New Study Finds 46% Of EV Buyers In The US Want To Go Back To ICE

[AVANTI R5]

New Study Finds 46% Of EV Buyers In The US Want To Go Back To ICE

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/06/ne...o-back-to-ice/

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[Scooby-Doode]

Yep... Watch the littler of EV's hit the used car market, which I am sure has already started. Too bad Tesla spies on everything you do in their car, likely even know when you pass wind. bahahaha

[SCRAPPYDO]

I am sure this will not be controversial topic at all.

[Stanley]

I wonder how that breaks down by both brand and geography.
I have no issue with finding charging, but that is because of where I live and that I can use the Tesla charging infrastructure.
Brother in law just bought a Ford Lightning, and ordered (and paid for) the adapter so that he can use Tesla chargers. It's supposed to arrive around Halloween...

[Integra96]

New Study Finds 46% of Model T Buyers in the US Want To Go Back to Horses

[Pre]

54% sticking with EV. I know I am for DD only, nothing else. I still maintain they are great providing it's a Leaf/Bolt with the associated lower cost and it's used as a commuter vehicle/DD. I look at the prices of many EV and gas vehicles which people pay 50k-100k and just laugh.

Looking forward to replacing my 10 year old EV while hearing all the current debates about X, Y, Z, etc. "The infrastructure isn't ready", well got damn, been running solar panels and DD EV for a decade and looking forward to replacing my car with a newer one with 215 mile range. Compared to my 84 mile range (when new), nearly triple the range sounds like paradise. One purchase away from being out of this car market for a good 10+ years. Looking forward to it, and skipping all these ever increasing MSRP's. That way I can buy my SXS, ATV, and MX bike for my rural land. All three of those things, combined, with some mild mods on each is $50k. People pay more than that for just one DD vehicle. LMAO!

[samagon]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

I am sure this will not be controversial topic at all.

why would it be?

people who thought they'd have an easier time dealing with an EV with the current limitations have realized it's not actually that easy to make an EV work without adjusting how they live to accommodate.

add to it that the actual cost of owning a vehicle is not just how much it costs for the fuel, or that you don't have to get an oil change. many people are realizing that tires wear more quickly, insurance costs more, and that sweet, sweet government tax break they got on the purchase price lives with the value of the car when it is time to trade it in.

what this will do is put pressure on the used car market for the price of used EVs to get even lower, which in turn will force manufacturers to figure out how they can be even less expensive to buy. there will be a point when an EV price is low enough that the inconvenience of driving one day to day will be overcome with a low enough cost of ownership that people will be willing to buy one.

controversial is when cities, states, and countries come in to mandate adoption.

[samagon]

Originally Posted by Integra96

New Study Finds 46% of Model T Buyers in the US Want To Go Back to Horses

in order for a new technology to be adopted it has to be better than the one it is replacing.

in the case of cars vs horses, once there were enough gas stations, roads were improved, and people had access to mechanics to fix the things, cars were vastly superior to horses in every way.

look at every technology that replaced an existing tech, there was always something that made it absolutely better.

for EVs, if you have access to a place to charge overnight, and you aren't going to drive it farther in a day than the max range, it is a superior option, but for a lot of people that's just not true.

at some point roads sucked too much for cars, so horses were still a thing, and maybe that's where we are with EVs, just waiting for the tech to push them to be more convenient for most people.

but yeah, this isn't a horses vs cars debate, it's not a flip phone vs smart phone, it's not even a typewriter vs computer.

for those of you who it is better for, great! I'm happy for you, rock that thing. it's not for me yet, and apparently, 56% of people thought it could work, but it didn't, no harm.

[SCRAPPYDO]

samagon, you literally said everything I was going to say. Like verbatim.. Do no worry too much over Integra96. He is generally full of sarcasm and vinegar. Your responses are logical and rational. Car vs Horse comparison has been dispelled dozens of times here. Yet EV zealots cling to it. All cars regardless of propulsion have pros/cons. Depending on your personal biases, emotional or financial, those pros/cons shift.

It is that simple. As usual, the EV vs ICE debate is an AND problem, not an OR problem. There is room for both, and their should be both free of government intervention. Like most problems or debates, the answer is an AND problem, not OR problem.

[dwf137]

EV's are great regional commuter cars. Anyone who bought an EV thinking it was going to be a be-all, do-all solution was just setting themselves, and EV, up for failure.

Originally Posted by Pre

54% sticking with EV. I know I am for DD only, nothing else. I still maintain they are great providing it's a Leaf/Bolt with the associated lower cost and it's used as a commuter vehicle/DD. I look at the prices of many EV and gas vehicles which people pay 50k-100k and just laugh.

