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Old 03-29-2007, 12:52 PM   #1451
Knotsure
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Question Not to misdirect the current conversation

We're talking about gas leaking on a hot engine where if it hits the exhaust manifold the car will go up in flames.

[/quote]

but I'm wondering now. This thread has been going on for a few years now and it seems that this problem goes back to 5 year old cars. Have any of them caught on fire because of this? I tried reading through the NHTSA complaints about it and I don't see anything. There was one poster who said his caught fire from it but I asked him for some info. on that and he never came back to post details. If it was a fire hazard, wouldn't that have happened to someone by now or are we all just really lucky (FWIW - had the bulletin done on mine a couple of years ago and no further issues. My Subaru extended warranty paid for it)
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:51 PM   #1452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisarella View Post
I'm guessing you work in a dealership service department which would explain your involvement in this thread, but you obviously couldn't read my entire post through your hostility because you missed all of the relevant details. I'll give you the cliff notes:
I read your thread perfectly. You did not write it clearly and here is why.
Quote:
You should tell them there is a service bulletin that covers it under warranty
That simply states that the TSB will cover it under warranty. What if you are out of warranty? If you are within warranty, you don't need a TSB to get it repaired for free. Your average joe will think the warranty covers it because someone said so. Afterall people think oil changes are covered under warranty.

Quote:
..If your car is still within the coverage period...
...keep escalating it until you get the right person involved...it's a pretty routine thing...my dealer has done close to a hundred of these this year...squeaky wheel gets the grease...we have some stand-up people at some of our dealerships here on Long Island that do the right thing for their loyal customers.

There is no need to escalate anything. If it is within the warranty, it is covered.

Quote:
Blackfang, try not to get so inflamed and post big bold italicized type. It really isn't professional (if your in fact represent a dealer) and it creates a hostile community.
Actually, you are incorrect. I do not represent a dealer. Do you see my employers name in my screen name, profile or anywhere on my posts? Have i officially announced what dealer I work for and this is their veiws? What I do is I represent myself and entitled to my own option granted it may or may not be the same as my employers. A big difference. Also this place is hostile enough wihtout my big bold letters informing people of the right information.

Quote:
No one said you (or any dealer) should eat the cost of work or give free service unnecessarily after SOA has already said they wouldn't cover the work. I was merely saying loyal Subaru owners (which MOST of us are) should try to get this covered under warranty where ever there is grounds.
You sure about that? What do you make of this post then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blukestrel
If the dealership feels cheated by SOA, they should eat it to keep a happay customer. Freaking car dealers!
Hmmm. Sure looks like that person said the dealer should eat it to me.

Quote:
I used to be a tech and know how this works. Dealerships are reluctant to do warranty work because it pays less. Heck, techs don't want to do the warranty work either because it is usually a loss-leader. And I understand where you're coming from if a 1st time customer comes off the street and wants you to do warranty work, but that isn't what I'm talking about here.
I understand where you come from, but the comment I made was in direct response to dealerships should eat it for a customer.

Quote:
I also want to point out that this is a pretty common issue and a dangerous one at that. My feeling is that SOA should just go ahead an make the recall already. We aren't talking about a wind noise here. We're talking about gas leaking on a hot engine where if it hits the exhaust manifold the car will go up in flames.

I agree, but like i have stated my views are different than my employers and I can't change the rules for the factory, I just do my job.
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Old 04-02-2007, 04:35 PM   #1453
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I'm not sure it would necessarily hit the manifold with the hood scoop blowing air in there.

Last edited by Gixxer1K; 04-02-2007 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 04-02-2007, 04:47 PM   #1454
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There have been a FEW instances where the engine bay has caught fire.
IMHO one is too many. I can understand ( from a business perspective ) why SoA has not done a recall if a small percentage of the vehicles sold have actually had engine fires. The sad part is that it will mostly likely take a loss of life to push them into an official recall.
The leak occurs under the intake manifold and drips onto the engine block. I imagine the fuel evaporates before having a chance to make it to the exhaust manifold but that only covers thermal ignition. Spark ignition of the fumes is definitely a possibility plus the fact that SoA may not be able to prove the leak caused the fire ( nor can they disprove ).
In the end it's all about the almighty dollar.....
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:20 PM   #1455
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Ya agreed, I think it's just a problem with the NHTSA / safety system. I don't really expect SoA to go beyond what the industry gets away with.
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Old 04-04-2007, 08:55 PM   #1456
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I've been able to ignore this fuel smell for some time now but its finally warm and I'm tired of it. I also think the part prices are a bit high but what am I going to do about it?

