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Old 08-06-2022, 02:55 PM   #7451
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Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
without folding the seats, what can you fit in the cargo area of a golf that you can't fit in a wrx trunk?
Who cares at this point. Geez these are supposed to be drivers cars for performance or sport driving, corners, etc. Yíall discussing and having debates on what will fit in it. Coolers, strollers, pampers? Not aimed at you just the conversation in general. I mean I was just having a discussion with someone yesterday on their Bugeye, power distribution, how much power used to be sent to the rear wheels, the 207 and the redline. Next day I read this and all I see is Will Farrell.

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Well, um, actually a pretty nice little Saturday, we're going to go to Home Depot. Yeah, buy some wallpaper, maybe get some flooring, stuff like that. Maybe Bed, Bath, & Beyond, I don't know, I don't know if we'll have enough time.
Thatís this car in a nutshell. From rally to mom jeans, a gut, man boobs, golf cap, a fanny pack, members only jacket, and some got damn white generic sneakers will Velcro instead of laces. Itís sad to see this whole thing die a slow painful death. Cup holders and how much crap you can fit in it gets 10X or 100X more importance than actually driving the car through a corner.
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Old 08-06-2022, 06:21 PM   #7452
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I almost wonder how anyone used to do anything with late 90's and early 2000's cars. Has everyone forgot how much smaller they were and yet families still had to do what you are doing with them now. Almost every one here makes it sounds like the WRX has to do everything. As big as it is now, yeah that is what Subaru did. The WRX as it was supposed to be, has been dead since the VA came out. The GR was already too big, but at least they tried to make it what it was supposed to be. Which ended up being a huge mistake, as it was too big against the competition for what it was supposed to be built to do. Which is go around corners while kicking up gravel and punching your dumb future self in the face for asking to get groceries with 2 or 3 kids with strollers.

Either way this car is just dumb, it's a WRX by name only. The GR Corolla is the size of a GD and it is going to show how well it does on the track and gravel. Honestly, ask yourselves how many of those standard Corolla hatches Toyota is selling and ask all those families how it is working for them. I bet they are happy with it, because they don't need it to be an anchor to get things they need. Subaru is just screwed because they just kept making it bigger and never slid in a vehicle to replace the growing Impreza.

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Old 08-06-2022, 06:57 PM   #7453
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Originally Posted by bugatti0628 View Post
yeah, unfortunately if the cvt kept the 277fts of torque together with the increased power of 271hp, enough launches would cause cvt belt slippage
Good thing it's not a belt.

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Originally Posted by kayen View Post
I almost wonder how anyone used to do anything with late 90's and early 2000's cars. Has everyone forgot how much......less power they had.
This is the same to me. Talking about how "dangerously" low powered the Impreza/Crosstrek are. People want more now. Could they do it then? Sure. We've had a Subaru in the family since 1980 and seemed to travel fine. Is it easier now? Yeah. Subaru wasn't listening to their customers for a good while after their competitors were when they were getting bigger to be more comfortable. WHEN Subaru finally reacted to that, well, the numbers tell all.
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Old 08-06-2022, 08:59 PM   #7454
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Originally Posted by kayen View Post
I almost wonder how anyone used to do anything with late 90's and early 2000's cars. Has everyone forgot how much smaller they were and yet families still had to do what you are doing with them now.
Americans are now 15 pounds fatter than the 1990's. That's part of it.

The other change is the absurd dimensions of child safety seats. I stopped using my 04 STi as a daily driver because trying to get my 12 month old into the rear facing car seat gave me a herniated disk. Seriously. When the rear facing car seat was installed in the back seat, it was like trying to load a 40 pound bag of concrete into a space capsule. The seat shape and the door opening together left a very small opening though which you had to thread a squirming toddler, while bent over, arms fully extended, trying to get the kid in the damn seat.

Then, if you have a convertible stroller, the thing barely fits in a sedan trunk. It's nuts - I don't know exactly when child safety seats and strollers got so large but it is a real issue.

TL;DR - there's a reason parents drive minivans, CUVs, etc.
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Old 08-06-2022, 09:43 PM   #7455
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The WRX as it was sold in the US has always been a "jack of all trades." But the end of that phrase is "master of none." The minute it's become the perfect toddler hauler is the minute it's failed to be imperfect in the best ways. And that minute is now--arguably last generation.

