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Old 08-13-2019, 12:20 PM   #176
Jersey Man10
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Yeah but Rs are ghey.
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:19 PM   #177
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Takes one to know one?
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:26 PM   #178
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Although the MK7 R is now discontinued, the MK7 GTI will be around for one more year as they are built in the Puebla plant in Mexico as opposed to the Wolfsburg plant for the R, which as previously mentioned is moving to MK8 production. We'll see the GTI and R back in the US as competition for the WRX/STI in a few years (U.S. always gets the models delayed compared to Europe)
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Old 08-13-2019, 04:35 PM   #179
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Any information on when the 20s will be available to order? Wanted to wait for the new model, but can't hold out for a car so need to go with a 2020.
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Old 08-13-2019, 05:20 PM   #180
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So 2 questions in my mind are:

1) is the 2021/22 sti going to be the first car to come before the Impreza in the next gen of both cars? Given the huge delay, I can't see how the next gen will be a 2017 tarted up Impreza. There was a 3 year lag between 2012 impreza and 2015 WRX but now there could be a 5 year lag?

2) the new sti will be out around the same time as the new Impreza but in thought they wanted to differentiate them with time lags. Will they discontinue the Impreza?

Of course they could always give us a tarted up 2017 Impreza with new engine but I'll be out if they pull that.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:29 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NZrex View Post
So 2 questions in my mind are:

1) is the 2021/22 sti going to be the first car to come before the Impreza in the next gen of both cars? Given the huge delay, I can't see how the next gen will be a 2017 tarted up Impreza. There was a 3 year lag between 2012 impreza and 2015 WRX but now there could be a 5 year lag?

2) the new sti will be out around the same time as the new Impreza but in thought they wanted to differentiate them with time lags. Will they discontinue the Impreza?

Of course they could always give us a tarted up 2017 Impreza with new engine but I'll be out if they pull that.

1) Looks like the development of the WRX/STI might have gone on their own schedule as what I've heard sounds like it may be an extended time like the current one at 7 years and the next one about the same.

2) I don't think the differentiation was about release dates.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:36 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by NZrex View Post
So 2 questions in my mind are:

1) is the 2021/22 sti going to be the first car to come before the Impreza in the next gen of both cars? Given the huge delay, I can't see how the next gen will be a 2017 tarted up Impreza. There was a 3 year lag between 2012 impreza and 2015 WRX but now there could be a 5 year lag?

2) the new sti will be out around the same time as the new Impreza but in thought they wanted to differentiate them with time lags. Will they discontinue the Impreza?

Of course they could always give us a tarted up 2017 Impreza with new engine but I'll be out if they pull that.
we may have to wait for the tokyo motor show to shed some light on the new wrx or sti might be. In the meantime, we have a sedan with the 2.4 dit engine to experiment with before the big boys arrive. we can test what aftermarket parts and tune would suffice the engine before we get the more powerful variant
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:05 PM   #183
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2) the new sti will be out around the same time as the new Impreza but in thought they wanted to differentiate them with time lags. Will they discontinue the Impreza?
Wouldnít be surprised at all to see the Impreza go away, all things considered. Look at what happened to just about every other brandsí cars.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:28 PM   #184
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Wouldnít be surprised at all to see the Impreza go away, all things considered. Look at what happened to just about every other brandsí cars.
Sure, but the Crosstrek isn't going away, and is basically just an Impreza trim.

We all know the wrx and sti will share it's bones with the Impreza chassis. But what interior will it get? A 5 year old impreza interior? I sure hope not.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:02 AM   #185
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Legacy wagon went away and the more popular Outback was basically just a trim. Subaru is ruthless and Subaru support staff are toothless.
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:06 AM   #186
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1) Looks like the development of the WRX/STI might have gone on their own schedule as what I've heard sounds like it may be an extended time like the current one at 7 years and the next one about the same.

2) I don't think the differentiation was about release dates.
So next gen rex based on next gen Impreza and not 2017 impreza?

My miscom there. I meant they said for 2015 that both Impreza and wrx on different timelines but thru deliberately will stagger release dates. Now they due same time like within a year. Maybe the Impreza is gone or there will be bigger differences/separation this time around.

Of note maybe is also that VW aren't going to sell standard boring mk8 golf, only the likely boring looking gti and r.....
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:09 AM   #187
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Sure, but the Crosstrek isn't going away, and is basically just an Impreza trim.

We all know the wrx and sti will share it's bones with the Impreza chassis. But what interior will it get? A 5 year old impreza interior? I sure hope not.
Yeah if 2017 impreza cabin I'm out. In 2019 my 2015 rex has an interior and exterior based on an Impreza released in 2011. It's now ancient inside and out. At least it's still a great drive.

The next gen feels so far away. And to bad the golf r is the most boring looking performance car in the world....
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:55 AM   #188
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My Ď19 Impreza Limitedís interior is far better than my Ď16 WRXís, and really better than any other Subarus Iíve owned... except possibly my Ď92 Legacy wagonís which, comparatively speaking, was the best at the time.

