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Old 10-31-2018, 04:14 PM   #1
_mkr2
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Default EJ207 Reliability? Highest kilometers?

What is your opinion about EJ207 V7 & V8 reliability in terms of being abused & being babied. Whats the highest kilometers youve gone with the engine before having problems? And how many kilometers/miles before you had any headgasket failure?
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:29 PM   #2
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Change your oil and keep it stock and you'll go 300,000 km or more.
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:55 AM   #3
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Stage 2 with proper maintenance and no excessive abuse should also keep it alive long. My experience so far with ej207 motors has been good. The first motor I purchased was a ver 8, one never really know the exact miles on those imported junk yard motors but whatever it was I added 35,000 miles to before selling the car to a friend a few years ago. My friend still has the car, no idea how many miles he has done but it has been stage 2 from my time, still going 100% reliable. I now have a ver 7, again no idea of its true mileage, Iíve added 12,000 miles to it. First with. Blouch 18G XTR and now with a VF48 with supporting mods. I donít abuse my cars and like preventive maintenance. So far so good, no issues. Does require proper engine inspection and prepping before installing.
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Old 11-03-2018, 11:06 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Rodman View Post
Stage 2 with proper maintenance and no excessive abuse should also keep it alive long. My experience so far with ej207 motors has been good. The first motor I purchased was a ver 8, one never really know the exact miles on those imported junk yard motors but whatever it was I added 35,000 miles to before selling the car to a friend a few years ago. My friend still has the car, no idea how many miles he has done but it has been stage 2 from my time, still going 100% reliable. I now have a ver 7, again no idea of its true mileage, Iíve added 12,000 miles to it. First with. Blouch 18G XTR and now with a VF48 with supporting mods. I donít abuse my cars and like preventive maintenance. So far so good, no issues. Does require proper engine inspection and prepping before installing.
6 years and 50+ track days on a Ver8 at 24psi. It is using a bit of oil now but after all of the abuse this engine has taken I'm really stunned at the reliability. Totally std longblock.
Recommended.
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Old 11-04-2018, 04:59 PM   #5
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24 psi? Impressive. Race gas I assume?
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:52 PM   #6
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E85
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:02 AM   #7
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I've probably put on around 20k miles on my V9 207. Regular oil changes and it doesn't burn a drop of oil. I was told the engine has around 60k miles when I got it. It should last a good long time. My EJ205 went for 250k miles with original head gaskets and me beating the crap out of it. 2 liter engines are way more reliable. Just take care of the engine.
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Old 11-05-2018, 02:09 PM   #8
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I don't see anything less reliable about the 255 and 257 motors, given proper maintenance. Having 1000 RPM lower redline and less boost (though more compression) from the factory kinda balances it all out.
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Old 11-10-2018, 07:20 PM   #9
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Maintain it like normal and she should last a long time
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:14 PM   #10
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I think the majority of engine failures in our are mostly due to abuse, lack of proper care and adding bolt ons without the right tune.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
I don't see anything less reliable about the 255 and 257 motors, given proper maintenance. Having 1000 RPM lower redline and less boost (though more compression) from the factory kinda balances it all out.
You're entitled to an opinion, just don't confuse it, or dress it up, as fact.

https://www.torquenews.com/1084/suba...nths-discovery

Subaru just lost a huge class action suit against selling these garbage motors.

Look how many people sell their brand new built sti blocks or blocks "still in break in period or 500-1000 miles on new motor " after spending 10-20k on them . That's like buying a diamond ring, walking out of the store and heading directly.to the pawn shop, and selling the pawn shop the ring at a 35% loss.

The ej257 is purgatory . You're stuck in an endless loop of disappointment for eternity .

I purchased a one owner , old man, 05 fxt with 120k miles. Find out a few weeks later the Head gaskets are leaking. Not enough to over heat but enough to send random white puffs out the exhaust on hot days with ac running and enough for me to always find the coolant over flow empty and full of soot. I replaced it with an ej205 for chump change
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:21 PM   #12
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Got a v7 3 1/2 years ago said it was around 45,000 miles on it. Tuned 310hp and tq to wheels drivien around 15k beating the piss out of it with strict oil changes on rotella.

Still running strong
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Old 11-17-2018, 01:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo_Blyat View Post
You're entitled to an opinion, just don't confuse it, or dress it up, as fact.
Alright, let's talk about pulling the facts from these dressed-up statements:

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Originally Posted by Foo_Blyat View Post
Subaru just lost a huge class action suit against selling these garbage motors.
Settlement does not equal judgement nor does it equal a loss in court, as there is no prevailing party.

The class-action suit alleged that there was a manufacturing defect on a (relatively) small window of EJ25 blocks leaving metal shavings in the lubrication channels. The settlement covers parts/labor and an extended warranty (only 40k additional miles) for the affected motors. This means that Subaru was fairly confident that the number of affected motors was low, or this would not have been a cost-effective settlement. This also shows that Subaru was VERY confident that their motors can safely be warranted for 100k rather than the original 60k offered at sale.

