, honest to goodness increase!

Cheers!

-Jorge

Last edited by Phatron; 07-07-2008 at 04:16 PM.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 04:09 PM   #9
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

I sent Team Scream my 65mm MAF and here are the results. Pretty damn close for an internet MAF tune. I didnt touch his AFR targets on this first run, left them where they were at. After i got this, I increased the MAF more below 5200rpm and changed his AFR targets to 11.07:1. He should be testing it today. The MAF scale on my car is off because my turbo inlet hose is detatched from the turbo so i am sucking in un-metered air, it was still pretty close though.



Here's the difference in MAF table

Last edited by Phatron; 07-07-2008 at 04:17 PM.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Process West TMIC Installed & APS 65mm CAI sszyma Car Part Reviews 41 12-23-2010 07:40 PM
Any need to scale for an APS 65mm CAI? shemoves AccessPort 4 04-27-2009 09:23 PM
Cobb OTS Stage 2 map with an APS 65mm CAI? GuammyBear AccessPort 0 05-02-2008 05:56 PM
WTT: APS 65mm CAI for APS 70mm CAI HIREN Engine/Power/Exhaust 4 02-29-2008 05:20 PM
WTT: APS 65mm CAI for APS 70mm CAI... gotta be crinkle red and great condition TROLL Engine/Power/Exhaust 4 11-30-2007 01:58 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.