If you have a current or recent WRX, you're just driving a Legacy GT with a WRX badge. That's fine. Heck I liked the Legacy GT, but the WRX has already lost its identity. The body cladding is just Subaru's way of hammering it home.

I agree the GR Corolla is as close as we are going to get to what the WRX should be. I'd argue the Yaris does it even better.

I'd much prefer if the WRX was a great second car for a family. Good enough in a pinch but not the regular baby mobile. The BRZ is the closest thing Subaru offers now albeit with less accessible rear seats and no awd.

If you're a one car family and you want something fun, I don't know why you're trying to stuff your family in a "compact" sedan. Do your family a favor and get a turbo CX-5 or a V6 Camry. I know that's a mute point though as the WRX isn't really an enthusiast vehicle anymore. It's just for dads who were enthusiasts.

Rebadge the GR Yaris as an STI or turbo the BRZ and give it AWD. These are the kinds of cars the WRX should be--flawed little rally machines. I didn't mind when it became a sports sedan, but a family sedan is a bridge too far. A fun car with some practicality, not a practical car with a side of fun.
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Old 08-06-2022, 10:41 PM   #7456
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The WRX as it was sold in the US has always been a "jack of all trades." But the end of that phrase is "master of none."
just for reference, the full phrase is:

"A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one."
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Old 08-06-2022, 11:06 PM   #7457
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The VB WRX is just about the perfect size. The market dictates their clientele. It is the best blend of performance and practicality as it is going to get right now. Subaru is not going to waste time and money making a car to appease handful middle aged men that are nostalgic about a bugeye they owned 20 years ago .
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Old 08-07-2022, 12:34 AM   #7458
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The VB WRX is just about the perfect size. The market dictates their clientele. It is the best blend of performance and practicality as it is going to get right now. Subaru is not going to waste time and money making a car to appease handful middle aged men that are nostalgic about a bugeye they owned 20 years ago .


That hurts man, lol.
No port injection to go along with direct injection and no wagon, no go for me. I see plenty of 2022 wrx rolling around here, I very much like the look.


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Old 08-07-2022, 01:02 PM   #7459
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The VB WRX is just about the perfect size. The market dictates their clientele. It is the best blend of performance and practicality as it is going to get right now. Subaru is not going to waste time and money making a car to appease handful middle aged men that are nostalgic about a bugeye they owned 20 years ago .
Perfect size for what? Being a Skill-Saw when you really need a Miter Saw for precision cutting or you need a Table Saw for cutting long boards to length or width. But the problem with everyone on here is you want the WRX to do everything, so the WRX is the Skill-Saw. Unlike the GC or GD they were still small and fairly light weight and could still perform some bs consumerism duty.

As someone else on here who practically says why did the WRX have to become the jack of all trades?

Why does the GR Yaris not make it here even though they brought 500 just south of our Boarder. Because everyone wants the car to be a Skill-Saw.

The Legacy XT and Outback XT serves every single persons desire for something quickish and does a better job as a Skill-Saw. The WRX isn't supposed to be that. It was supposed to be a fun and small car, that could do some family things. Honestly if Subaru of 2004 were to confront themselves now in 2022 they would probably shake their heads. They offer everything you guys want in a better package and then you still scream that the WRX should do it too. This is why the WRX has been a disappointment each generation after the next, for something that was supposed to be more like a Miter Saw. E a precision purposed machine that was based of an Econobox platform to save on engineering costs.

Don't most families have two cars? You should be able to get away with a smaller car for fun, that can pull some family duty, but it isn't the primary family vehicle. If you need more space for both of you, we'll you know already a smaller car isn't going to work. Stop making it so that all we get is one choice and that is we can't have a smaller precision vehicle.

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Old 08-07-2022, 02:54 PM   #7460
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Perfect size for what? Being a Skill-Saw when you really need a Miter Saw for precision cutting or you need a Table Saw for cutting long boards to length or width. But the problem with everyone on here is you want the WRX to do everything, so the WRX is the Skill-Saw. Unlike the GC or GD they were still small and fairly light weight and could still perform some bs consumerism duty.

As someone else on here who practically says why did the WRX have to become the jack of all trades?

Why does the GR Yaris not make it here even though they brought 500 just south of our Boarder. Because everyone wants the car to be a Skill-Saw.

