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Old 09-13-2006, 01:42 PM   #26
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I agree with Unabomber's review as far as the strength of the PPG gears, but I just want to set the record straight as far as the whining noise of the PPG gears. I have the PPG 1-4 helical synchro box, and the whine is Most Certainly NOT WIFE FRIENDLY. (I gave my GF a ride back from the airport and she says it felt like she was still on the airplane).
While it is quieter than straight cut dog box, it is still MUCH louder than stock. Especially 3rd and 4th gear in low rpms. The high pitched sound takes quite a few turns of my stock radio to drown it out.

I still like my new transmission, in fact I enjoy the whine to a certain degree, and also since PPG is a good preparation step toward a 2.5 torque monster, but I just don't want any fellow members to get mislead on the noise like I did.
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Old 09-13-2006, 01:48 PM   #27
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I rode in his car the day it was installed, and it was very quiet


Ron, has it gotten any louder? And do you know about any HR/va beach residents that might have broken a ppg?
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Old 09-13-2006, 02:55 PM   #28
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Not to be rude Unabomber but I think you are gravely miss repersenting PPG gears by saying you only paid $3500.00. You make people like myself think that I can just give http://www.andrewtechautomotive.com a call and $3500.00 later I have PPG 1-4 tranny and new clutch.

Give us a final TOTAL price or edit your post.

All the crap threads that are in this forum make it hard enough to pick which route to take we don't need another one confusing people more.
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusdrift View Post
I rode in his car the day it was installed, and it was very quiet


Ron, has it gotten any louder? And do you know about any HR/va beach residents that might have broken a ppg?
Hmmm, maybe install issue or just subjective hearing differences? Cuz I know I'm not the only one. This is from another member, cwarcup:
--------------------------------
Anyway, 1) the gear whine is pretty loud, loud enough that when people ride in my car they ask what's wrong with it. From what I've read and heard it's completely normal. 4) The car sounds exactly the same today as it did when I drover it home from andrewtech. I've put about 2500 miles on the new tranny and it still whines, a lot, but I don't really mind it.
-------------------------------
No problems as far as driving goes. The whine actually gets better in the higher rpms.

As far as accurate pricing, I can tell you if you bring your car to andrewtech, drop it off, and pick it up later with 1-4 helical cut ppg syncros, you're looking at 4500 total. Not sure about clutches.
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:24 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deblas66 View Post
How much better or stronger would straight cut gears be over helical?

Is the difference large? Would straight only benefit stupid high hp cars?
No one really knows. In theory, helicals might be stronger than straight due to greater contact patch and more teeth engaging vs. straight cut. This is all theory though. If you are interested, contact Andrewtech to see if they know the differences from PPG as I just know the theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecamel04 View Post
also intrested would straight hold more power than helical. how much power are you running on your gears now?
On my last tune, I was roughly 250HP/250TQ. This tranny might be overkill, but hey why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolRex View Post
My friend met a bugeye WRX at Nopi Dragwars in Rockingham a few months back that was insanely fast running very low 11's. The owner told him he had a PPG equipped tranny and that they took all the beating in the world. Then on his last drag launch he shredded that tranny and blew one of the gears (I think it was 2nd). It had a noticable whine in 1st and 2nd in the vid I saw of it and it sounded just like straight cut gears.

Whether there really were PPG's in there or something else I don't know but I am just stating what we were told. I bet they were Kaaz gears or something. This bugeye was from Virginia I think.
I'm willing to bet he was running something else. If someone did shred PPGs, I'm damn sure Andrewtech would know about it and be the first to offer the customer a deal from hell to find out what went wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoGeo View Post
I agree with Unabomber's review as far as the strength of the PPG gears, but I just want to set the record straight as far as the whining noise of the PPG gears. I have the PPG 1-4 helical synchro box, and the whine is Most Certainly NOT WIFE FRIENDLY. (I gave my GF a ride back from the airport and she says it felt like she was still on the airplane).
While it is quieter than straight cut dog box, it is still MUCH louder than stock. Especially 3rd and 4th gear in low rpms. The high pitched sound takes quite a few turns of my stock radio to drown it out.

