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Old 08-02-2019, 04:30 PM   #26
JustyWRC
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You can have the marketing department make up whatever term they want. Super triple X-mode. If you can’t transfer power you can’t transfer power.

Why market an outdoorsy adventure vehicle that needs a technique to get over a curb?

Peace,

Greg

Oh oh oh. Someone that hasn't experienced X-mode. As Chano says. Watch the video. I was sold the very first trip up the ramp during training when we first got X-Mode. I don't care what they call it. Is it "marketing" if it works? I don't know if it's something that should just be in the programming all the time or what that entails. All I know is it WORKS.
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Old 08-03-2019, 07:37 AM   #27
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With the whole curb thing, as others have said, off-road is where the flaw shows. Also, in super deep snow, I got the XT stuck, due to what I believe is the same problem.
I was unable to properly rock the vehicle because the damn thing kept pulling power and trying to outthink me in that situation. I tried X-mode, nannies disabled etc. A traditional auto tranny or MT would’ve gotten the vehicle unstuck in a heartbeat.
I’ve dealt with vehicles + snow my whole life and was pretty disappointed my new Subaru was a worthless pile in the deep stuff and had to be dug out due to an electronic programming / transmission design flaw.
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Old 08-03-2019, 12:21 PM   #28
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Definitely check out that video I posted above then. You'll probably be impressed by the other X-Mode.
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Old 08-03-2019, 01:10 PM   #29
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The dual function X Mode is apparently only offered on the Onyx Edition. WTF.
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Old 08-03-2019, 02:02 PM   #30
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But Onyx XT isn't priced too badly.
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Old 08-03-2019, 02:08 PM   #31
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Right. You pay more for the higher two trims and get less.
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Old 08-03-2019, 04:47 PM   #32
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People who get the Limited are less likely to need dual X-Mode compared to Onyx XT owners who have the special water repellent seats. It's like trying to get the Performance Package in a Limited WRX. They're basically two different uses, so no way to combine them unless you're willing to spend gobs of money. Americans are too cheap.
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Old 08-03-2019, 05:28 PM   #33
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What are you talking? People who want nice leather and a less gimmicky trim option wonít use the multi mode traction options?
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:33 PM   #34
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What are you talking? People who want nice leather and a less gimmicky trim option wonít use the multi mode traction options?

Pretty much spot on. The Onyx Edition will be marketed to those truly outdoorsy/venturing type. That's why it gets all the goodies.


I HATE that the Forester Sport gets the LED light in the rear gate yet a Touring doesn't...

What is it to put it in something much more expensive? Or make it an option(like they do with lots of stuff in Japan)....
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:19 AM   #35
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While we're at it, why can't all of the Impreza and Crosstrek come with the LED headlights? Up the price a tiny bit, but also get better reviews for having cleaner, safer, sexier headlights. Winning all around.

If you look at long-term reviews for the Impreza, the headlights are noted as being crappy. I swapped my bulbs to LEDs because the stock output sucks.
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Old 08-04-2019, 10:07 AM   #36
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Oh oh oh. Someone that hasn't experienced X-mode. As Chano says. Watch the video. I was sold the very first trip up the ramp during training when we first got X-Mode. I don't care what they call it. Is it "marketing" if it works? I don't know if it's something that should just be in the programming all the time or what that entails. All I know is it WORKS.
Why were you sold? because all you had to do is press the gas and steer? Didn't have to modulate the gas or brake pedal? No thinking involved? Don't get me wrong, all the programming that can be done today to make car handle better is amazing. I have been in enough soft-roading trips where working the gas and brake worked great. Sometimes you need to spin the tires.

But, there is a certain point where we can't just keep deskilling life.

SOA has a commercial with a young girl driving a Forester, phone rings so she looks down and the car has to stop for her. Who taught her to drive and why are we saying that's OK?

Peace,

Greg
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:08 PM   #37
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SOA has a commercial with a young girl driving a Forester, phone rings so she looks down and the car has to stop for her. Who taught her to drive and why are we saying that's OK?
It's not OK at all. But also nowhere near as bad as the new BMW commercial which shows off all the driver assists: lane keep, parallel parking assist, having it back into the parking spot for you.

Kind of ironic that a company who's slogan is "The Ultimate Driving Machine" has a commercial out there which shows literally ZERO actual driving. But hey, that's what lazy Americans want these days apparently.
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Old 08-04-2019, 11:33 PM   #38
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Why were you sold? because all you had to do is press the gas and steer? Didn't have to modulate the gas or brake pedal? No thinking involved? Don't get me wrong, all the programming that can be done today to make car handle better is amazing. I have been in enough soft-roading trips where working the gas and brake worked great. Sometimes you need to spin the tires.

But, there is a certain point where we can't just keep deskilling life.

SOA has a commercial with a young girl driving a Forester, phone rings so she looks down and the car has to stop for her. Who taught her to drive and why are we saying that's OK?

