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Old 01-18-2015, 06:10 PM   #1
gregmyer
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Default turbo upgrade (don't want a Dino queen)

i have bean racking my brain and doing a lot of reading. it is about time for me to increase the power on my car. i am not looking to create a dino queen i don't want to crack the block. i am looking to create a build that will give me great low to mid range power i am not too worried about top end. i drive the car year round mostly in the mountains, and when it snows bad it drives to work. i have modified the suspension brakes cooling (new hoses and aluminum radiator) and exhaust ( manifold, up pipe, and catles 3" turbo back). i have a 4ate and plan on doing a high stall the the same time i do the turbo. i understand that i need to do all the supporting mods (injectors, tvg deletes, sti tmic, fuel pump, intake, protune, and inlet {already have}).

so over all i am tossed up between
1. td04 tith a 19t conversion
2. Vf39
3. td05 18g/20g (less hot)

i was hoping to hear some of your opinions on this.
p.s.
the care is well looked after and has 150k on the clock.
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Old 01-19-2015, 06:15 PM   #2
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VF34 or 16g
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:03 AM   #3
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19T, or VF would be good choices. I had a small 16G on a 2.0 and felt it was too laggy. Definitely don't go larger than a small 16G.
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx43v3r View Post
19T, or VF would be good choices. I had a small 16G on a 2.0 and felt it was too laggy. Definitely don't go larger than a small 16G.
16G "too laggy"
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:36 AM   #5
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I had a Blouch EVOIII-16g and it was my favorite DD turbo to run on a 2.0L WRX and I've run:

VF39
VF24
TD04

a few rpm later spool than a VF39 but pulled hard till 6500rpm.
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Old 01-20-2015, 05:27 PM   #6
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16g 7cm feels way better than any VF out there
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Old 01-21-2015, 11:43 PM   #7
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I am probably going to rule out the vf39 the cracking issue is punting me off. On the 16g is there much difference from the 7cm to the 8cm? Also has any one actuly dun the 19t conversion were there any fitment issues?
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:10 AM   #8
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the wastegate cracks have not shown to effect performance of the turbo
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmyer View Post
I am probably going to rule out the vf39 the cracking issue is punting me off. On the 16g is there much difference from the 7cm to the 8cm? Also has any one actuly dun the 19t conversion were there any fitment issues?
Some quick and easy research on the boards would indicate that the 19t upgrade is just not worth it.

The 7cm 16g is perfectly suited for DD, it's a good balance of compressor wheel size and hotside. An 8cm 16g would be a nice track setup and would pull harder uptop as you're flowing more exhaust gases but then will be limited shortly after by the 16g compressor wheel.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snake32 View Post
16g 7cm feels way better than any VF out there
not neccesarily true, the IO have a 16xt right now and it is not laggy at all. I have also had a vf23 and that hit and pulled alot harder than the 16g with less boost pressure...go figure
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:30 PM   #11
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Of all the turbos I have ever driven or owned on EJ20's, I always preferred a 40-44 lb/min turbo. I wanted a fairly broad powerband but don't autocross so I didn't prioritize spool. The 16GXTs I have played with have tended to be my favorites and my old 7CM 20G was amazing.

You would have trouble convincing me this is a bad powerband for a 2.0L making that much power:

Green - Old Jorge 20G tune, ~20-21 psi
Blue - New Jorge 20G tune, 93 octane, but added big maf intake and wrapped header, ~21 psi
Red - New Jorge 20G tune, 100 octane, ~25 psi
Yes, this was on a stock EJ205 (intake, full exhaust w/wrapped header, DW 750s, APS top mount, inlet, IWG Deadbolt 7cm 2.4" td05 20G). I should also note these were like 4-5 years ago or something.

Last edited by RexFTW; 01-23-2015 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 01-24-2015, 08:27 AM   #12
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I have noticed the vf turbos make better power under 20psi. The TD05 20G makes better power 20+psi.
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f3ar0n View Post
16G "too laggy"
That's my opinion. You have yours. I can say that I've actually owned a 2.0 with a small 16G - have you? In my opinion it was a great turbo in general, and it totally rocked from 3K RPM all the way to redline. However, from 0-2K RPM, there was virtually no spool or power or torque. 0-2K RPM, you may as well have been driving a Smart car.

If you actually have driven a 2.0/16G then I might respect your opinion, but you haven't stated what you actually drive or what you actually know. I know first hand. If you think based on experience that a 2.0 liter with a 16G at 0-2K RPM is a rocket ship, then go ahead and live in your fantasy world.
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Old 01-25-2015, 09:56 AM   #14
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^^burn
thnx for all the feed back. has any one had experience teh the 19t conversion. i haven't seen it allot on subarus but the volvo and sob guys seen to like them.
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Old 01-25-2015, 02:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx43v3r View Post
That's my opinion. You have yours. I can say that I've actually owned a 2.0 with a small 16G - have you? In my opinion it was a great turbo in general, and it totally rocked from 3K RPM all the way to redline. However, from 0-2K RPM, there was virtually no spool or power or torque. 0-2K RPM, you may as well have been driving a Smart car.