Lawyers for both parties would advise that clients treat settlements like this as business decision as legal expenses of dragging this through the court system would clearly a larger expense than a few motors that can't make that extra 40k mile stretch.

Next, this lawsuit covered 2012-2017 models. The EJ255 has been around since 2006 in the USA and the EJ257 since 2004. Both were updated in 2008 but the design is sound (there is very little different between EJ20 and EJ25 block design - these motors are like Lego blocks). The lawsuit was entirely related to a manufacturing issue that alleged cleaning of the product was not completed correctly before assembly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo_Blyat View Post
The ej257 is purgatory . You're stuck in an endless loop of disappointment for eternity.
Pretty happy with mine. Getting stuck in a loop of disappointment is buying a Subaru when you expect an LS1 performance curve and twice the output at OEM reliability.

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Originally Posted by Foo_Blyat View Post
I purchased a one owner , old man, 05 fxt with 120k miles. Find out a few weeks later the Head gaskets are leaking. Not enough to over heat but enough to send random white puffs out the exhaust on hot days with ac running and enough for me to always find the coolant over flow empty and full of soot. I replaced it with an ej205 for chump change
This leads me to believe you didn't have a head gasket failure and are either making assumptions or just blowing smoke (no pun intended).

Do you think that the low pressure of the coolant system at operating temp. exceeds that of combustion pressure within the cylinder?

When a head gasket leaks, the combustion pressure forces gas into the system displacing coolant into the overflow tank. The tank itself usually overflows leading to air pockets in the system. Once enough fluid is displaced and the ECT sensor is exposed to gas rather than liquid, the temp. gauge spikes.

For this reason, a head gasket failure on a turbocharged car almost never produces white smoke in the exhaust before overheating.
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:15 AM   #14
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Same as any other EJ....keep up on oil changes, let the crankcase breathe, prevent detonation at all costs and make sure the crank swings over before you hit max cylinder pressure (pro tune).

Almost every Japanese turbo engine since the 90s will allow you to double the factory power rating and still live a long life as long as there is no detonation. Most Japanese engines are over engineered to hold double, they have used forged cranks (rods can still be a weak point) back to the Datsun days.

As long as you can control heat, have enough high quality fuel and spark it at the right time you can double down. Now I am not saying the OEM clutch will be happy at that level but engine should hold together just fine if you respect the machine and don't use boost in lower RPMs.
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:21 AM   #15
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Sorry, my monkey brain read it as a max power on a stock ej thread....I will still leave the info here.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:53 PM   #16
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No 2.5L for me.
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Old 11-20-2018, 10:12 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
I don't see anything less reliable about the 255 and 257 motors, given proper maintenance. Having 1000 RPM lower redline and less boost (though more compression) from the factory kinda balances it all out.
It's been a general rule of thumb for a long time that 500cc or less per cylinder was ideal for performance engines. 2.0's have been the staple for 4cylinders for decades. The 3S-GTE, the 4G63, the EJ20, SR20DET, etc. And that's not even getting into Honda's 2.0(and less) engines.

Look at the legendary 2Jz(500cc per cylinder) and the RB26DETT(less than 500cc per cylinder).

Look at Formula 1 engines. Insanely small displacement engines.

Surely there are lots of exceptions, but 500cc or less per cylinder was always commonplace from an engineering standpoint.

The EJ20 was around since 1989. I've been following Subaru stuff since the early/mid 90's and reliability was never any major issue until guys in the US started messing with the EJ25.Granted, there are A LOT of factors why the ej25 gets a bad rap, and I do believe most of it has to do with the user in some way or another. But, I absolutely believe that at least one of the factors is the ej25 is just a BIG 4 cylinder.

Back in the early 2000's, when the knowledge and tuning capabilities were nowhere near what they are today, the ej205 just kept on trucking, taking all the wrong parts and bad tunes we could throw at it. And they are still doing it with boat loads of miles on them today.

So while the EJ207 definitely has some great points about it, the best and most advantageous(IMHO) thing about it is that it is a 2 liter engine. Very plain and simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Rodman View Post
No 2.5L for me.
Right on!

The ej25 in my GT works fine, but I've always been a fan of the 2 liter.

Last edited by Shik; 11-20-2018 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 11-20-2018, 11:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shik View Post
It's been a general rule of thumb for a long time that 500cc or less per cylinder was ideal for performance engines. 2.0's have been the staple for 4cylinders for decades. The 3S-GTE, the 4G63, the EJ20, SR20DET, etc. And that's not even getting into Honda's 2.0(and less) engines.

Look at the legendary 2Jz(500cc per cylinder) and the RB26DETT(less than 500cc per cylinder).

Look at Formula 1 engines. Insanely small displacement engines.

Surely there are lots of exceptions, but 500cc or less per cylinder was always commonplace from an engineering standpoint.

The EJ20 was around since 1989. I've been following Subaru stuff since the early/mid 90's and reliability was never any major issue until guys in the US started messing with the EJ25.Granted, there are A LOT of factors why the ej25 gets a bad rap, and I do believe most of it has to do with the user in some way or another. But, I absolutely believe that at least one of the factors is the ej25 is just a BIG 4 cylinder.

