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Old 08-26-2017, 07:53 PM   #1
lowbee
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Default Crawford V3 AOS - Q&A

I was asking a bunch of questions about the Crawford V3 AOS in the wrong sub-forum and the fine people at Crawford was very responsive to provide the answers so here they are so others use as reference

Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Is the a link to more information about the Dual Chamber design of v3 and why it is superior to v2 ?
A few pics would be nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford Performance View Post
Here is a link to some info on our website; https://crawfordperformance.com/coll...present-sti-ej

One of the best things about the dual chamber design found on all our V3 AOS is there is no need to take it off to have your car smoged. Our Dual Chamber V3 retains all the original smog components and they are still located in their stock locations.
The install time is easily 50% less so the install cost will also be 50% less.

FYI, we are having a Group Buy at the moment with the potential for a 30% discount on the retail price. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...6#post45295716
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
So I read the installation instruction and please let me know if my understanding below is correct...
  1. Port 4 double as the oil return line as well as vent from Crankcase
  2. This V3 AOS provide NO AOS function for the potential path from the 2 valve (rocker) cover vents to the intake duct on a EJ engine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford Performance View Post
That's correct, the port that comes from the PCV valve is also where the de-atomized oil returns to the crankcase.

The ports you are speaking of that go to the valve covers on an EJ motor are not a vent for the valve covers as you stated. This is where the air enters the motor so it can vent out the center crankcase vent, with the system connected this way there is no moisture buildup within the motor or any of its venting hoses as it is all sucked out through the PCV valve and through the other side of the crankcase vent which goes to the intake tube.

QC
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Thanks for the quick response. So those 2 valve cover ports are inlets to the motor only and under no condition does the flow reverse ?

Can you help me understand why other AOS and dual catch can setup put AOS function on those 2 ports back to the intake duct ?

I want to believe you but I just need a little more help before I put a deposit down
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford Performance View Post
Your welcome,

If you have a broken piston then there could be more crankcase pressure than can make it out the block vent, in this scenario air could change direction and come out the valve covers. On our V3 AOS for the FA motors we have these lines going through a second chamber within the AOS just in case, but we have never seen any oil enter this second chamber.

Almost all the other AOS units on the market followed our hose routing on our V1 and V2 units as we were the first company to design a specific AOS system for the Boxer.

If you purchase our AOS and it does now work as stated then we will be happy to return your moneys.

QC
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
That's good to know. Last couple of questions
  1. What is the capacity of the AOS ? How much oil can it hold ?
  2. Does the oil only drain back to the pan when engine is off ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford Performance View Post
I am not sure of the capacity as it is not designed to hold oil, rather separate the oil mist from the air.

The oil drains back whenever the PCV valve is open, which is whenever there is manifold vacuum. While making boost the PCV valve is closed.

We have been using our Dual Chamber V3 AOS on our boosted BRZ for almost 5 years now, it is also used on the DIT platform that has been out for the same amount of time. Our Dual Chamber V3 system / concept has been working fantastic with zero issues.

QC
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Has the V3 AOS been track tested ? How many hours were tested on the track ?

I remember reading somewhere that some AOS are filling up on the track (not draining fast enough) but can't remember which brand....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford Performance View Post
We designed the first V3 5 years ago now and they have seen lots of track time during this duration, the actual hours is an unknown as it has been way too long now.

We have had some of our AOS fill up with oil, but that was our V1 in a frigid climate. This is one of the reasons our V3 units have a totally different location which is forward from the frigid blast coming through the hood scoop. We have never heard of our V3 units filling up with oil and its not technically possible.

QC
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Sorry, a follow up question please regarding breather inlets.... I pull the hoses off the metal tubing in front of the Intercooler to check for signs of oil using Q-tips and found evidence of oil smudge inside the tubing. I can't explain how oil got there if the breather inlets are only sucking in air and not blowing some out.... any ideas ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford Performance View Post
.....
Those hoses and tubes on your EJ are connected to the crankcase so they will see the oil mist that is floating around inside the crankcase, even when the motor is shut off and still hot.

During idle and no boost driving with your EJ, the PCV valve is open and sucking the air out of the crankcase, and this is the path for the air to enter the crankcase via the valve covers.
There is another port in the back of the block on an EJ where the PCV valve is located and this one is where the dirty air leaves the block during boost, but if you have a tired motor with lots of blow by you might see dirty air in the hoses in your photo as the pressure will take the path of least resistance.