I'm a little nervous that this wont help my smell 100% because I get this smell when I take a large turn. Not a hard turn but a big turn. I'll post back when I'm done. Should be a few weeks since I'm going on vacation and ordering the parts tomorrow. Also a good time to replace the turbo inlet hose.

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Old 04-05-2007, 12:16 AM   #1457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bthomas View Post
I've been able to ignore this fuel smell for some time now but its finally warm and I'm tired of it. I also think the part prices are a bit high but what am I going to do about it?

I'm a little nervous that this wont help my smell 100% because I get this smell when I take a large turn. Not a hard turn but a big turn. I'll post back when I'm done. Should be a few weeks since I'm going on vacation and ordering the parts tomorrow. Also a good time to replace the turbo inlet hose.

02wrx
117K
Why are you doing this work yourself instead of getting SOA to pay for it?
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Old 04-05-2007, 08:46 AM   #1458
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I figured it wouldnt be worth the hassle. I'd rather them just pay for the parts and let me do the labor.

ARe you suggesting it would be worth it to contact SOA first and then my dealer to see if I can get some kind of "goodwill" thrown my way?
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Old 04-05-2007, 11:44 AM   #1459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bthomas View Post
I figured it wouldnt be worth the hassle. I'd rather them just pay for the parts and let me do the labor.

ARe you suggesting it would be worth it to contact SOA first and then my dealer to see if I can get some kind of "goodwill" thrown my way?
Took it to the dealership and handed them the TSB from this thread. They said they would look into it. Got a call later on in the afternoon and said indeed they could do the TSB fix. However, since I was out of warranty, it would cost $405.XX out of my own pocket.

I originally had a case pending with SOA regarding this. So I called SOA back and spoke to the rep who was handling my case. She said she would forward all of the details to their "regional" office to see whether they would cover it or not. Got a call back from the rep and said that SOA will "goodwill" it.

I should be receiving a check in the mail shortly for the cost of the fix. Also, my wrx is an 2002 with 80K miles on it.

You shouldn't have to pay a cent out of your own pocket for this. Call SOA in regards to this problem and then go to a dealership with this TSB.

Don't pay anything for this.
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Old 04-05-2007, 01:02 PM   #1460
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What he said /\.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:40 PM   #1461
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will do I guess it's at least worth a phone call. I'll post my results.
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Old 04-05-2007, 03:05 PM   #1462
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Default from my eperience

Anyone with this raw fuel smell should contact SOA before contacting your friendly dealer. I think it's the path of least hassle (for the owner) to deal with this problem. As a process, I've first contacted SOA, then the dealer, and let the two hook up over the problem. I've never had to pay a cent of my own money for the "repair".
Sad to say though, that the fuel smell is a recurring one for my 02 REX. I've had the repair done three times now. Each time it's the same location: the fuel line underneathe the intercooler. This tells me the fix isn't adequate. During the first repair the original line was replaced with the part mentioned in the tech bulletin. Subsequent repairs involved "retightening the fuel line clamps". Well, woe-of-woes, I crank up the old Thunderbolt Grease Slapper this morning, and what do I smell? $2.75/9 93 octane premium gas! As usual, after the car warms up, the smell subsides. Oh yeah had a bit of a cold snap here, a temp drop into the low 30s last night (from a high of 80 the day before).
So, again, the fix/repair aint permanent. Subaru must be suspect for not being able to affect a better solution.
well, there it is.
darryl
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Old 04-05-2007, 04:54 PM   #1463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl View Post
Anyone with this raw fuel smell should contact SOA before contacting your friendly dealer. I think it's the path of least hassle (for the owner) to deal with this problem. As a process, I've first contacted SOA, then the dealer, and let the two hook up over the problem. I've never had to pay a cent of my own money for the "repair".
Sad to say though, that the fuel smell is a recurring one for my 02 REX. I've had the repair done three times now. Each time it's the same location: the fuel line underneathe the intercooler. This tells me the fix isn't adequate. During the first repair the original line was replaced with the part mentioned in the tech bulletin. Subsequent repairs involved "retightening the fuel line clamps". Well, woe-of-woes, I crank up the old Thunderbolt Grease Slapper this morning, and what do I smell? $2.75/9 93 octane premium gas! As usual, after the car warms up, the smell subsides. Oh yeah had a bit of a cold snap here, a temp drop into the low 30s last night (from a high of 80 the day before).
So, again, the fix/repair aint permanent. Subaru must be suspect for not being able to affect a better solution.
well, there it is.
darryl
Darryl,

Man I'm really hoping your experience isn't common!