The Legacy XT and Outback XT serves every single persons desire for something quickish and does a better job as a Skill-Saw. The WRX isn't supposed to be that. It was supposed to be a fun and small car, that could do some family things. Honestly if Subaru of 2004 were to confront themselves now in 2022 they would probably shake their heads. They offer everything you guys want in a better package and then you still scream that the WRX should do it too. This is why the WRX has been a disappointment each generation after the next, for something that was supposed to be more like a Miter Saw. E a precision purposed machine that was based of an Econobox platform to save on engineering costs.

Don't most families have two cars? You should be able to get away with a smaller car for fun, that can pull some family duty, but it isn't the primary family vehicle. If you need more space for both of you, we'll you know already a smaller car isn't going to work. Stop making it so that all we get is one choice and that is we can't have a smaller precision vehicle.

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And yet the last gen sold more than ALL of those "better" previous gens COMBINED.



I seriously doubt their 2004 versions would be shaking their heads at anything.
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Old 08-07-2022, 03:22 PM   #7461
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
And yet the last gen sold more than ALL of those "better" previous gens COMBINED.



I seriously doubt their 2004 versions would be shaking their heads at anything.
Make more of what sells, sell more of what sells.

The math checks out!

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Old 08-07-2022, 03:45 PM   #7462
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are you guys trying to park in your sheds or something? in what world is a wrx "too big".
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Old 08-07-2022, 04:25 PM   #7463
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And yet the last gen sold more than ALL of those "better" previous gens COMBINED.



I seriously doubt their 2004 versions would be shaking their heads at anything.
Sales doesn't make it the better vehicle, it just means it pleases the masses and their marxist consumerism.

All you are saying is it sells better. Well yeah it sold more, it catered to the damn public, that had no want to be in a stripped out Street Rally car. That is why it sold more, it doesn't make it a better car. It just became watered down and more creature comforts. There is no reason for Leather, moonroofs, electric seats, 12inch displays and the list goes on. Just look at the 2004 STi, it had no radio or speakers, all in the name to save weight and cost. This is still quite common in Japan today, as cars don't come with Radios in a stock car. The Japanese BRZ can be bought without a radio and it allows the buyer to put in what they want.

I feel like hardly anyone understands and remembers the original intent of the WRX/STi. Apparently wanting to stick to their original intent is wrong for those of us out there that wants something more inline to what they used to be. Thankfully the GR Corolla is coming and the GR Yaris would have been a godsend if it were brought here.

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Old 08-07-2022, 05:51 PM   #7464
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"new car sells better than 20-year-old car did" is such a flawed argument.

Economy, brand recognition/perception, customer loyalty, etc. All these things change with time and these cars were sold under different circumstances.

You know what would sell better now? If the WRX was a midsize SUV. That doesn't mean saying as much is relevant to the conversation of what the WRX is or should be.
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Old 08-07-2022, 07:42 PM   #7465
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You know what would sell better now? If the WRX was a midsize SUV. That doesn't mean saying as much is relevant to the conversation of what the WRX is or should be.
Thatís where itís headed. Well on the way now with body cladding etc.

But wait a minute, they offered a FXT. Why didnít that sell like gangbusters then? It should have slayed WRX sales up and down. WRX engine. Got those sit up right seats more room for strollers, and pampers. So in reality what I think is the WRX is an image buy for most. People will use it like a CUV or family wagon of yesteryear. All the same stuff done with it, and sport or performance driving, zero. So in reality itís just a image that the buyers want to give off. ďHey Iím rally dude!Ē Because honestly the LGT, the FXT, even the turbo Outback would be much much better tools for what they are going to do with them. But the ďimageĒ of those vehicles I guess is not something they want to put off. They want to put off the sedan image for some reason
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Old 08-07-2022, 09:18 PM   #7466
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Sales doesn't make it the better vehicle, it just means it pleases the masses and their marxist consumerism.

All you are saying is it sells better. Well yeah it sold more, it catered to the damn public, that had no want to be in a stripped out Street Rally car. That is why it sold more, it doesn't make it a better car. It just became watered down and more creature comforts. There is no reason for Leather, moonroofs, electric seats, 12inch displays and the list goes on. Just look at the 2004 STi, it had no radio or speakers, all in the name to save weight and cost. This is still quite common in Japan today, as cars don't come with Radios in a stock car. The Japanese BRZ can be bought without a radio and it allows the buyer to put in what they want.

I feel like hardly anyone understands and remembers the original intent of the WRX/STi. Apparently wanting to stick to their original intent is wrong for those of us out there that wants something more inline to what they used to be. Thankfully the GR Corolla is coming and the GR Yaris would have been a godsend if it were brought here.