QC
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
....
Does V2 have dual chamber design too or is dual chamber something new to V3 ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford Performance View Post
All the V3 units have fully divided / sealed "dual chambers", one sees manifold pressure and vacuum while the other only sees the more ambient crankcase pressure / vacuum. Each of these two chambers is divided up again to increase the square inches of wall space within to increase the efficiency of our separator. This also creates a labyrinth that the oil mist must pass through before the air can make its way out the top.

The V1 and V2 units have one central "swirl pot" chamber that all the inlet ports share. These units also employ our same internal labyrinth to increase the efficiency of the unit.

FYI... When looking at other AOS on the market make sure they have an internal labyrinth inside them, if they do not then they only have half the separating ability as one that does.

QC
Btw, if you hadn't notice Crawford is running a group buy for upto 30%...
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Last edited by lowbee; 08-26-2017 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 08-26-2017, 09:35 PM   #2
lowbee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford Performance View Post
All the V3 units have fully divided / sealed "dual chambers", one sees manifold pressure and vacuum while the other only sees the more ambient crankcase pressure / vacuum.......
So in the picture below, the blue ports sees manifold pressure/vacuum and the red ports see ambient crankcase pressure/vacuum ?



I am having a hard time choosing between the V2 and V3 AOS..... I like that the V2 have connections to the rocker breather ports where it offers some protection should the rocker vents decide to blow out oil vapor, I also like the idea of getting rid of the PCV but V2 lacks the more effective "dual chambers" design.

I like that the V3 is much simpler to install and mounted where heated coolant lines are not necessary but V3 lacks connections to the rocker breather ports which I am seeing oil vapor in the tube now....I don't believe I have an old and tired engine.

There has to be an easier way to choose between V2 & V3 based on usage, for example, tracking or daily driven, icy cold weather, smog test, etc...

Both are of the same price don't help either

Any help Crawford ? or anyone ?
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:05 PM   #3
Crawford Performance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowbee View Post
So in the picture below, the blue ports sees manifold pressure/vacuum and the red ports see ambient crankcase pressure/vacuum ?



I am having a hard time choosing between the V2 and V3 AOS..... I like that the V2 have connections to the rocker breather ports where it offers some protection should the rocker vents decide to blow out oil vapor, I also like the idea of getting rid of the PCV but V2 lacks the more effective "dual chambers" design.

I like that the V3 is much simpler to install and mounted where heated coolant lines are not necessary but V3 lacks connections to the rocker breather ports which I am seeing oil vapor in the tube now....I don't believe I have an old and tired engine.

There has to be an easier way to choose between V2 & V3 based on usage, for example, tracking or daily driven, icy cold weather, smog test, etc...

Both are of the same price don't help either

Any help Crawford ? or anyone ?
That's correct, the top chamber is the pressurized one while the bottom chamber just sees the crankcase. You will notice that ports on the top / pressure chamber have machined groves in them so the hoses do not blow off during high boost situations.

AS for your V2 or V3 dilemma... On my street driven car I choose the V3 and on my dedicated track car I choose the V2.

Let me make it easier on you, go with our V3 and run it for 6 months. If you are seeing oil in the valve cover breather lines instead of the fine coating you have now then I will be happy to take the V3 back and send you a new V2.

Quirt C
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:50 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford Performance View Post
.....Let me make it easier on you, go with our V3 and run it for 6 months. If you are seeing oil in the valve cover breather lines instead of the fine coating you have now then I will be happy to take the V3 back and send you a new V2.

Quirt C
QC, I have never encountered a vendor with the responsiveness, dedication, and customer focus you displayed over the past few days. You not only earned my respect, but also my business.... I hope you keep this up.

OK, so V3 it is..... Is there a need to relocate/move/bend the large wiring harness mounted next to the strut tower anymore ?

-
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Old 08-27-2017, 10:42 AM   #5
Crawford Performance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowbee View Post
QC, I have never encountered a vendor with the responsiveness, dedication, and customer focus you displayed over the past few days. You not only earned my respect, but also my business.... I hope you keep this up.

OK, so V3 it is..... Is there a need to relocate/move/bend the large wiring harness mounted next to the strut tower anymore ?

-
Thanks for the kind words, I actually enjoy sharing my knowledge but get turned off by the haters / trolls. Life is too short to argue...

With our V3 there is no need to relocate anything, it is a tight fit though! Mounting the AOS to the engine makes everything so much better and cleaner.