I still like my new transmission, in fact I enjoy the whine to a certain degree, and also since PPG is a good preparation step toward a 2.5 torque monster, but I just don't want any fellow members to get mislead on the noise like I did.
Noise is TERRIBLY relative, I'll be the first to admit. To my ears, it's not that bad at all. I can best akin it to say Borla Hush owners who think they have a quiet exhaust. Once I whip out my dB meter and show them the facts.....they find out it ain't so quiet. Subjectively speaking though, from my viewpoint, they are louder than OEM, but not in the least bit annoying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusdrift View Post
I rode in his car the day it was installed, and it was very quiet

Ron, has it gotten any louder? And do you know about any HR/va beach residents that might have broken a ppg?
Nope and nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX-ERROR View Post
Not to be rude Unabomber but I think you are gravely miss repersenting PPG gears by saying you only paid $3500.00. You make people like myself think that I can just give http://www.andrewtechautomotive.com a call and $3500.00 later I have PPG 1-4 tranny and new clutch.

Give us a final TOTAL price or edit your post.

All the crap threads that are in this forum make it hard enough to pick which route to take we don't need another one confusing people more.
Sorry for the confusion as there's a difference between MY price and the price that the rest of the nation pays. I priced the clutch at $450, but I only paid $250 through a buddy. $3500 is the price I paid from Andrew, plus $60 for Motul 300. I'll find out the real cost and edit it with my "lie" so the info is accurate for others.
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:06 PM   #31
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$4300 is the price for those who want to know and I edited my first post. Mind you....I got a special deal through Andrew. As to a TOTAL price....that I don't know as I got my clutch from a buddy and same said buddy did the R&R of my tranny for a song.
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:13 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
$4300 is the price for those who want to know and I edited my first post. Mind you....I got a special deal through Andrew. As to a TOTAL price....that I don't know as I got my clutch from a buddy and same said buddy did the R&R of my tranny for a song.
Is this $4300 the quote is if I took my tranny out MYSELF, and drove MYSELF up to Andrew's and dropped the tranny off and when he was done I came back and picked it up MYSELF and reinstalled the tranny MYSELF?...

In otherwords all Andrew is doing is installing the gears and other stuff.
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Old 09-13-2006, 10:30 PM   #33
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Really....I don't know all the ins and outs of each situation....call Andrewtech and ask them.
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Old 09-13-2006, 11:33 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolRex View Post
Is this $4300 the quote is if I took my tranny out MYSELF, and drove MYSELF up to Andrew's and dropped the tranny off and when he was done I came back and picked it up MYSELF and reinstalled the tranny MYSELF?...

In other words all Andrew is doing is installing the gears and other stuff.
thats what i did, drove from NH to MD and back with the trans. they installed the gears, helped me load it back into the truck and handed me a bill. OMG i wanted to RUN mine was FAR more money than what Ron paid but then again, i have and sti and also installed a better front diff at the same time.

my 1-4 straight cut dog set was incredibly loud for the first 800-1k. now it is loud but not that bad, imo.

ted
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Old 09-13-2006, 11:49 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhsilversti View Post
thats what i did, drove from NH to MD and back with the trans. they installed the gears, helped me load it back into the truck and handed me a bill. OMG i wanted to RUN mine was FAR more money than what Ron paid but then again, i have and sti and also installed a better front diff at the same time.

my 1-4 straight cut dog set was incredibly loud for the first 800-1k. now it is loud but not that bad, imo.

ted
Be quiet you!!! I'm jealous that I'm going to have to save for so long to get mine set up like yours.
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Old 09-13-2006, 11:56 PM   #36
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also, what ratio's did you get?