I dunno man, we got a killer lease deal on our Ioniq and I don't know that I'll go back to something like a leaf/bolt. Having awd and added power makes for a more enjoyable drive, particularly in inclement weather, which obviously is a large part of the year here. Never thought I'd lease a vehicle, but with the way EV pricing is going, and the outrageous deal they gave us, we decided to give it a shot. It gets driven literally every day, so while it's "just a DD", we spend a good portion of our day in it, so having that be a nicer space is worth it.

[SCRAPPYDO]

dwf137 makes the point to end all points right there!

Almost nothing else needs to be said. Buy what you want. Get educated on your decision, learn the total cost including resale, insurance, maintenance, etc. Buy the vehicle that suits the most of your needs at a price you can afford. Go into it with eyes wide open and enjoy the drive.

Choice is good. That has always been the basis for all my debates on most things. Options are good to have.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by samagon

look at every technology that replaced an existing tech, there was always something that made it absolutely better.

Generally true, but I'm going to have to say that Microsoft Word 4.0 (circa 1990) was a FAR superior word processing program than the current version of Word.

[SCRAPPYDO]

don't go too far back into Word, or Clippy will come back!

[Pre]

Originally Posted by dwf137

I dunno man, we got a killer lease deal on our Ioniq and I don't know that I'll go back to something like a leaf/bolt. Having awd and added power makes for a more enjoyable drive, particularly in inclement weather, which obviously is a large part of the year here. Never thought I'd lease a vehicle, but with the way EV pricing is going, and the outrageous deal they gave us, we decided to give it a shot. It gets driven literally every day, so while it's "just a DD", we spend a good portion of our day in it, so having that be a nicer space is worth it.

Well how do you think I ended up dailying the thing for the past 10+ years? Killer lease deal originally like you with that thing. Then a killer buy off lease. All in, every cent, $19,700. That's down payment on the lease, lease payments, purchase, finance costs, loan costs, and the 7 year factory extended warranty I bought for it to make it 10 years of factory b2b warranty. It rails corners, hard, due to low COG and only weighing 3200 lbs. Has heated leather seats, heated steering wheel, a banging Bose system, which is surprising because 9/10 times, premium audio, especially Japanese vehicles, suck. Of all the Japanese vehicles I've owned since 1992, this is the only audio system I didn't gut. In 10+ years, tires, in cabin air filters, brake system flush, and a Freon recharge. That's it. Maintenance virtually nothing. Been the best vehicle, at least for DD purposes, in my life. And insurance is cheap on it, as well as the current one. And insurance is at the top of my list on anything. Bank on insurance then F that.

I can get a 6 month old MY2023, for $20.9k, with 6k on the ODO and CPO. I've got two AWD vehicles for inclement weather in the fleet. Leaf, nobody pays it any mind. Not other motorists, not the cops, in fact people around here look down on it, which is just fine by me. Oh and the newer one has damn near triple the range of mine and Carplay. Commuting to work, parking at the gym, Costco for groceries, errand/supply runs, it's money. If my salary tripled tomorrow I'd still be driving the same things I have already. If EV's weren't a thing or I didn't have panels on the house my daily would be a Fit, Rolla Hatch with a manual, or the equivalent. Not putting any money into a DD, as it's used for boring, mundane driving only, that wouldn't be fun to me even if it was a GT3 manual. It's got enough torque and power in general to punch around all the idiots around here looking down at their pacifier while driving. Luxury driving, performance driving, road trips, I've got other stuff for that. Running a cheap DD over these past 10 years, well it's enabled me to expand and increase my fleet because I've not done the buy/trade/sell bs. And this next Leaf I acquire will enable me to get the 3 hipo off-road vehicles I have picked out at the powersports store for my rural land in the mountains and stay out of this expensive @$$ car market for 10+ more years. God willing I'll be out of city/burb life in the next 2-3 years and y'all can have it. I love driving a cheap DD, it frees up cash for high performance gas machinery. Like Scraps said above, everyone should do what they like. Nissan made an AWD Leaf and journalists covered it. I'd take that if it were available but they never brought it to market and if/when, it'll be a CUV something.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

don't go too far back into Word, or Clippy will come back!

If Clippy comes back, will my hair also come back?

[Brahmzy]

Clippy IS back, but he's a whole lot more expensive this time, and even comes with his own key on new keyboards.

[WRXterminate]

"More than 30,000 participants answered approximately 200 questions for McKinsey’s biennial study. To be more accurate, the survey was handed out to 15 countries, representing more than 80 percent of the global sales volume."

So are they saying that maybe 2000 people in the US were surveyed and this is representative of "46% Of EV Buyers In The US"?

There are more Chevy Bolts (that catch fire) than this.
There are more Porsche Taycans (that catch fire) than this.
There are more Toyota BZ4Xes (whose wheels fall off) than this.
There are even more Hummer EVs than this.

