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Old 02-16-2019, 06:02 PM   #1
vaughn1
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Default Gas Smell in Cabin

Hi All
I have a 2008 Impreza GT - is a JDM ( GH8 chassis) the problem i am having is sometimes I get a raw fuel smell in the cabin. Once I leave the gas cap loose I don't get the smell in the cabin , I do get it on the outside of the car. I have changed fuel regulator, check lines, and still having the same problem, it seems the tank is being pressurised and the fuel fumes vent into the car.

I have run out of ideas as such i am asking for you assistance
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Old 02-16-2019, 07:08 PM   #2
RBYM
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Have you tried the fuel pump?

I had the same issue on my civic. I know it's not a Subaru but it still may apply.

I had to replace the fuel pump. The canister that holds in in was cracked.

Last edited by RBYM; 02-16-2019 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:10 AM   #3
vaughn1
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Fuel pump is good........thanks
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:16 AM   #4
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This happened on all the older model wrx and fxt. It’s leaky fuel rails. Where the rails are connected by fuel injection hose. The hose gets weathered and old and will develop leaks when it contracts from the cold. Then when the car warms up and the hose expands t seals and the leak stops.

You said you checked the hoses but did you REALLY check them or just peek in with a flash light?
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:19 AM   #5
vaughn1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo_Blyat View Post
This happened on all the older model wrx and fxt. Itís leaky fuel rails. Where the rails are connected by fuel injection hose. The hose gets weathered and old and will develop leaks when it contracts from the cold. Then when the car warms up and the hose expands t seals and the leak stops.

You said you checked the hoses but did you REALLY check them or just peek in with a flash light?


Hi thanks...I did a complete check.....but as I said in my post the issue seems to have something to do with the tank pressurizing...once the gas cap is loose there is no smell in the cabin.....it would smell on the outside
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:52 AM   #6
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Your original explanation, plus your follow up reply BOTH still indicate leaky fuel lines.

letís put it this way thatís universal. If something smells like raw fuel, then itís raw fuel thatís causing the smell. Meaning you have raw fuel leaking out of an enclosed system. I can pop my evap lines off right now and put them to my nose and I do not get a raw fuel smell like I did when I had leaky fuel lines.

The vapor stuff in the evap system is not under pressure. If your car is off, and you pull an evap hose off, nothing comes shooting out at you. On my Z800 motorcycle, if I left it in the sun, the energy would transfer into my gas tank, into my fuel, expand it, which forces it thru the overflow tube and Iíd find a little spit puddle of gasoline under the bike. Cars are the opposite and is all an enclosed system. Any vapor goes to the charcoal canister to get collected, itís then burned off thru the evap system.

Fuel lines are under pressure always. So when they are sitting under pressure, they will leak and cause fuel smell in the garage or outside the car because gasoline is just sitting on top of the engine.

If you are confident itís not your fuel lines, then thereís nothing else that I can think of that would cause your issue, and Iíve built multiple fuel systems on multiple Subaruís over the last 15 years.
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:03 AM   #7
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Here’s a thread on full evap removal including the charcoal canister. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2538954

Even when the full evap system is removed, meaning gasoline vapors can now freely exit the rear of the vehicle into the garage, this member said no smell post mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Red Racing View Post
I've just done this full delete on my 2005 race STI. I found this breather for the rear, it fits perfect and is very compact. 3/4", Rubber Top.
S&B Filters, 26-1519JR

I was worried my garage would smell of gas fumes after this but nothing. No fumes smell. At least no more than usual!
Great thread, thanks.
Which backs up the fact that pressure and vapor are not causing your raw fuel smell. It has nothing to do with the gas cap. It is leaking raw fuel that is causing your raw fuel smell.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:49 AM   #8
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughn1 View Post
Hi All
I have a 2008 Impreza GT - is a JDM ( GH8 chassis) the problem i am having is sometimes I get a raw fuel smell in the cabin. Once I leave the gas cap loose I don't get the smell in the cabin , I do get it on the outside of the car. I have changed fuel regulator, check lines, and still having the same problem, it seems the tank is being pressurised and the fuel fumes vent into the car.

I have run out of ideas as such i am asking for you assistance
Where are you located/what have the temps been like?
The car is pretty well sealed EXCEPT the fresh air vents at the back of the hood and the rear fenderwell vents.
Fuel leaks on/near the engine can get sucked into the interior when you select "fresh air" on the HVAC. Maybe try "recirc" and see f the smell goes away.
A little gas makes a big smell, so you don't need puddles anywhere to smell it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo_Blyat View Post
This happened on all the older model wrx and fxt. Itís leaky fuel rails. Where the rails are connected by fuel injection hose. The hose gets weathered and old and will develop leaks when it contracts from the cold. Then when the car warms up and the hose expands t seals and the leak stops.