higher boost because of the gearbox seems strange? if anything, wouldn't it be because of the higher clamping force of the clutch?
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Old 09-14-2006, 12:02 AM   #37
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As you are using the OEM synchro's, did you upgrade to the 06 first gear synchro to get away from the double clutch action (is that possible?). And why no 5th PPG? Cost?
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Old 09-14-2006, 12:49 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Be quiet you!!! I'm jealous that I'm going to have to save for so long to get mine set up like yours.
you guys need to say hell with it and spend the money. stop trying to build a strong backbone for your company, you could write it off anyhow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBW View Post
also, what ratio's did you get?

higher boost because of the gearbox seems strange? if anything, wouldn't it be because of the higher clamping force of the clutch?
this is going to sound rude i think....do you even know why boost is built? it has almost nothing to do with the clutch, that is unless it is slipping a lot. boost builds due to load vs rpm, if you get taller gearing the load will be higher thus allowing the load to be increased. with the 6sp ppg 1-4 i am building at least 17psi in first.
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Old 09-14-2006, 08:19 AM   #39
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Hello everyone. I'm gonna put up prices in the vensor section so there is no question of what is how much.

Andrew Yates
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Old 09-14-2006, 08:21 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastResort View Post
As you are using the OEM synchro's, did you upgrade to the 06 first gear synchro to get away from the double clutch action (is that possible?). And why no 5th PPG? Cost?
Honestly with the PPG gears and good fluid we've had very good feedback on the improvement of first engagement. We use the single syncro with PPG first.
Andrew Yates
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Old 09-14-2006, 08:32 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolRex View Post
Is this $4300 the quote is if I took my tranny out MYSELF, and drove MYSELF up to Andrew's and dropped the tranny off and when he was done I came back and picked it up MYSELF and reinstalled the tranny MYSELF?...

In otherwords all Andrew is doing is installing the gears and other stuff.
Yup. That would be for a 1-4 syncro gearset ($3500), install parts ($95), 1 syncro ($20) since PPG doesnt use factory 3rd, installed in a loose unit ($650).

Andrew Yates
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Old 09-14-2006, 08:58 AM   #42
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Been running PPG helical /synchro 1-4th and all i can say....brilliant gearset

I ve gone from OEM breaking 2nd to Kaaz and now to PPG
Replace my kaaz gearset mainly of the short gear ratio and shifting issues,not to mention the wear after just 8 months....no worth a penny!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since i had the ppg done 120+ passes with car running last week [email protected] know what it does on dyno
As for noise with PPG helical....well nothing compare to Kaaz straight cuts!!!
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Old 09-14-2006, 09:18 AM   #43
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If I am not mistaken one should expect to pay 4500-5500 for a complete PPG set up with a good clutch...

It seems to me that if you are interested in Drag racing only that this is a great set up and the one you must have... however for nearly half the price you can have a 6mt that has beed shown to be very strong, but with less "drag race" friendly gearing.

So would it be safe to say the PPG gears are realy drag race gears?
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Old 09-14-2006, 09:25 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000wrx View Post
If I am not mistaken one should expect to pay 4500-5500 for a complete PPG set up with a good clutch...

It seems to me that if you are interested in Drag racing only that this is a great set up and the one you must have... however for nearly half the price you can have a 6mt that has beed shown to be very strong, but with less "drag race" friendly gearing.

So would it be safe to say the PPG gears are realy drag race gears?
Not to burst any 6 sp fanboy's pride but I think the 6sp is junk. Too busy shifting and all. The only thing I see them being good for is AutoX where you are in short bursts all the time. I have a buddy here that went from the 5 sp to the 6 sp and to tell you the truth, his car feels slow with the 6 sp. When he had the 5 sp it just pulled and pulled. Now it pulls, shift, pulls, shift.


