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Old 01-17-2019, 11:08 PM   #201
Stija
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For the record, e30 is about 95(r+m)/2, 94.4 precisely. Like I had said, ethanol will provide all the knock and detonation prevention, that's the point of it. I'm trying to help you goodys..

But again, you can put whatever you want in your car cuz someone said it would help, and it will if you believe it hard enough. Superstitious people are everywhere.

ADDED: on top of it being 95aki it is in practice acting as if its aki rating was much higher than that due to its cooling effect and slow burning. That's the point of running an e30 tune/fuel.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:41 PM   #202
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If you start with 87 Octane E10 and you add enough E85 to reach E30 you will have an effective Octane rating of 90-91.

If you start with 93 Octane E10 and you add enough E85 to reach E30 you will have an effective Octane rating 95-96.

This isn't a question of fear mongering or feeling good. It's a question of running the highest possible octane you can when putting 300-350whp.

Not all E30 is created equal.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:01 AM   #203
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This guys probably talking crap about me..

Repeat after me everybody, e30 aki rating is 95, but because it cools as it draws into cylinders and cuz it burns slow it is much higher in practice.

NOT open for debate. Fact.

But you are welcome to pour 91 or 93 or 94 octane to increase knock resistance...

AKI Increase // Ethanol by Volume %
1.0 - 1.5 // 5.7%
1.5 - 2.5 // 7.5%
2 - 3.5 // 10%
3 - 4.5 // 15%

source: https://ethanol.org/KMoore%20Octane%20ACE%202016.pdf
ADDENDUM FOR FUN: I wish I had a source from someone phone's Instagram instead.

Last edited by Stija; 01-18-2019 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:14 AM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic Wrx View Post
Would it be possible to run a ethanol reader in the car to help make sure you have good content
Why stop there? Once you have that you are more than half way to your own flex fuel kit, just need an AP and a pro tune afterwards to take full advantage of it
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:07 AM   #205
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I'm enjoying this discussion. Lots to learn, after years of avoiding ethanol completely.

Moore's PDF indicates that the ethanol fuel's AKI depends on the base fuel it is blended with. The chart doesn't list the AKI increase of E30, but we could extrapolate (assuming it continues to be linear) and guess it adds 6-9 AKI.

Therefore it appears that a 70% base fuel (85AKI) and 30% ethanol has a final AKI of 91-94. A 70% base fuel (93AKI) and 30% ethanol has a final AKI of 97-102AKI.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:55 AM   #206
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If I had to take a guess I’d guess that any premixed blend is mixed with 85/87aki.

BUT you’re missing the point. Even though e30 aki may be 95, it acts as though it was much higher, like 110 (made up number, maybe higher) due to its cooling effects.

Think about The whp increase that e30 allows compared to race fuel for example, even though race fuel may have higher aki rating, e30 will give you better gains. Why do you think that is? It’s not just about the aki number.

Last edited by Stija; 01-18-2019 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:34 PM   #207
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Damn, This threads almost had a birth day

So if any of you had to do it over again from scratch what would you choose:

Cobb AP $675
Stage 2 MAP Tune: (Free With AP)
Map intake: $316
Down Pipe: $549
Total: $1540
Dyno # 310HP 330TQ

Or:
Cobb AP: $675
Map Intake: $316
Map stage 1 E30 ($150 With AP)
Total: $1141
Dyno # 320HP 334 TQ

And with the E30 Tune work with the MAP brand intake? Is there a Stage 1+ E30 Tune?

I really want to hear that turbo spooling and that awesome woosh sound that the intake help give.

The Dyno Numbers are very similar, I have E85 Access near my workplace, I am the only driver of the car,

There is a give and take in everything in life it seems,

The E30 Tune is less initial work and $400 cheaper Just Get the AP and Flash the Tune but it is more work in the long run to have to measure your E levels every time you pump, or guess and put in 4 or 5 gallons of E and hope you run right

The stage 2 91 Tune is more initial money and labor to install the intake and the down pipe Get the AP and flash the tune, and then in the long run less work to be able to just pump 91 and be on your way .....

I just picked up a 2017 WRX 6MT and am waiting for my tax return to pull the trigger on one of these options, I started my own thread and received some pretty great feedback so now its time to see what you guys in this thread have to say.

