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Old 10-05-2009, 12:24 AM   #1
CatfaceType-R
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Default Anyone running a Twinscroll turbo on a non divided manifold? helper valve tested!

If you are, what's your setup? and you might want to beg your local suby shop to fab up something like this!

This is for a twinscroll turbo with a non divided manifold


here's why I think you would be interested in this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Performance View Post
Here is a dyno of our new valve for twin scroll turbos that will divert all exhaust to one scroll during spool up and then open to allow both to run normally.....






Seriously..... who else innovates like we do??? Seriously?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprafied View Post
Guys,

This device does work. I have a friend who has been working on for over a year on his car. Its has shown a GT42-74mm to be at full spool by 3700 RPM.

Larry,

IIRC, I thought I mentioned something to you about this or maybe Chris awhile ago.

DP

here's the thread if you are interested http://www.supraforums.com/forum/new...eply&p=5843044
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:30 AM   #2
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Last edited by juanmedina; 10-05-2009 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:28 AM   #3
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Holy%*^* where have these been? I might go twinscroll this winter lol...More fabbing...lol

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Old 10-05-2009, 02:26 AM   #4
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i have seen this, but has anyone actually used it on a subaru i understand the concept and have seen it around for a few years now, and 500 rpms faster to 600 is nice and more under the graph, but i would like to see it on a subaru
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:36 AM   #5
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why would someone run a twinscroll housing on a single scroll header?

wouldnt it be cheaper and easier (read less moving parts and possible points of failure) to just switch the turbine housing?

or just cut out the divider on the turbine?

to me this really isnt about single vs twin scroll.....but more about speeding up the exhaust gases at low rpm.

i'd like to see one of these on a single scroll turbine. Obviously it would never be shut, but partially closing it at low rpm should have this same effect, right?

Last edited by Phatron; 10-05-2009 at 02:53 AM.
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Old 10-05-2009, 03:54 AM   #6
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Humm Idk sounds like they tried to do something like this but further away from the turbo might not have as much of an effect. but who know's.

Check this out. Porsche 911 turbo VGT turbo borg warner makes it so you know they know what there doin with turbo's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variabl...y_turbocharger
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:02 AM   #7
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well i figure the way it works with the twins scroll with single scroll up pipe because it forces the gasses throught the one side which will make it go through only half of the twinscroll exhaust housing, my thought is that it might actually cause more turbulance in the up pipe and exhaust housing
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:05 AM   #8
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It could happen in the same way with a true twinscroll manifold, but the valve could only close half of each port, halving the opening for the gases, speeding the exhaust flow.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
why would someone run a twinscroll housing on a single scroll header?

wouldnt it be cheaper and easier (read less moving parts and possible points of failure) to just switch the turbine housing?

or just cut out the divider on the turbine?

to me this really isnt about single vs twin scroll.....but more about speeding up the exhaust gases at low rpm.

i'd like to see one of these on a single scroll turbine. Obviously it would never be shut, but partially closing it at low rpm should have this same effect, right?
You're misunderstanding the point of this thing. It basically turns a twin-scroll turbo into a variable-geometry single-scroll turbo. Variable geometry as in "you have two ARs to choose from."

With the valve open, you get something roughlyequivalent to a single-scroll turbo with the AR equal to the sum of the ARs of the two scrolls. Nothing special. But, with the valve closed, you get something roughly equivalent to a single-scroll turbo with the AR equal to just the AR of one of the two scrolls.

Sounds great on paper, I'm really curious how well it works in practice. The figures from the Supra site aren't directly applicable to Subarus but they are interesting. "GT42-74mm to be at full spool by 3700 RPM" on a 2JZ I guess, but still...



Last edited by NSFW; 10-05-2009 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
You're misunderstanding the point of this thing. It basically turns a twin-scroll turbo into a variable-geometry single-scroll turbo. Variable geometry as in "you have two ARs to choose from."
thats why i said i want to see it on a single scroll turbine.

cause i do understand that's what's happening and it should have the same effect......

seems like you read the first 3 lines of my post, but not the last 2. The first 3 were basically "why would anyone end up with that setup" and the last 2 were "why dont they make it for single scroll turbines because speeding up the exhaust gases on a single scroll will have the same effect"

its just like putting ur thumb over the end of a hose. i dont think it has anything to do with single vs twin scroll. it should work the same on both.

Last edited by Phatron; 10-05-2009 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:07 PM   #11
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hrmmm

this could lead to great things
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:13 PM   #12
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someone do this! seen this for a while now always wanted to see it on a subaru, being that lag is our enemy.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:33 PM   #13
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Just fab a header system and put two td04's down front with a sump pan. Bang, no more lag. That is my project number two, which should commence over the next couple years.