And to 2000wrx you can't get a 6 speed for half the price. 6 speeds go for 3000-3800 and then you have to get driveshaft, rear end and all that ish. Yeah you can go cheaper and get the 3.9 R160 R&P but then before too long you'll snap those spider gears if you have decent power. I agree with Unabomber.....get PPG's and be done with it.
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Old 09-14-2006, 02:29 PM   #45
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I got a 1-4 Straight cut synchro done by Andrew, and it was 4700 just for the transmission repair/install, that didn't include having the tranny dropped and put back in. Which I think was $400.
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Old 09-14-2006, 04:17 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhsilversti View Post


this is going to sound rude i think....do you even know why boost is built? it has almost nothing to do with the clutch, that is unless it is slipping a lot. boost builds due to load vs rpm, if you get taller gearing the load will be higher thus allowing the load to be increased. with the 6sp ppg 1-4 i am building at least 17psi in first.
yes it does sound rude, i also realize that his previous clutch may have been slipping in relation to his new clutch which may not be. less load vs. more load. thanks and come again

edit: and I do realize that the different boost could be attributed to his gear's which is why I asked what ratio's because I didnt know what they were... two variables were changed so its really not a controlled enviroment.
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Old 09-14-2006, 06:02 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBW View Post
also, what ratio's did you get?

higher boost because of the gearbox seems strange? if anything, wouldn't it be because of the higher clamping force of the clutch?
The ratios are in the Transmission FAQ, I don't know them off the top of my head. The are pretty close to OEM, except first, which is much longer. Andrew and I have been cooking up theorys as to what ratios would do to boost. It would seem (honestly, I didn't get a good before and after comparo) that longer ratios stress the motor more. This would equate into more PSI based on load. As I recall, my old first gear blasts netted 5 PSI and the new longer ratio blasts net 9 PSI, so longer ratios = more boost in lower gears without tuning. This isn't a good or bad thing mind you, just a side effect of the ratios.

Previously, I used an OEM clutch and honestly changed it for NO REASON as the tranny was out, a buddy had one, and I might as well do it in one shot. The higher clamping force/new clutch would have no effect on the boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LastResort View Post
As you are using the OEM synchro's, did you upgrade to the 06 first gear synchro to get away from the double clutch action (is that possible?). And why no 5th PPG? Cost?
I'm pretty sure PPG doesn't make a 5th gear. If they did, I wouldn't have gotten it unless it was a better ratio for cruising than OEM. OEM = nearly bullet proof, deadly quiet, and free.

Still have the old synchro style. In order to go to the 06 version, it's a huge and expensive PITA from what Andrew told me. First gear with that Motul 300 is very nice. Admittadly, I hate the Motul 300 dorks here as they seem to look down their noses at the rest of us (sorry for the generalization Motul 300 dorks), but I will admit, its a damn nice fluid. I prefer the blingy blue of the Redline superlight shockproof vs. the clear 300 though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000wrx View Post
If I am not mistaken one should expect to pay 4500-5500 for a complete PPG set up with a good clutch...

It seems to me that if you are interested in Drag racing only that this is a great set up and the one you must have... however for nearly half the price you can have a 6mt that has beed shown to be very strong, but with less "drag race" friendly gearing.

So would it be safe to say the PPG gears are realy drag race gears?
That's a short sighted attitude as PPG gears are cheaper than a 6MT swap. Yes, there is a thread here where someone did it for under $3000....the odds of someone doing it for under $6000 in real life is very low though. I've seen them done by many people and the figure of $6000-$7000 is most common when the dust settles.

PPG gears are great for drag, but also perfect for autocross. HPDE events or road courses....then it starts to lean to the USDM or JDM 6MT though as they are best for them and there's never a best for all gearbox as we all know.
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Old 09-14-2006, 06:46 PM   #48
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Why are the 6mt's better for hpde/road racing?
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Old 09-15-2006, 09:38 AM   #49
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The 6-speed is just a better designed transmission, and the gears are ridiculous.

But don't fret InfamousDX, your 5-speed dogbox is nothing to sneeze at. It's still an amazing transmission!

Phil
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Old 09-15-2006, 12:39 PM   #50
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I for one prefer a 5-speed, but I love the fact that 6-speeds have upgraded diffs. There's more to a six speed other than the extra gear and strength.
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