And please let me know if my numbers are off:

@ian
If I purchase the AP Stage 2 tune MAP intake and MAP down pipe can I get a fat discount I want to make decent power but stay in daily driver status....
I also plan on getting front and rear strut bars and Sway bars to tighten this thing up a little, my tires are stock Dunlops and this things got a little under steer that I don't care for

Last edited by Scoobie_Newbie_916; 02-10-2019 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:47 PM   #208
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https://shop.redline360.com/products...YaApckEALw_wcB

Anyone tried this Rev9 brand?

I know you get what you pay for but damn this things cheap
only $189 WTF is it made of aluminum foil
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:33 AM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maperformance View Post
Stage 1+ E30 tunes now out for the MAP intake! If anyone is looking for an intake to work with this tune, we now have a tune for our MAP intake. This tune is free with the purchase of the intake from us as well
So If i buy ur intake I get the stage 1+ e30 tune for free and if I buy the AP through you I can get the stage 1 or 2 91 tune for free also I want to have the option to switch back to 91 incase I go on a roadtrip or something and e85 isnt available

Will the stage 1+ e30 tune work with a down pipe ......can I run your intake and downpipe for the stage 2 91 and then also reflash to the stage 1+ e30 tune while keeping the downpipe on
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:15 AM   #210
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If you want some noise, do the e30 stage1+

The e30 tune alone is just an awesome bump in power. I wouldn’t bother with much else unless you really plan on getting into the engine itself.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:35 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodysgota72 View Post
If you want some noise, do the e30 stage1+

The e30 tune alone is just an awesome bump in power. I wouldn’t bother with much else unless you really plan on getting into the engine itself.
This sums up my feelings!
Perfect noise, perfect amount of power. I wouldnt want to go any higher on power without bottom end work anyway. Its right where I wanted to be and I can undo it with mainly just a flash.
I cant wait for spring to get back to E30 goodness
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Old 02-22-2019, 07:45 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maperformance View Post
Hey everyone! Can you believe just a few years ago, the thought of running ethanol on the new FA20DIT was somewhat nerve racking? Reading through all the "blown engine" threads from running E85 etc. Now that we have figured these cars out, people are finally starting to find the right "sweat spot" to make these FA20's happy with corn.

We are pleased to release E30 OTS Maps for the 2015+ Subaru WRX Platform! The E30 fuel blend is an ideal compromise for many popular non-FlexFuel equipped vehicles as will be described below, and blending is very simple and easy to remember with a 2:1 ratio (2 parts pump gas to 1 part E85).

Ethanol and E85 FlexFuel have been common in the racing and high performance circles for a long time as they can be used as an inexpensive race fuel, and it’s becoming more popular to use various blends of ethanol fuels in the common non-FlexFuel equipped vehicles solely for performance purposes. There are two key performance-adding attributes to the standard E85 you can find at local gas stations: it has a very high octane rating of 105 (R+M/2) and, more importantly in my opinion, is the molecular composition and its’ effect on cylinder charge and combustion. Without going into too much chemistry and combustion theory, here are the effects of the two key ethanol fuel attribute and why it is used:

1) E85 has a high octane rating of 105 – This is rather straight forward; the higher octane rating yields greater resistance and less volatility to detonation. In many of the popular turbocharged engines on the road today, significant gains can be had from tuning alone with the stock engine hardware. However, many of them inevitably become detonation limited from a variety of constraints, such as:
- Inferior or excessively small turbine or turbine housing, exhaust manifolds, etc. This can result in extremely high exhaust gas temperatures and/or cylinder head temps, therefore increasing the chances for hot spots inside the combustion chamber, piston, etc
- Inefficient cylinder head/combustion chamber/piston design. This is similar to the turbine limitation above, except with the emphasis on the fluid dynamics of the air charge entering and exhaust gas exiting the combustion chamber. The efficiency and stability of the combustion characteristics – including raw power – are dramatically impacted by the cylinder head ports, cam profiles, valve shape and combustion chamber design. When compromised design or limited technology characterize the contributors to combustion efficiency and stability, the characteristics of the fuel become more crucial.
Note - It’s not my intention to describe these modern engines as primitive or lacking technology; quite the opposite is true. The key to this particular discussion is that the intended operation range of these Stg 1 and Stg 2 engines has been elevated, therefore the performance we are attempting to optimize will be constrained by a design and limitations of a different intent. As is the case with many of the modern turbo engines either stock + tune or with bolt-on upgrades, a primary limiting factor to additional power output is detonation volatility and stability. This means if we can use more stable, less volatile fuels and therefore take advantage of more consistent combustion, we can comfortably move the peak cylinder pressures closer to the optimum mechanical angle - generally 15* ATDC – we’ll see a significant increase in torque and power output.