Back in the early 2000's, when the knowledge and tuning capabilities were nowhere near what they are today, the ej205 just kept on trucking, taking all the wrong parts and bad tunes we could throw at it. And they are still doing it with boat loads of miles on them today.

So while the EJ207 definitely has some great points about it, the best and most advantageous(IMHO) thing about it is that it is a 2 liter engine. Very plain and simple.



Right on!

The ej25 in my GT works fine, but I've always been a fan of the 2 liter.
I just think people try to push them too hard, although there is a spot on the liner in the 2.5s that becomes a weak spot
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Old 11-20-2018, 06:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shik View Post
It's been a general rule of thumb for a long time that 500cc or less per cylinder was ideal for performance engines. 2.0's have been the staple for 4cylinders for decades. The 3S-GTE, the 4G63, the EJ20, SR20DET, etc. And that's not even getting into Honda's 2.0(and less) engines.
It's a trend for cheap(ish) cars, but I don't know if I'd call it a rule of thumb. These trends tend to change over time and you'll always find outliers - the UZ-series 4.3 liter V8, for example.

One thing that is true - the larger per cylinder displacement models tend to fall more into the mature driver category of marketing than the 'tuner' style cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shik View Post
...there are A LOT of factors why the ej25 gets a bad rap, and I do believe most of it has to do with the user in some way or another...
Agree - 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shik View Post
So while the EJ207 definitely has some great points about it, the best and most advantageous(IMHO) thing about it is that it is a 2 liter engine. Very plain and simple.
The EJ20 was also a ground-up design rather than an improvement to existing designs. This inherently gives it more safety margin from an engineering standpoint (especially when coupled with cost). The 6MT transmission is an even better example of this. I'm a firm believer that the Subaru 6MT is the underdog for being the best (and likely last), truly well-engineered H-pattern manual you'll see on a OEM.

The thin liner of the 2.5 vs. the 2.0 is the one mechanical difference that really makes it 'weaker'. Split case design, open or semi-open deck, and thinner walls = move movement of the cylinder in operation. Eventually, something will give.
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:02 AM   #20
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All great points mrsaturn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
It's a trend for cheap(ish) cars, but I don't know if I'd call it a rule of thumb.

One thing that is true - the larger per cylinder displacement models tend to fall more into the mature driver category of marketing than the 'tuner' style cars
.
I can agree with that. Large displacement 4's were never the norm in the performance world. Maybe that's why the "tuner" engines that I mentioned were never known for reliability issues. But even in N/A form, the ej18 and even the ej22 were basically problem free for years. The EJ25 was never as smooth or quiet and always seemed to having something associated with it since it's inception in comparison.

Obviously if power is your goal, it would be tough to argue against the 2.5. But in terms of reliability, I think there is enough info/experiences out there to argue that a smaller displacement 4 would get some votes(at least my vote ).
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Old 11-21-2018, 12:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Obviously if power is your goal, it would be tough to argue against the 2.5. But in terms of reliability, I think there is enough info/experiences out there to argue that a smaller displacement 4 would get some votes(at least my vote ).
If outright horsepower numbers were my goal and I needed to stay with the EJ 4-cylinder platform, I'd be using a closed deck EJ20G block, bored to maybe 2.2 liters with a non-AVCS head from a GC-era RA-spec motor. O-ring the block and call it a day.

The geometry lends itself to a higher redline so you hit the bigger numbers on the math alone, and you've got a solid block and a dead-nuts simple head design so there's very little to think about.

Coincidentally, the 2.0 version of this combination is the exact motor Prodrive is still running inside the FR-S GT car to this very day (and the WRC cars... and the Isle of Man car... basically everything Subaru is famous for in motorsport). The only modifications they even make to the block are some weight removal (milling on the exterior), a fire ring (copper o-ring), and a tattletale hole so they know when to replace the motor (shown in picture 3).





The heads have quite a bit more work performed, but aside from the crazy head gasket machine work, they just do some porting and weight removal there, also.




Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 11-21-2018 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 11-21-2018, 02:18 PM   #22
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man oh man is that ej20g sexy or what
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Old 11-21-2018, 02:40 PM   #23
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500ccper cylinder as a reliability standard?


The ls engine blow way past that.
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Old 11-21-2018, 08:57 PM   #24
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500ccper cylinder as a reliability standard?

The ls engine blow way past that.
I think he was referring to Japanese motors.
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Old 11-23-2018, 05:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
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500ccper cylinder as a reliability standard?


The ls engine blow way past that.
As I said, of course you can find engines that don't follow that rule, but just google "optimal cc per cylinder" and you will have plenty of reading material.

FWIW, there are plenty of ej205's in the US well over 200,000 miles on their stock long blocks(including stock head gaskets). I have no experience with LS engines but if there are lots of them over 200k driving around still basically stock, kudos to Chevy.

Regardless, strictly talking about Subaru engines, I'm sticking with an ej20 for long term fun and reliability.

Mrsaturn, great pics! I believe the Subaru Rally Team USA cars used the same starting point as well possibly for their engines, or at least the GRC cars.
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