Peace,

Greg

That was my first thought about that commercial as well. Though probably the most realistic, I would have chosen something else as an example. Like looking out the window at the wildlife in the Forest they decided to go venture to or something.

As for X-Mode, you really need to experience it. What sold me on it? Remember my experience with Subarus. I'm very familiar with how their 4WD/AWD systems act. I don't care how good a driver someone is, they are not doing what X-Mode can in the manner it does it. From the first time I saw the JDM training video, to having experienced it in training myself(the following video is the training we initially got), to the times I've played with it, to the more recent training(just back in June), it makes things that much better/easier. You don't want gadgets? I can't say anything to that; but, X-Mode is not "marketing". It works.


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Old 08-05-2019, 09:47 AM   #39
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I personally just think it's a bit disappointing that they went backwards in capability compared to their older models from a mechanical standpoint. Sure the computer can replicate everything and more compared to the older models, but that still is dependent on sensors determining things.

Deep snow performance is definitely a lot better with my "ancient" Outback with its limited slip and VTD compared to my mom's 2016 Crosstrek. Both with similar all season tires equipped.
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:20 AM   #40
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Unfortunately people want more fuel-effecient vehicles and Subaru couldn't leave everything to just be raw mechanical parts. That's a lot of wasted energy. The computer helps to make it all run efficiently for 99.9% of typical driver use. The drawback is the 0.01% who need the raw mechanical parts. That's where an STI wagon would come in very handy.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:28 PM   #41
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People who get the Limited are less likely to need dual X-Mode compared to Onyx XT owners who have the special water repellent seats. It's like trying to get the Performance Package in a Limited WRX. They're basically two different uses, so no way to combine them unless you're willing to spend gobs of money. Americans are too cheap.
It's not Americans are cheap, it's manufacturer's marketing team that believes Americans will only buy things in certain configurations and simplifies costs for them. Even then, it's not consistent. As you mentioned, the WRX performance package is a perfect example. Mazda goes in a different direction by offering the 3 with an MT only in FWD, hatchback with their highest premium package. VW Alltrack offers the sport seats only in the highest trim. VW Jetta GLI doesn't offer sport seats while the GTI does. And similar to the Outback, you can't get leather in the off-road oriented 4Runner TRD models either.
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Old 08-05-2019, 04:18 PM   #42
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Golf R no moonfroof GTI and S3 and GLI moonfroofss. Also can't get a third row in those 4Runners.
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:02 AM   #43
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Unfortunately people want more fuel-effecient vehicles and Subaru couldn't leave everything to just be raw mechanical parts. That's a lot of wasted energy. The computer helps to make it all run efficiently for 99.9% of typical driver use. The drawback is the 0.01% who need the raw mechanical parts.
Itís just mainstreaming in general. Itís been a slow or steady march for the past 10 years.
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:30 PM   #44
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Yes and no. FHI/Subaru put all their eggs in the CVT basket. That was the answer to the mpg problem. Now they have spent years trying to make it work like their old mechanical systems. don't get me wrong, they have done a very good job with it. It will never be as capable, again 99% you really don't need what the old systems were capable of.

I have seen that Forester vid., not saying that they have done some impressive programming. But, it sounds like if I put a brick in front on one of those wheels all bets are off, especially a front wheel. I haven't owned a Subaru that wouldn't make it up that ramp. I would have to work the throttle and or clutch but, it would do it. It was a shame when Subaru's stopped being able to make it up.

In that OB XT vid 15 min in when he is trying to go up a hill and take a sharp left. He gets stuck and it looks like only one front wheel is spinning. Anyone know if a rear was spinning?

Peace,

Greg
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:29 PM   #45
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Yes and no. FHI/Subaru put all their eggs in the CVT basket. That was the answer to the mpg problem. Now they have spent years trying to make it work like their old mechanical systems. don't get me wrong, they have done a very good job with it. It will never be as capable, again 99% you really don't need what the old systems were capable of.

I have seen that Forester vid., not saying that they have done some impressive programming. But, it sounds like if I put a brick in front on one of those wheels all bets are off, especially a front wheel. I haven't owned a Subaru that wouldn't make it up that ramp. I would have to work the throttle and or clutch but, it would do it. It was a shame when Subaru's stopped being able to make it up.

In that OB XT vid 15 min in when he is trying to go up a hill and take a sharp left. He gets stuck and it looks like only one front wheel is spinning. Anyone know if a rear was spinning?

Peace,

Greg


Having driven Subarus in the family going back to the lever actuated 4WD to owning nothing but Subarus back to the vacuum actuated push button 4WDs(on 2 different continents) to early AWDs and the STIs VTD system, AND having done this test, I'd beg to differ. Would be a great day of fun if we could test it though.
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:26 AM   #46
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If your drive-train can rotate three wheels you will make it over.

It would be interesting to see older Subarus on that ramp.

Peace,

Greg
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