2) The molecular attributes of ethanol have a very dramatic effect on performance. There are common misapprehensions regarding energy release and temperature at which E85 burns, but hopefully separating two functions of the fuel can help illustrate the nuanced discussions regarding E85 and temperatures.

a. In Direct Injection engines especially, fuel does much more than provide a chemical for oxygen to react with upon ignition. The high-pressure injection of the liquid fuel into the combustion chamber provides a function of absorbing a significant amount of heat from previous combustions, which consequently raises the knock/detonation threshold considerably. As such, the more heat we can remove, the higher the knock/detonation threshold and subsequently more power. This measure of the liquid’s ability to absorb heat is known as the Latent Heat of Vaporization. Pump gasoline has a low rating of ~150btu/g, whereas E85 has nearly 2.5x the thermal absorption at ~360btu/g. However, most impressing of all is an E30 blend which still has over 2x the rating with ~330btu/g! It’s in this context that it’s possible to describe an engine as “running cooler” with E85, as overall peak combustion temperatures and EGTs can be cooler.

b. The molecular differences between ethanol and gasoline also has an effect on power and performance, which can be illustrated by comparing the heat and byproducts released upon combustion. This is where additional confusion comes into play with regards to which fuel burns cooler, which fuel makes more power, etc. One common claim is that combusting one unit of ethanol produces 4x less heat than combusting one unit of gasoline - which is true – however in the case of an engine where we’re looking to make the biggest bang, we are usually oxidizer limited, meaning the raw combustion energy is limited by the amount of oxygen that can be crammed into the combustion chamber. As such, we must look at the total combustion byproducts and their respective pressures to get an understanding of the impacts to the temperatures and pressures in the chamber using the P=nRT/V equation. In general, the given airmass will combust 4x as much E85 as it would gasoline, therefore we can consider the overall combustion thermal energy release to be equal. Then the byproducts of combustion come into play, where E85 produces ~20% more than gasoline, raising cylinder pressure accordingly.
What this all means for us concerned with engine performance is that we have numerous strategies that can be used to extract significantly more power with E85 or an E30 blend of fuel, all while keeping the knock/detonation, peak pressures and CHT & EGTs in their healthy ranges- at or below levels prior.
The concerns of ethanol being used in non-FlexFuel vehicles is

Below are E30 dyno results with the MAPerformance 2016 WRX in Stage 1 and Stage 2 configurations







OK, now that I got that out of my system, here is how we are going to be offering these tunes:

If you previously purchased an Accessport from us, our E30 tune file will be $150 to upgrade.

If you already own an Accessport, and was purchased elsewhere, the tune will be $299.


Feel free to let me know if you have any other questions at all!

-Ian
Do you offer this tune stage 2 for the 2018 wrx??
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:57 PM   #213
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Have there been revisions of this tune like the 93? What version of the e30 tune are you guys running?
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:57 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godspeedwrx22 View Post
Do you offer this tune stage 2 for the 2018 wrx??
They do, but I believe you have to have their j pipe
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Old 03-20-2019, 03:53 PM   #215
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running this after a couple weeks of stage 1 91octane. pulls pretty hard, oil temps are a touch lower. feels just as smooth as the stage 1 91 tune. very nice.

however with both maperformance e30 and 91 octane tunes, peak boost hits at 14 psi, or 15.7 if i'm lucky, with sustained boost between 10-12psi during a WOT 3rd gear pull. intake temps between 64F and 88F. boost should be a bit higher, yes? I'll take some logs when i can find a flat section of road. so i'm hunting for boost leaks.

I checked all the plumbing for leaks with no luck. I uninstalled to stock from the 91octane tune (before ethanol ever entered my tank) and got what looked like normal stock boost levels (23psi overboost quite easily, holding closer to 15psi). once i can hit the targeted MAP tune numbers, this tune should be nuts.

Last edited by blackseafleet; 03-20-2019 at 04:23 PM.
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