The concept of this valve is interesting, so hurry up and do the testing on your Subaru so the rest of us can see how it goes.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:08 PM   #14
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I was thinking today for awhile about this thing .... What would be more cost effective jdm. Twinscroll manifold or this puppy... Plus with the jdm manifold less chances for things to go wrong...
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:17 PM   #15
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these valve setups seem like their favorite thing....they make an exhaust cutout too that uses it.

http://www.spracingonline.com/store/...ctivated_/3673

and damn, this things $500

http://www.spracingonline.com/store/...ool_Valve/3659
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:21 PM   #16
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Just using a twinscroll turbo on a single manifold would by theroy speed exhaust gasses up to some extent.. as air gets forced through smaller aperatures its velocity increases right? Twinscroll designed hotsides have a nice divider plate in them that can be modified for efficient splitting.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:22 PM   #17
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btw wheres the boost charts?
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:30 PM   #18
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Without boost applied the valve is closed, correct?

So how did they dyno the car 4 minutes apart with "no valve" and "valve operating"?

If they just unhooked the line from it, then the valve would be closed the entire run, right?
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
thats why i said i want to see it on a single scroll turbine.

cause i do understand that's what's happening and it should have the same effect......

seems like you read the first 3 lines of my post, but not the last 2. The first 3 were basically "why would anyone end up with that setup" and the last 2 were "why dont they make it for single scroll turbines because speeding up the exhaust gases on a single scroll will have the same effect"

its just like putting ur thumb over the end of a hose. i dont think it has anything to do with single vs twin scroll. it should work the same on both.
I think for this to actually work It would have best results on a twin scroll since it's actually divided like a true VGT setup.

But yet it's not.. Because a true VGT setup is done with the turbine wheel itself.

Last edited by spoolinsti05; 10-05-2009 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
thats why i said i want to see it on a single scroll turbine.

cause i do understand that's what's happening and it should have the same effect......

seems like you read the first 3 lines of my post, but not the last 2. The first 3 were basically "why would anyone end up with that setup" and the last 2 were "why dont they make it for single scroll turbines because speeding up the exhaust gases on a single scroll will have the same effect"

its just like putting ur thumb over the end of a hose. i dont think it has anything to do with single vs twin scroll. it should work the same on both.

I don't really think it would have the same effect at all because on a single scroll turbo you are not changing the effective turbine A/R.

Sure exhaust gasses will speed up to go through on side of the twin scroll valve but will then slow back down to its original speed(actually slower) right after before it even gets to the nozzle area. Its conservation of energy and has to happen.

On a twin scroll setup you have two equal nozzles that should get half total exhaust flow on a single scroll header. With this valve you're forcing on scroll to take all the exhaust flow and like it. Instead of full exhaust flow going through a 1.06 A/R housing it like going through a .53 A/R housing.
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
Without boost applied the valve is closed, correct?

So how did they dyno the car 4 minutes apart with "no valve" and "valve operating"?

If they just unhooked the line from it, then the valve would be closed the entire run, right?
They are controlling the valve with a AEM or ProEFI through a solenoid.For no valve they would apply constant pressure and keep it open, after words they set the solenoid to function the valve like it normally would.

Junior
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:47 PM   #22
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ah. i see.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:02 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUILTSTI View Post
hrmmm

this could lead to great things
Quote:
Originally Posted by WREX88 View Post
someone do this! seen this for a while now always wanted to see it on a subaru, being that lag is our enemy.

my thoughts exactly chaps


ron-this DOES work and works very well, do some more research and let me know what you think.



JR-Do it up, I know you have a customer somewhere with a non split manifold and a twinscroll turbo


I also made this thread to let people remember the fact that you DO NOT need to run a twinscroll exhaust manifold to run a twinscroll turbo


This valve that SP has come up with(maybe not invented, but developed) will allow people to run huge turbo's and mitigate lag in a huge way!


Cheers guys, I want all subies to go faster; this is why I am doing a lot of research on different platforms and conveying anything that can/will help the subi family.

Since I only have a stock BMW K1200RS and it's not getting modded, it's time to save and do research

Where's engineer STiMIkey on this ?
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:11 PM   #24
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i have a t4 twin scroll housing (.85a/r), if anyone wants to purchase to do testing


this valve sounds good in theory....subscribed!!
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:42 PM   #25
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interesting concept, i'd like to see some tuner data on the effects of possible increase in backpressure prior to the valve opening. The valve would have to be at a lower spring rate than the EWG spring when signaled off the same manifold boost source or a separate solenoid inbetween.
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