QC
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:11 PM   #6
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Thank you to lowbee for your excellent questions regarding the v3 AOS. And thank you to Quirt C. for answering the questions. I have signed up to get the v3 AOS as part of the group-buy (sort of spontaneous), and I had similar questions as lowbee. I had run the Perrin AOS for 4 months, and Moroso dual catch can setup on my stage 2 WRX for roughly 18 months. My switch to the catch cans was ultimately driven by by my desire to actually see what was coming out of the engine. Repeatedly, the rocker-cover can presented almost nothing, and sometimes just a few drips of water. While the crank-vent always produced a gush of chocolate milk (oil-water mixture). I see now from your explanation why that is! I had pre-conceived that the rocker-covers would be venting to the inlet hose, and it's really exciting to know that it had always been working in reverse! This answers so many questions for me! Thank you to Quirt for being active in the subaru community , and answering our questions! I am very excited to get that V3 AOS installed now!

Last edited by FamousAmos; 08-27-2017 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FamousAmos View Post
Thank you to lowbee for your excellent questions regarding the v3 AOS. And thank you to Quirt C. for answering the questions. I have signed up to get the v3 AOS as part of the group-buy (sort of spontaneous), and I had similar questions as lowbee. I had run the Perrin AOS for 4 months, and Moroso dual catch can setup on my stage 2 WRX for roughly 18 months. My switch to the catch cans was ultimately driven by by my desire to actually see what was coming out of the engine. Repeatedly, the rocker-cover can presented almost nothing, and sometimes just a few drips of water. While the crank-vent always produced a gush of chocolate milk (oil-water mixture). I see now from your explanation why that is! I had pre-conceived that the rocker-covers would be venting to the inlet hose, and it's really exciting to know that it had always been working in reverse! This answers so many questions for me! Thank you to Quirt for being active in the subaru community , and answering our questions! I am very excited to get that V3 cant installed now!
Thanks guys, your making an old man happy today

QC
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Old 08-28-2017, 12:23 AM   #8
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I'd love to get on board for a V3 for my 2004 FXT but I believe I'd need the 02-07 GD fitment for a TMIC. Is there any way I can get the group buy pricing, but wait until it is released?

Unless you think a V2 is better...I have an IAG Stage 1 block currently, but I am still running my stock turbo and don't have plans to make big power anytime soon. It's my daily and it happened to crack a ringland which spurred the motor build.
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:41 AM   #9
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Looking at Rally Sports website...I can't tell if they have V2 or V3? And on fastwrx.com it says it is V2, so where do I get the V3?

And is there a Group Buy right now?
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigboat_2 View Post
I'd love to get on board for a V3 for my 2004 FXT but I believe I'd need the 02-07 GD fitment for a TMIC. Is there any way I can get the group buy pricing, but wait until it is released?

Unless you think a V2 is better...I have an IAG Stage 1 block currently, but I am still running my stock turbo and don't have plans to make big power anytime soon. It's my daily and it happened to crack a ringland which spurred the motor build.
The hood is too low on your 04 FXT to fit our V3 so that's a no go for you, sorry. Taking your money now with a promise to have a new product for you down the road at an unknown time is not good business, better to wait until we have it built and the R/D done. Our V2 is the best option for you at this point in time.

QC
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mejifair View Post
Looking at Rally Sports website...I can't tell if they have V2 or V3? And on fastwrx.com it says it is V2, so where do I get the V3?

And is there a Group Buy right now?
The group buy is here; https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2850446 You can also purchase from our website anytime if you chose to do so after the GB ends.

And FWIW, RS sells our V3 as well.

QC
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:51 AM   #12
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here are a pics of the clamps that came with the AOS, are they really that bad??

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Old 10-05-2017, 11:54 AM   #13
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For me, clamps of that size boil down to preference:

Spring clamps are nice and easy to install/remove, but they lose some tension over time.

Worm gear clamps (pictured) are very secure, but slow to install/remove, and eventually they will deform and jump teeth.

Subaru used worm gear clamps with grooves instead of ladder rungs on a few oil lines in a few years; they're a little better, but if you don't plan to remove/install often, I recommend Oetiker clamps (below) on semi-permanent lines and spring clamps on the ones you plan to remove once in a while. The clamping tool is about 20 bucks and I guarantee you'll get enough mileage to make it worthwhile after you get used to using the clamps.

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Old 10-05-2017, 12:51 PM   #14
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So on that picture above with those two hoses circled. Does anyone have an 18' STI? My AOS should be coming today from Crawford but looking at my clamps they are smooth all around? WTH

Are those true one-time use clamps and does anyone else with an '18 know what i'm talking about? I plan on sticking a flathead in there to see if I can bend it to see if they break or come off.
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ljspeed View Post
So on that picture above with those two hoses circled. Does anyone have an 18' STI? My AOS should be coming today from Crawford but looking at my clamps they are smooth all around? WTH

Are those true one-time use clamps and does anyone else with an '18 know what i'm talking about? I plan on sticking a flathead in there to see if I can bend it to see if they break or come off.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...ighlight=clamp
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Old 10-05-2017, 02:10 PM   #16
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Thanks Pigboat!!
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Old 10-14-2017, 04:00 PM   #17
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Ok so I got my Crawford V3 today and opened the box.... upon examination I notice the "mounting arm" has a slight bend to the right towards the bottom (the arm is not a flat piece of metal) and I am assuming that it is designed that way and the bend is not damage from shipping. Can anyone with a V3 or Crawford confirm that ?