If you actually have driven a 2.0/16G then I might respect your opinion, but you haven't stated what you actually drive or what you actually know. I know first hand. If you think based on experience that a 2.0 liter with a 16G at 0-2K RPM is a rocket ship, then go ahead and live in your fantasy world.
Tell us where we can get turbos that you can expect spool or torque at 0-2K RPM. Exhaust drives turbos, it's pointless to have a turbo car and not use the rpm band and expect performance.
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Old 01-25-2015, 02:58 PM   #16
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my stock turbo doesn't even start till 3k.
maybe i should get this one it wont take to long to spool.


Last edited by gregmyer; 01-25-2015 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 01-25-2015, 05:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Guapo View Post
Tell us where we can get turbos that you can expect spool or torque at 0-2K RPM. Exhaust drives turbos, it's pointless to have a turbo car and not use the rpm band and expect performance.
Personally, I like power throughout the entire RPM band. I can answer your question very easily. A typical stage II WRX or STI of any year will virtually spool instantly.

There are many other setups (if you do it right) that will experience very minimal lag.
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Old 01-26-2015, 08:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx43v3r View Post
19T, or VF would be good choices. I had a small 16G on a 2.0 and felt it was too laggy. Definitely don't go larger than a small 16G.
yer tune sucked

Quote:
Originally Posted by f3ar0n View Post
16G "too laggy"
yeah

where DO these idiots COME from
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Old 01-26-2015, 08:49 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snake32 View Post
16g 7cm feels way better than any VF out there
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitchenerWRX View Post
I had a Blouch EVOIII-16g and it was my favorite DD turbo to run on a 2.0L WRX and I've run:

VF39
VF24
TD04

a few rpm later spool than a VF39 but pulled hard till 6500rpm.
ding-ding-ding
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Old 01-26-2015, 09:13 PM   #20
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1. There is a lot of variability between setups which will affect spool. For some the TD05 is too laggy. I had a 6cm on a big tubular header with a large up pipe and of course it didn't spool until 4k and had nothing down low. I put on a stock ported header with a smaller up-pipe, ported my turbo and dropped my spool by 500 rpms.

2. Everyone's definition of unacceptable or undesirable lag is different.

3. Everyone's expectations for top end is different. Yes the TD05 will have a lots of top end power which does not fall off, but you get this at the sacrifice of some low end spool.

4. Some people are okay sacrificing a little top end power for a little more around the town down low power. I currently am running the TD05 16g 6cm stock V2 STI turbo. It's nice on the freeway and I can pass anything, but it's not that great in town which is where I mostly drive it. I'm working on building a TD04-19t billet.

5. Every TD05 16g is not the same, comparing a Blouch with a billet wheel and ported polished housings is not the same as a generic MHI model.

6. Looking at Uncle Scotty's posts around the forum, either his definition of spool is different than everyone else's or he has some magic tune juice which lowers spool. Thus, if you have any different results than he has, you must be incompetent, and if you have a different opinion than him you must be wrong.

Thus, I would base your decision on what turbo to buy on Dyno results on motors with similar setups. You will be able to see where they spool, where the peak torque is, and the shape of the power band. All you're gonna get here is people's opinions which are, of course, all different. All you need to do is google for the dynos.
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Old 01-27-2015, 01:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
not neccesarily true, the IO have a 16xt right now and it is not laggy at all. I have also had a vf23 and that hit and pulled alot harder than the 16g with less boost pressure...go figure

something not quite right there.....
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Old 01-27-2015, 01:44 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRX7 View Post
1. There is a lot of variability between setups which will affect spool. For some the TD05 is too laggy. I had a 6cm on a big tubular header with a large up pipe and of course it didn't spool until 4k and had nothing down low. I put on a stock ported header with a smaller up-pipe, ported my turbo and dropped my spool by 500 rpms.

2. Everyone's definition of unacceptable or undesirable lag is different.

3. Everyone's expectations for top end is different. Yes the TD05 will have a lots of top end power which does not fall off, but you get this at the sacrifice of some low end spool.

4. Some people are okay sacrificing a little top end power for a little more around the town down low power. I currently am running the TD05 16g 6cm stock V2 STI turbo. It's nice on the freeway and I can pass anything, but it's not that great in town which is where I mostly drive it. I'm working on building a TD04-19t billet.

5. Every TD05 16g is not the same, comparing a Blouch with a billet wheel and ported polished housings is not the same as a generic MHI model.