Any one of these might make you want to go back to ICE.
I know I would. :-)

[hi5.0]

IMO, as others have pointed to, it's mainly due to the availability of charging stations and reliable ease of use (or widespread lack thereof) that makes EV ownership more difficult to contend with given the driving distances in the US.
Then again, saw a Honda E of all things, in Malaysia heading in the direction of Singapore on a long stretch of highway while on a bus to KL from Singapore - not sure how they "make it work" given the E's relatively short range.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by WRXterminate

So are they saying that maybe 2000 people in the US were surveyed and this is representative of "46% Of EV Buyers In The US"?

"studies" like this are usually terrible representations of the general public. Easy to design a survey to reveal whatever they want to prove. It's all about who paid for the study - guessing it's not an EV manufacturer...

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by WRXterminate

"More than 30,000 participants answered approximately 200 questions for McKinsey’s biennial study. To be more accurate, the survey was handed out to 15 countries, representing more than 80 percent of the global sales volume."

So are they saying that maybe 2000 people in the US were surveyed and this is representative of "46% Of EV Buyers In The US"?

There are more Chevy Bolts (that catch fire) than this.
There are more Porsche Taycans (that catch fire) than this.
There are more Toyota BZ4Xes (whose wheels fall off) than this.
There are even more Hummer EVs than this.

Any one of these might make you want to go back to ICE.
I know I would. :-)

Do you really think that they asked the same amount of people in a country with 340 million as they do with a country of 12 million?

No, YOU are saying 2000 people in the US were surveyed. Not 'they'.

Sometimes it is fine to simplify. But odds are over half of the respondents were from the US. They just listed the other countries to make it sound more 'international'. All of the issues reported sound particularly poignant to the US mostly.

while my assertation is an assumption, I wager it is closer to the truth than to assume an even split between 15 countries.

Feel free to disagree.

[Snow Drift]

New Study Finds 54% Of EV Buyers In The US Don't Want To Go Back To ICE

[SCRAPPYDO]

yup, so out of those 30000 surveyed. 54% of those did not want another.

they would need to specify how many of those 30000 were from the US and how many were from the 15 other countries. I would wager a solid quarter than almost half are from the US. From that they extrapolated the click bait title

[WRXterminate]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

Do you really think that they asked the same amount of people in a country with 340 million as they do with a country of 12 million?

No, YOU are saying 2000 people in the US were surveyed. Not 'they'.

Sometimes it is fine to simplify. But odds are over half of the respondents were from the US. They just listed the other countries to make it sound more 'international'. All of the issues reported sound particularly poignant to the US mostly.

while my assertation is an assumption, I wager it is closer to the truth than to assume an even split between 15 countries.

Feel free to disagree.

Europe is over 2x the number of EV sales as the US, and China is 2x Europe...
So does that mean that the "80% of global sales volume" is composed of mostly Europe and China? Unless you purchase McKinsey’s biennial study and know what the breakdown is, you can pretty much conclude nothing from it, or anything you want. Fun for the internet, but not actual information.

However, John Oliver has a beef with "McKinsey & Co", apparently.

- YouTube

- YouTube

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by WRXterminate

"More than 30,000 participants answered approximately 200 questions for McKinsey's biennial study. To be more accurate, the survey was handed out to 15 countries, representing more than 80 percent of the global sales volume."

So are they saying that maybe 2000 people in the US were surveyed and this is representative of "46% Of EV Buyers In The US"?

There are more Chevy Bolts (that catch fire) than this.
There are more Porsche Taycans (that catch fire) than this.
There are more Toyota BZ4Xes (whose wheels fall off) than this.
There are even more Hummer EVs than this.

Any one of these might make you want to go back to ICE.
I know I would. :-)

26 years as a firefighter and have yet to respond to an EV fire. Don't even know if any of my brother/sisters have yet either. Or even a Hybrid fire. We have certainly trained for it. PLENTY of accidents involving them. Without a single fire from them. Just had a serious accident yesterday involving a Mach E. Yes, they happen; but, I have lost count 10 times over how many ICE fires I've responded to. Shoot. One just ther other day. Nice day that one being the only call of the day. Plenty of car fires that involved a structure as well. People can freak out over the internet screaming over "one" EV fire(yes, I know it's more than one) or autonomous accidents. It's quite funny. Proportionally much smaller. But, hey. Need a reason not to get one? Have at it.



And not a single wheel actually came off a BZ4X/Solterra.

[Integra96]

EV fires are just more bait for idiots. They are much less likely to catch on fire than ICE. Look it up, several analyses have been conducted.

Car vs. horse analogy holds up well because EVs, a superior technology, are inevitably taking over ICE. Sorry, that's just how it is. That doesn't mean EVs are 100% perfect for 100% of consumers yet, but it's happening quickly. So relax and enjoy the benefits.