Btw, what are the 2 (1 small, 1 big) plastic caps for ?

-
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:37 AM   #18
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If you're referring to the bend on the vertical axis, yes that's supposed to be there
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Old 10-21-2017, 06:27 PM   #19
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I am glad I haven't seen any horrible installation experience documented here on the V3 yet....
Looking forward to have mine installed shortly....
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Old 10-26-2017, 07:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowbee View Post
Ok so I got my Crawford V3 today and opened the box.... upon examination I notice the "mounting arm" has a slight bend to the right towards the bottom (the arm is not a flat piece of metal) and I am assuming that it is designed that way and the bend is not damage from shipping. Can anyone with a V3 or Crawford confirm that ?

Btw, what are the 2 (1 small, 1 big) plastic caps for ?

-
The plastic caps are to cap off the noise generator on the newer STI's.

And the bend in the bracket gives it more strength so it was planned that way

Thanks for choosing Crawford
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:45 PM   #21
lowbee
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I wish Crawford would offer the option of shipping the AOS with flex clear oil rated tubing like these http://www.jgbhose.com/Data_Returns/...=1010980&id=39
So I can be reassured visually from time to time that none of the lines are plugged.....

I would order them myself but I don't need 100 feet of this stuff
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:44 PM   #22
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Hi Crawford -
I have a 2016 STI car with the DOM1.5 XTR, FF System, FMIC, ETS TBE, ETS CAI, 1000 injectors, fuel pump etc. and the competition series IAG AOS. This tune has been running just fine for the last ~8000 miles. Recently I went for an oil change at Christian Brothers, a local reputable mechanic shop. They do not perform any tuning work on the car and is my go to place for a basic oil change and tire rotations. This is the second time they have performed an oil change on the car. As they do not carry the Motul brand, I purchase the oil online and take it to the shop when having the oil changed.
For oil change, I use Motul 8100 5w40 and have only used this oil since the tune had been performed on the car and as it is recommended by my tuner. Oh and the blue Subaru oil filter.
Yesterday while driving (some spirited driving) I noticed light smoke coming out from under my car. No smell / light smell. This is definitely not normal so I take the car back to Christian Brothers, we have it lifted and notice that most of the underbody of the car as well as the rear bumper has signs of oil spray. More on the underbody of the car than than the bumper. It seemed that most of the underbody was covered in oil.
The oil on the underbody of the vehicle is heating up causing the smoke to come from the sides of vehicle. Easily noticeable when the vehicle is at a stop. We checked the oil level on the car and noticed that it was very low. I’ve only driven the car 200 miles since the oil change. And prior to this I’ve never had problem with blow by oil and oil has never gone low. We proceed to add more oil to get it a safe level.
I’ll be taking the car to my tuner, already have an appointment made.
Other than that I do not have any CEL or other problem. But I’d like to understand why all of a sudden I have a lot of blow by oil coming out of the hose from the AOS going to the under body of the car.
Looking for help from Crawford or other forum members who can add any insight or experience. The engine bay looks dry and I didn’t see any loose hoses or leaks from the hoses connected to the IAG AOS. Exit point for the oil seems to be the hose leading out to the underbody of the vehicle.
Could it be that:
1. Something (e.g. a hose) has come loose? (I couldn’t find one)
2. The wrong oil was used during the oil change – and not the one I provided?
3. I should try a different heavy oil?
4. ???
Any help, insight is appreciated.
Thanks!
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Old 11-27-2017, 06:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinoMagic View Post
Hi Crawford -
I have a 2016 STI car with the DOM1.5 XTR, FF System, FMIC, ETS TBE, ETS CAI, 1000 injectors, fuel pump etc. and the competition series IAG AOS. This tune has been running just fine for the last ~8000 miles. Recently I went for an oil change at Christian Brothers, a local reputable mechanic shop. They do not perform any tuning work on the car and is my go to place for a basic oil change and tire rotations. This is the second time they have performed an oil change on the car. As they do not carry the Motul brand, I purchase the oil online and take it to the shop when having the oil changed.
For oil change, I use Motul 8100 5w40 and have only used this oil since the tune had been performed on the car and as it is recommended by my tuner. Oh and the blue Subaru oil filter.
Yesterday while driving (some spirited driving) I noticed light smoke coming out from under my car. No smell / light smell. This is definitely not normal so I take the car back to Christian Brothers, we have it lifted and notice that most of the underbody of the car as well as the rear bumper has signs of oil spray. More on the underbody of the car than than the bumper. It seemed that most of the underbody was covered in oil.
The oil on the underbody of the vehicle is heating up causing the smoke to come from the sides of vehicle. Easily noticeable when the vehicle is at a stop. We checked the oil level on the car and noticed that it was very low. Iíve only driven the car 200 miles since the oil change. And prior to this Iíve never had problem with blow by oil and oil has never gone low. We proceed to add more oil to get it a safe level.
Iíll be taking the car to my tuner, already have an appointment made.
Other than that I do not have any CEL or other problem. But Iíd like to understand why all of a sudden I have a lot of blow by oil coming out of the hose from the AOS going to the under body of the car.
Looking for help from Crawford or other forum members who can add any insight or experience. The engine bay looks dry and I didnít see any loose hoses or leaks from the hoses connected to the IAG AOS. Exit point for the oil seems to be the hose leading out to the underbody of the vehicle.
Could it be that:
1. Something (e.g. a hose) has come loose? (I couldnít find one)
2. The wrong oil was used during the oil change Ė and not the one I provided?
3. I should try a different heavy oil?
4. ???
Any help, insight is appreciated.
Thanks!
There are three possibilities;