6. Looking at Uncle Scotty's posts around the forum, either his definition of spool is different than everyone else's or he has some magic tune juice which lowers spool. Thus, if you have any different results than he has, you must be incompetent, and if you have a different opinion than him you must be wrong.

Thus, I would base your decision on what turbo to buy on Dyno results on motors with similar setups. You will be able to see where they spool, where the peak torque is, and the shape of the power band. All you're gonna get here is people's opinions which are, of course, all different. All you need to do is google for the dynos.

I road tuned my car almost every time I drove it for a year or so and I did ALL the 'breathing mods' and did all the tricks in the book to get it the way it was

which wasnt really all that much or that hard...

I just had to pay attention and figure it out.

this isn't difficult......just a lot of idiots go about it all wrong and then

most idiots don't really do the right combination of mods and tuning and get poor results

and I did it with a UTEC

with an AP and their race tuner software....it would be a piece of cake

most tuners don't touch the maps below 3k rpm or do just a little tweek or 2 and call it good.....that is bull****

the meat of the map needs to be off idle to 3k...which took me months to get right

and I was at sea level....well...the area where I lived was less than 20' ASL and I got good 93 octane which DID make a bit of a difference as well.


why do you think I tell people they are idiots so often around here
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Old 01-27-2015, 10:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
I road tuned my car almost every time I drove it for a year or so and I did ALL the 'breathing mods' and did all the tricks in the book to get it the way it was

which wasnt really all that much or that hard...

I just had to pay attention and figure it out.

this isn't difficult......just a lot of idiots go about it all wrong and then

most idiots don't really do the right combination of mods and tuning and get poor results

and I did it with a UTEC

with an AP and their race tuner software....it would be a piece of cake

most tuners don't touch the maps below 3k rpm or do just a little tweek or 2 and call it good.....that is bull****

the meat of the map needs to be off idle to 3k...which took me months to get right

and I was at sea level....well...the area where I lived was less than 20' ASL and I got good 93 octane which DID make a bit of a difference as well.


why do you think I tell people they are idiots so often around here

I agree with everything Scotty said except for his recommendation that 16G is the best. Scotty agrees with me 100% - he just doesn't know that he does.

As Scotty said, most tuners will not tune to the level he would, and most would not necessarily know the best combination of modifications to make the 16G on a 2.0 liter the best it can possibly be. Therefore, you shouldn't get a 16G. I agree with Scotty that a 16G is the optimal turbo if everything else is PERFECT(the perfect tune, and the perfect mods), but everything else won't be perfect because 99% of us don't road tune our car for "months", nor do most tuners know the perfect headers, or whether to port of polish, or whether to ceramic coat, etc. There are so many decisions to make when modifying and all of them have to be perfect with the 16G to keep low end power. You will definitely always get high end power from a 16G - no doubt. Keeping the low end power is the trick. Therefore my advice is be conservative and go with a 19T or a VF as the biggest to keep more low end. I personally would also add meth. A VF or 19T on meth will beat the 16G without meth. So I agree Scotty is right, but nobody is going to tune their cars as carefully and methodically as Scotty, so go more conservative.
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Old 01-28-2015, 03:39 PM   #24
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The best damn turbo for a street DD 2.0 according to concesus is an evo III 16G or 18G. Turbo spool up / late boost threshold would be forgotten the moment that thing hits and u stay in boost through the gears.

What many refer to as turbo lag is boost threshold rpm
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx43v3r View Post
I agree with everything Scotty said except for his recommendation that 16G is the best. Scotty agrees with me 100% - he just doesn't know that he does.

As Scotty said, most tuners will not tune to the level he would, and most would not necessarily know the best combination of modifications to make the 16G on a 2.0 liter the best it can possibly be. Therefore, you shouldn't get a 16G. I agree with Scotty that a 16G is the optimal turbo if everything else is PERFECT(the perfect tune, and the perfect mods), but everything else won't be perfect because 99% of us don't road tune our car for "months", nor do most tuners know the perfect headers, or whether to port of polish, or whether to ceramic coat, etc. There are so many decisions to make when modifying and all of them have to be perfect with the 16G to keep low end power. You will definitely always get high end power from a 16G - no doubt. Keeping the low end power is the trick. Therefore my advice is be conservative and go with a 19T or a VF as the biggest to keep more low end. I personally would also add meth. A VF or 19T on meth will beat the 16G without meth. So I agree Scotty is right, but nobody is going to tune their cars as carefully and methodically as Scotty, so go more conservative.

sweetie

the 19t is the BIGGEST POSSIBLE waste of ALL INVOLVED there EVER was

it is the BIGGST FALLACY in turbodom for the 2.0

its an IDIOTS terbo

waste of time.

forever.

a competent build with a competent tune using a 16g will smoke the 19t for breffast, lunch and dinnna

and cost......the same or LESS

FORGET THE 19T....ITS A L00000000SERS TERBO
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