I do not want to have to fight with SOA over this again.

Even more reason for the NHTSA to force a RECALL. It's bad enough to have a fuel leak, but to have the SOA authorized repair not fix the problem permanently is inexcusable.

Anyone else here have the repair done at a Subie dealer per the TSB and have the leak reoccur?
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Old 04-05-2007, 05:10 PM   #1464
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Chances are the technician didn't replace the lines/hoses per the TSB and just tightened them.
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Old 04-05-2007, 05:13 PM   #1465
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Default resistance is futile...

I also hope no one else has had recurring leaks, but I think I cannot be alone. It would speak volumes about the ineptitude of my dealer's Suby-trained service mechanics if that were the case. Better to think it's an engineering design failure pressed onto dealers as the appropriate fix.
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Old 04-05-2007, 05:39 PM   #1466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfang View Post
Chances are the technician didn't replace the lines/hoses per the TSB and just tightened them.
I feel bad for Darryl, but for everyone else's sake I hope you're right.

Last edited by sajohnson; 04-05-2007 at 05:40 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-05-2007, 05:41 PM   #1467
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I wouldn't go assuming anything about the technician now. Chances are he may not even have gotten the TSB on that specific repair, and just did the normal inspection and found the clamps to be loose and did what anyone else would do...tighten them. You can't fault him for that. That may have been his first time making that specific repair.

The TSB goes into detail on replacement of improved parts.
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Old 04-06-2007, 07:49 AM   #1468
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Default hey guys

When I first brought the fuel smell issue to my dealer, I spoke with it about the TSB, and this thread. Supposedly the replacement part was ordered, then installed on my car. Subsequently future leaks were blamed on leaks at the clamps. Now, I don't know that the replacement part was actually installed, as I never looked. I believed the the dealer about the repair, and have maintained a good relationship with it. So, if the repair was not actually done, then I'd be pretty put out. How to resolve this? Well it just so happens that the new service manager there at the dealer, and I go back a ways. I owned a 91 MR2 turbo, and worked with the (then Toyota) service manager to do some mods on that car. It was a good relationship then, so I might prevail upon him to investigate my fuel leak repairs to date. I'll see what that turns up. Meanwhile, It's still cold here, so I expect that when I head out this morning, I will smell high octane for a while.
Darryl
PS, just got back from taking the wife to work. Started the car, and smelled gasoline until it warmed up. Same symptoms as before the first repair.

Last edited by Darryl; 04-06-2007 at 08:19 AM. Reason: update
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Old 04-06-2007, 12:39 PM   #1469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl View Post
When I first brought the fuel smell issue to my dealer, I spoke with it about the TSB, and this thread. Supposedly the replacement part was ordered, then installed on my car. Subsequently future leaks were blamed on leaks at the clamps. Now, I don't know that the replacement part was actually installed, as I never looked. I believed the the dealer about the repair, and have maintained a good relationship with it. So, if the repair was not actually done, then I'd be pretty put out. How to resolve this? Well it just so happens that the new service manager there at the dealer, and I go back a ways. I owned a 91 MR2 turbo, and worked with the (then Toyota) service manager to do some mods on that car. It was a good relationship then, so I might prevail upon him to investigate my fuel leak repairs to date. I'll see what that turns up. Meanwhile, It's still cold here, so I expect that when I head out this morning, I will smell high octane for a while.
Darryl
PS, just got back from taking the wife to work. Started the car, and smelled gasoline until it warmed up. Same symptoms as before the first repair.
This may be obvious to you, but you should get your car over to that service manager soon (like drop it off tonight) while it is sill cold.
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Old 04-06-2007, 02:05 PM   #1470
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Darryl, again the Technician may have just tightened the clamps and that is why you are still getting that smell. There could also be something else, who knows. I would go over and speak with the Service Manager and see why you are still getting that smell.
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Old 04-06-2007, 02:17 PM   #1471
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Well this is what SOA said:
"Technical Service Bulletins are not an indication that every vehicle will experience the condition described, nor are they safety related, which is why they are not treated as Recalls or Service Campaigns. They are merely revised and standardized repair procedures that our Technical Support team develops as the result of their experience with our service technicians. This way, whenever a dealer comes across this concern there is a firmly established repair procedure that is easily interpreted.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has extensively investigated this issue along with Subaru of America, Inc. and determined that this concern poses no safety risk and to date there have been no reported injuries or fires (since this bulletin was released in 2003) as a result of this concern.