1 Your motor is damaged and the AOS cannot handle the volume of blow by so it is coming out the vent hose.

2 Your motor is fine but the AOS cannot handle the volume of blow by so its coming out of the vent hose.

3 The oil is not draining out of the AOS.
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:49 PM   #24
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Got the V3 installed in my GR finally and everything works like it is supposed to. Now, what are some good inspections (things) to do regularly to ensure the AOS is working properly ?
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:21 AM   #25
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Location: PDX OREGON
Vehicle:
2017 STI

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinoMagic View Post
Hi Crawford -
I have a 2016 STI car with the DOM1.5 XTR, FF System, FMIC, ETS TBE, ETS CAI, 1000 injectors, fuel pump etc. and the competition series IAG AOS. This tune has been running just fine for the last ~8000 miles. Recently I went for an oil change at Christian Brothers, a local reputable mechanic shop. They do not perform any tuning work on the car and is my go to place for a basic oil change and tire rotations. This is the second time they have performed an oil change on the car. As they do not carry the Motul brand, I purchase the oil online and take it to the shop when having the oil changed.
For oil change, I use Motul 8100 5w40 and have only used this oil since the tune had been performed on the car and as it is recommended by my tuner. Oh and the blue Subaru oil filter.
Yesterday while driving (some spirited driving) I noticed light smoke coming out from under my car. No smell / light smell. This is definitely not normal so I take the car back to Christian Brothers, we have it lifted and notice that most of the underbody of the car as well as the rear bumper has signs of oil spray. More on the underbody of the car than than the bumper. It seemed that most of the underbody was covered in oil.
The oil on the underbody of the vehicle is heating up causing the smoke to come from the sides of vehicle. Easily noticeable when the vehicle is at a stop. We checked the oil level on the car and noticed that it was very low. Iíve only driven the car 200 miles since the oil change. And prior to this Iíve never had problem with blow by oil and oil has never gone low. We proceed to add more oil to get it a safe level.
Iíll be taking the car to my tuner, already have an appointment made.
Other than that I do not have any CEL or other problem. But Iíd like to understand why all of a sudden I have a lot of blow by oil coming out of the hose from the AOS going to the under body of the car.
Looking for help from Crawford or other forum members who can add any insight or experience. The engine bay looks dry and I didnít see any loose hoses or leaks from the hoses connected to the IAG AOS. Exit point for the oil seems to be the hose leading out to the underbody of the vehicle.
Could it be that:
1. Something (e.g. a hose) has come loose? (I couldnít find one)
2. The wrong oil was used during the oil change Ė and not the one I provided?
3. I should try a different heavy oil?
4. ???
Any help, insight is appreciated.
Thanks!
Are you positive the oil was not over filled at all?

Have you taken any high speed corners, sharp or long and sweeping?

I'm on my phone so can't type a lot but had a similar issue recently. 1/2 Quart came out head cover to my vta under car. Took it for a compression and leak down test and it came out under 10% spread and leak down 8% max.

I had just taken a long sweeping turn at 120 mph.... And that's the side the oil came out. It was also under pressure.
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