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Originally Posted by OldBlu View Post
"new car sells better than 20-year-old car did" is such a flawed argument.

Economy, brand recognition/perception, customer loyalty, etc. All these things change with time and these cars were sold under different circumstances.

You know what would sell better now? If the WRX was a midsize SUV. That doesn't mean saying as much is relevant to the conversation of what the WRX is or should be.



If it "just" sold better....like maybe 20% better or something, then I'd agree. Selling more than ALLLLLLLLLL the years combined is a strong case to "better" which is HIGHLY subjective anyway. I had the first STi in my state. Absolutely loved it. Sold it to get the 2008 when it first hit(2 first year cars. no issues)and then also had a 2009 WRX(again, first year for engine. no engine issues). I thought the 2008 STI was "better" than my 2004.





These cars are exactly what they are supposed to be. The best version of the car they are based on. Can't help that the base car grew in size. And they weren't going to keep making something on an older, less safe, chassis. If Subaru didn't make the move to "bigger"(as a whole), then maybe they would have gone out of business like a certain someone believes they were sooooo close to.
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Old 08-08-2022, 12:15 AM   #7467
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If it "just" sold better....like maybe 20% better or something, then I'd agree. Selling more than ALLLLLLLLLL the years combined
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but maybe you can tell me: Which Subaru models that've been on sale since '02 haven't had more sales for model years 2015-2022 than 2002-2013? I'd imagine the WRX isn't special in that case. Perhaps that model of the WRX isn't special then either, just a victim of the same circumstances as any other Subaru.
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Old 08-08-2022, 10:31 AM   #7468
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I don't have the numbers in front of me, but maybe you can tell me: Which Subaru models that've been on sale since '02 haven't had more sales for model years 2015-2022 than 2002-2013? I'd imagine the WRX isn't special in that case. Perhaps that model of the WRX isn't special then either, just a victim of the same circumstances as any other Subaru.
Yes, I would agree, all Subaru models had better sales than before, but they are all also bigger to meet the needs of the US market.

So even if the all boats were lifted by the same rising tide...the tide was based on meeting the largest market's expectations: Bigger than a GD.
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Old 08-08-2022, 11:02 AM   #7469
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Yes, I would agree, all Subaru models had better sales than before, but they are all also bigger to meet the needs of the US market.

So even if the all boats were lifted by the same rising tide...the tide was based on meeting the largest market's expectations: Bigger than a GD.
It's been said before, but the current WRX is roughly the same size as the 4th gen legacy. Nearly all "compact" class cars are the size of mid-sized class cars from ~15-20 years ago (holy S*** where did the last 15-20yrs go?).

Someone brought up FXT sales "why didn't they sell more?", and there are several reasons: mainly though, when the FXT was available with a manual, the WRX wagon was also available with a manual; When I bought my WRX wagon I was considering an FXT as well, but the dealer wouldn't budge on the FXT pricing since there were fewer of them in my market when compared to WRX wagons (New England) so I bought the WRX wagon.
When the FXT dropped the manual & got bigger, the WRX hatch was still available. The FXT wasn't discontinued until after the WRX hatch was gone, and by that point it had gotten way bigger and gone down to a 2.0T.
The biggest nail in the coffin for the FXT though is that the typical CUV buyer doesn't care how quick a vehicle is, as long as it fits all their crap & more-so lately, projects their lifestyle/image.

The market/American buying public keeps going for bigger, bigger, bigger; thanks to hybridization the penalties don't have to be as bad as they used to be, however when gas prices hit high numbers, people also aren't rushing out to drop their ~35mpg hybrid CUV for a ~45mpg hybrid car or an EV (anyways); back in ~2008 it was a very different story, people were going from a ~12mpg BOF SUV to a ~35mpg hatchback, however it appears most people didn't learn anything from the experience.
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Old 08-08-2022, 11:09 AM   #7470
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It's been said before, but the current WRX is roughly the same size as the 4th gen legacy. Nearly all "compact" class cars are the size of mid-sized class cars from ~15-20 years ago (holy S*** where did the last 15-20yrs go?).