You said you checked the hoses but did you REALLY check them or just peek in with a flash light?
Agreed, but we wait until they read my post and get back to us.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:54 AM   #9
vaughn1
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The HVAC is on recirculation all the time this have never been on fresh air..... I will take it to a shop and get the lines checked and change......
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:07 PM   #10
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Any vapor leak in the tank area can get pulled into the cabin, especially on recirc. My 07 has the same issue, one of the valves on top of the tank is barely leaking vapor around the rubber seal, you can see the dust is dark and almost wet. You can also smell it with the fuel pump access cover off, mine is the one closer to the fuel pump.

Unfortunately I can't repair it without dropping the tank completely, there is also a metal shield partially covering the valve on mine and you can't drop the tank low enough even with the subframe and differential brace bolts removed. Was hoping mine was a damaged hose from when I replaced the pump, but apparently it was a preexisting problem with the previous owner.
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Old 02-17-2019, 02:18 PM   #11
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on my 2004 WRX Sport Wagon I was first having P0457 and related Evap codes. Then once they were all replaced (literally the entire EVAP system) the smell went away.... for a while.

Then returned. Turned out I had fuel leaks, but instead of the rubber, high pressure OE hoses under the intake, it was the brazing points where the metal lines joined/split and flared. 3 places total. Not enough to puddle, but enough to significantly and noticably impact MPG and the smell was unnerving and inconsistent.

Fuel vapor smells dissipate quickly, like in under a block. and I agree that the vetn system can add/subtract from the severity.

Take fuel issues seriously.

~Rob
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:49 PM   #12
vaughn1
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Dropped the car by the shop...they did a lot of checking, tightening hoses, checking the breather on tbe tank...they haven't found any leaks on the fuel lines / rail but they would continue checking....... One of the guys in the shop suggest a bad fuel cap - he saying the cap suppose to release pressure back to the tank and it seems this cap is not doing that .... Does that even make sense to anyone on this forum?
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:40 PM   #13
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughn1 View Post
Dropped the car by the shop...they did a lot of checking, tightening hoses, checking the breather on tbe tank...they haven't found any leaks on the fuel lines / rail but they would continue checking....... One of the guys in the shop suggest a bad fuel cap - he saying the cap suppose to release pressure back to the tank and it seems this cap is not doing that .... Does that even make sense to anyone on this forum?
Ummmm.....nope......if the tank has excessive pressure, how is a cap going to relieve that pressure to where it's coming from?
Now, can a cap be vented to allow air in (low tank pressure) or out to the atmosphere (not common for decades in autos due to evap emissions) when tank pressure is hi? Yes. But not common for decades due to evap emissions and thus all the purge lines, vents and solenoids.

BTW, some of the engine line leaks require removing the intake manifold due to the location of the clamps on some lines.

You still haven't answered some questions, major one is what are ambient temps like wherever you are?
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:57 PM   #14
vaughn1
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Before I could of said - it only happens at hot temp 39įC, or it only happens when the fuel level in the tank is low...... But as of now it sort of only happen when the fuel level is low but as for the temperature it really doesn't matter anymore.....
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:18 PM   #15
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As much as you don’t want to believe it’s the fuel lines!!! I just had to mess with this last weekend. This is the 3rd year in a row I have tightened them. Next time i’m going to have to pull the manifold and replace the hoses and the clamps.
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:26 AM   #16
vaughn1
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I have informed the shop to remove the intake and check all the fuel hoses.....

Just for my understanding how does the pressure that goes to the fuel lines communicate with the tank? I am trying to get the why having the gas cover loose have to do with a fuel line leak.....

Does the tank maintain pressure to the fuel lines or something? It is confusing to me as to a fuel line leak would not smell in the cabin when the fuel cap is loose but smell outside the car, and once the fuel has cap is tightened it smells in the cabin...

But I will defer to your advise and check the lines because the most important thing is getting the dam thing fix...
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:28 AM   #17
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The thing is, as someone else pointed out, the cabin is pretty well sealed

A. Sealed to where outside smells can’t get in.

B. Sealed to the point where there are ZERO connection points in the cabin for evap and fuel.

The 3 hard lines that go from the tank to the engine are one solid piece inside the cabin. They are connected on the outside by the gas tank and then by the fender/firewall in the engine bay.