And, with 117,000 miles on your 5-year old WRX, please realize that even with actual recalls, there are still age and mileage limitations as it relates to qualification for repair cost coverage.

If you have any other questions, do not hesitate to reply to this email.

Sincerely"
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Old 04-07-2007, 02:10 AM   #1472
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Default Another fuel leak, dripping this time

Looks like I had this issue too, except when very cold the fuel dripped from the line in my car at the rate of about 1 drop/second. My 02WRX has 66k miles on it and is within the TSB. Talked to SOA and the dealer. SOA covered most of the cost, and the dealer hit me for $95. I'll live with that, although I have a suspicion that the $305 from SOA was to cover the entire cost and the dealer added a little profit.

Of course, I was out a $260 tow bill to haul my car down off a mountain (we were skiing) when it happened. Oddly enough I didn't want to drive it that way. Normally I live in an area where it never drops below 25F, so it was never before an issue on my car.

Although I have often thought it was a bit stinky on cold start in the morning. I just assumed it started a bit rich. Perhaps this will help.

My thanks to the many of you who helped soften up Subaru before me. And to post the info here. Without you I would have been hit with the entire bill. This really is one of the better owners groups out there. I also have an RX8, and while I love the car the rx8 online group could use some valium. They flame over nothing. And bicker endlessly.

Anyway, Thanks!
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Old 04-09-2007, 11:37 AM   #1473
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Originally Posted by meandean View Post
Looks like I had this issue too, except when very cold the fuel dripped from the line in my car at the rate of about 1 drop/second. My 02WRX has 66k miles on it and is within the TSB. Talked to SOA and the dealer. SOA covered most of the cost, and the dealer hit me for $95. I'll live with that, although I have a suspicion that the $305 from SOA was to cover the entire cost and the dealer added a little profit.

Of course, I was out a $260 tow bill to haul my car down off a mountain (we were skiing) when it happened. Oddly enough I didn't want to drive it that way. Normally I live in an area where it never drops below 25F, so it was never before an issue on my car.

Although I have often thought it was a bit stinky on cold start in the morning. I just assumed it started a bit rich. Perhaps this will help.

My thanks to the many of you who helped soften up Subaru before me. And to post the info here. Without you I would have been hit with the entire bill. This really is one of the better owners groups out there. I also have an RX8, and while I love the car the rx8 online group could use some valium. They flame over nothing. And bicker endlessly.

Anyway, Thanks!
Dude, you shouldn't have to pay 1 cent out of your own pocket. The fee that the dealership charged you, send that invoice to SOA. They should cover that as well.

The dealership quoted me with a $403.XX bill. I payed that bill and sent it to SOA and they are reimbursing me for the full $403.XX charge. I should be receiving the full amount today or tomorrow.

You shouldn't have to pay a cent out of your own pocket. That is wrong.
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Old 04-09-2007, 01:27 PM   #1474
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I just made my appointment after seeing the TSB I also contacted SOA and they are going to follow up with my dealership Russel Subaru in MD (who suck!!!!). So hopefully I will be smell free after weds! I guess I need to reflash back to stock before I take my car in?
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Old 04-10-2007, 02:47 PM   #1475
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yes, I just had my wrx in the shop for fuel smell, 2 weeks later fuel smell was back. Took it back, I showed the tech where the fuel leak was and he proceeded to re tighten the clamp. Did not help now its leaking in another place. I called up the dealership to let them know that I would like the whole fuel rail (everything changed out). Said I will cost about 800.00. It will go in late this week. Have contacted subaru and they agreed to pay for partial of the first fix. Total out of pocket 100.00, this next email that I send will be more aggresive.
2002 wrx wagon. 47,000 miles manufactured date 7/2002.
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