Someone brought up FXT sales "why didn't they sell more?", and there are several reasons: mainly though, when the FXT was available with a manual, the WRX wagon was also available with a manual; When I bought my WRX wagon I was considering an FXT as well, but the dealer wouldn't budge on the FXT pricing since there were fewer of them in my market when compared to WRX wagons (New England) so I bought the WRX wagon.
When the FXT dropped the manual & got bigger, the WRX hatch was still available. The FXT wasn't discontinued until after the WRX hatch was gone, and by that point it had gotten way bigger and gone down to a 2.0T.
The biggest nail in the coffin for the FXT though is that the typical CUV buyer doesn't care how quick a vehicle is, as long as it fits all their crap & more-so lately, projects their lifestyle/image.

The market/American buying public keeps going for bigger, bigger, bigger; thanks to hybridization the penalties don't have to be as bad as they used to be, however when gas prices hit high numbers, people also aren't rushing out to drop their ~35mpg hybrid CUV for a ~45mpg hybrid car or an EV (anyways); back in ~2008 it was a very different story, people were going from a ~12mpg BOF SUV to a ~35mpg hatchback, however it appears most people didn't learn anything from the experience.
Yes, I agree. I've owned every generation of USDM WRX. '05 FXT w/ a manual was awesome. The '09 FXT with a CVT was less awesome, but still decent. They will never outsell the NA Forester with a Turbo, unless they go 1.6T, etc.

I'm just saying, the car got bigger due to demand.

For me, if the Legacy Spec.B existed, I wouldn't need a WRX. But it's gone, and the Legacy XT is neutered in comparison. So, for us GD+ WRX buyers we are now older, perhaps have families, and Subaru has to straddle two segments with one car, so the WRX got bigger.
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Old 08-08-2022, 12:10 PM   #7471
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Opinion incoming.

The WRX was originally sold as a sports car meant to take on cars like the mustang, and probably some exotics like the boxter of that year. A true import car.

Over time, priorities shifted, and so did the market. Cars kept growing in size because families could only afford 1-2 cars. Dads wanted a sports car that could also be a family hauler.

The WRX is what we all (people outside this forum) wanted. A car that could be comfortable for a family of 4 and still be sporty enough for when Dad is by himself or at the track.
The problem is that the WRX has been trying to do too much. This year, on top of sports car and family car, it gets the "wilderness" badge. Now with the death of the STI, Subaru might be pulling the WRX name on more directions.
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Old 08-08-2022, 12:25 PM   #7472
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paint the fenders, give the car 18psi, throw on brembo's, and literally most people will be happy again.. but that would push the car past STI numbers and the EPA will have a tantrum. Release the solterra, then release the upgraded WRX or STI, = EPA happy with the new "Average" emission numbers coming from Subaru as a whole
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Old 08-08-2022, 12:36 PM   #7473
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Originally Posted by Russ_G93 View Post
paint the fenders, give the car 18psi, throw on brembo's, and literally most people will be happy again.. but that would push the car past STI numbers and the EPA will have a tantrum. Release the solterra, then release the upgraded WRX or STI, = EPA happy with the new "Average" emission numbers coming from Subaru as a whole
While the general idea works, the numbers aren't enough. Solterra is limited to 7,000 cars. That's not going to do much to the overall emissions of Subaru's other meager-MPG offerings, let alone the STI.
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Old 08-08-2022, 01:30 PM   #7474
heavyD
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While the general idea works, the numbers aren't enough. Solterra is limited to 7,000 cars. That's not going to do much to the overall emissions of Subaru's other meager-MPG offerings, let alone the STI.
Moving to EV will be good/bad for Subaru. The good will be that they aren't good at designing engines so that problem (and reliance on CVT's) will be put in the past. The bad is that no matter how much they keep putting it in the Solterra advertisements, symmetrical AWD will also be part of the past as well and Subaru's individuality will be gone. There will be nothing mechanically differentiating a Subaru from any garden variety AWD EV outside of styling.
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Old 08-08-2022, 01:44 PM   #7475
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Moving to EV will be good/bad for Subaru. The good will be that they aren't good at designing engines so that problem (and reliance on CVT's) will be put in the past. The bad is that no matter how much they keep putting it in the Solterra advertisements, symmetrical AWD will also be part of the past as well and Subaru's individuality will be gone. There will be nothing mechanically differentiating a Subaru from any garden variety AWD EV outside of styling.
I think this is the wrong thread for a Solterra debate, but the differences are styling, software, torque distribution/sleeping, nanny intervention, motor/inverter power levels, battery efficiency, etc. Basically, the same things that make one car different from another...style and engineering.
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