When I did a race setup and removed the hard lines, I had to cut them into smaller sections to actually remove them from the cabin so I can run some direct AN email fuel hose.

So bottom line, inside the cabin, there is nothing that would leak or smell. Whatever is causing your smell is originating outside. How it makes it’s way back into your cabin is beyond me. How it makes it’s way into your Cabin before being noticed outside the car is also beyond me.

If it was a pressure issue, you still wouldn’t get a gas smell. High pressure in the system causes overflow into the charcoal canister where it stays until you start the car and the vacuum of the intake manifold sucks the gas out of the charcoal canister to be burned in the engine.

Also if you had an evap pressure issue you would have problems filling up at the gas station because pressure would build and shut off the pump since the excess pressure can’t be sent into the evap system.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:25 AM   #18
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Hi, I found a nasty little leak coming from under my intake manifold right side front. Coming from a hose that is just not tight enough and is absolutely non-repairable without removing the I take. Someone put the clamp on backwards.. it was spraying a mist at the firewall. Hope you find your leak
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:56 PM   #19
vaughn1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo_Blyat View Post
The thing is, as someone else pointed out, the cabin is pretty well sealed

A. Sealed to where outside smells canít get in.

B. Sealed to the point where there are ZERO connection points in the cabin for evap and fuel.

The 3 hard lines that go from the tank to the engine are one solid piece inside the cabin. They are connected on the outside by the gas tank and then by the fender/firewall in the engine bay.

When I did a race setup and removed the hard lines, I had to cut them into smaller sections to actually remove them from the cabin so I can run some direct AN email fuel hose.

So bottom line, inside the cabin, there is nothing that would leak or smell. Whatever is causing your smell is originating outside. How it makes itís way back into your cabin is beyond me. How it makes itís way into your Cabin before being noticed outside the car is also beyond me.

If it was a pressure issue, you still wouldnít get a gas smell. High pressure in the system causes overflow into the charcoal canister where it stays until you start the car and the vacuum of the intake manifold sucks the gas out of the charcoal canister to be burned in the engine.

Also if you had an evap pressure issue you would have problems filling up at the gas station because pressure would build and shut off the pump since the excess pressure canít be sent into the evap system.


The charcoal canister is actually located inside the car at the back of the seat - more to the trunk space, as the car is a hatch back. I changed this and the smell went away for sometime but now it has returned
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Old 02-20-2019, 09:14 AM   #20
Charlie-III
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Wow....

JDM must be different, pretty much ANY USDM I have worked on for decades has ALL the fuel lines (including EVAP) outside the car. This may be part of US safety standards.

When you fill the gas, do you "top it off" or squeeze in more gas to a round dollar?
If yes, then stop doing at. That is one of the most common ways to get slow fuel fill and EVAP codes since liquid gas soaks the pellets in the canister.
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Old 02-20-2019, 11:02 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Wow....

JDM must be different, pretty much ANY USDM I have worked on for decades has ALL the fuel lines (including EVAP) outside the car. This may be part of US safety standards.

When you fill the gas, do you "top it off" or squeeze in more gas to a round dollar?
If yes, then stop doing at. That is one of the most common ways to get slow fuel fill and EVAP codes since liquid gas soaks the pellets in the canister.
When I saw the picture I was taken back by the design choice as well.

I guess we know the culprit then? An interior mounted charcoal canister that has gone bad before and may have gone bad again?
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Old 02-20-2019, 11:59 AM   #22
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My question now. what have this going so often?
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:46 PM   #23
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughn1 View Post
My question now. what have this going so often?
Read my post, answer question.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Wow....

JDM must be different, pretty much ANY USDM I have worked on for decades has ALL the fuel lines (including EVAP) outside the car. This may be part of US safety standards.

When you fill the gas, do you "top it off" or squeeze in more gas to a round dollar?
If yes, then stop doing at. That is one of the most common ways to get slow fuel fill and EVAP codes since liquid gas soaks the pellets in the canister.
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:47 PM   #24
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo_Blyat View Post
When I saw the picture I was taken back by the design choice as well.

I guess we know the culprit then? An interior mounted charcoal canister that has gone bad before and may have gone bad again?
My point exactly.....
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:03 PM   #25
vaughn1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Read my post, answer question.....


Ok.....well I will buy and install another charcoal filter..so based on what you're saying the only thing that could cause the charcoal filter failure is over filling the gas tank- correct?

I guess my initial post I should have included the pictures but I took it for granted USDM had the same setup

Thanks again for the support on this issue
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