If, and I fully expect it will, the new STiís interior isnít better still... Iíll be extremely surprised.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:13 AM   #189
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IMO, itís not the interior or exterior thatís of concern here... itís the DRIVETRAIN.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:01 AM   #190
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IMO, itís not the interior or exterior thatís of concern here... itís the DRIVETRAIN.
Seconded; I want to see a flared out SGP (WAGON or hatch), FA24 with a different turbo, but everything bolted to the back end of the engine to stay the same, maybe some revised ratios, but that's it.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:22 AM   #191
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Pipedream, but if could somehow limit the front overhang just a little bit more and get the thing closer to a 50/50 WR, that’d do wonders as well. The overhang is what it is, but surely they can shift chassis/cabin things rearward a little bit more.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:14 AM   #192
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IMO, it’s not the interior or exterior that’s of concern here... it’s the DRIVETRAIN.
Since we all know Subaru isn't going to make the drivetrain what everyone wants, the best you can do is hope that they improve upon the styling/interior.

They really need to use a different interior or just hold off on the WRX/STI until the Impreza is ready for a comprehensive update. The current gen Impreza is one of the oldest cars in its class at the moment, and the interior is already showing its age in comparison. The Mazda3 and Corolla are way better now, and imagine how the competition will look 8 years from now when the next gen WRX finally goes out to pasture provided it's using the same interior from the current Impreza.

The same goes for exterior styling. Subaru might have a different corporate look by that time too, and the WRX will look old on the outside, look old on the inside, and will probably have a mediocre drivetrain. That's a sure fire way to turn a car into the 370z which has been on sale since the W. Bush administration.

They just really need to do SOMETHING for their "halo" car. Letting it languish isn't an ideal situation. If they want to reduce its production to the final years of the body style a la Focus RS, sure...but don't let it lay around looking pathetic.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:42 AM   #193
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Pipedream, but if could somehow limit the front overhang just a little bit more and get the thing closer to a 50/50 WR, that’d do wonders as well. The overhang is what it is, but surely they can shift chassis/cabin things rearward a little bit more.
The problem is the engine is so far ahead of the front axle, it would take a change in the drivetrain layout to make 50:50 happen (EG. RWD based platform with a driveshaft running up to the front axle), that or Subaru could hang another engine behind the rear axle and lose the driveshaft doesn't fix the overhang issue, but solves the weight balance.

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Since we all know Subaru isn't going to make the drivetrain what everyone wants, the best you can do is hope that they improve upon the styling/interior.

They really need to use a different interior or just hold off on the WRX/STI until the Impreza is ready for a comprehensive update. The current gen Impreza is one of the oldest cars in its class at the moment, and the interior is already showing its age in comparison. The Mazda3 and Corolla are way better now, and imagine how the competition will look 8 years from now when the next gen WRX finally goes out to pasture provided it's using the same interior from the current Impreza.

The same goes for exterior styling. Subaru might have a different corporate look by that time too, and the WRX will look old on the outside, look old on the inside, and will probably have a mediocre drivetrain. That's a sure fire way to turn a car into the 370z which has been on sale since the W. Bush administration.

They just really need to do SOMETHING for their "halo" car. Letting it languish isn't an ideal situation. If they want to reduce its production to the final years of the body style a la Focus RS, sure...but don't let it lay around looking pathetic.
The existing drivetrain in the STI is good, is the lump at the front that needs addressing.

As for interior styling, the new legacy shots look pretty good, some of that would be fine.

Exterior styling is subjective, but a flared 5th gen Impreza or 6th gen (future) would be fine, hoodscoop or not it needs to stand out from the regular impreza, but be on the SGP instead of the old chassis.

Subaru has done a way better job than Nissan has with the 370z, admittedly though, that's a low bar, but if you want an interior space to complain about, the 370z is it - it was outdated when it came out, and hasn't changed since; seats & layout are good though, it's more a materials and digital items issue.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:56 AM   #194
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The existing drivetrain in the STI is good, is the lump at the front that needs addressing.

As for interior styling, the new legacy shots look pretty good, some of that would be fine.

Exterior styling is subjective, but a flared 5th gen Impreza or 6th gen (future) would be fine, hoodscoop or not it needs to stand out from the regular impreza, but be on the SGP instead of the old chassis.

Subaru has done a way better job than Nissan has with the 370z, admittedly though, that's a low bar, but if you want an interior space to complain about, the 370z is it - it was outdated when it came out, and hasn't changed since; seats & layout are good though, it's more a materials and digital items issue.
Agreed, the motor is the biggest problem - but they could throw in the 2.4DIT and give it 316hp and call it a day, which would be disappointing to say the least. I'm guessing that is what they'll do, they aren't going to push the envelope in performance on the thing, just make it marginally better than the outgoing car and then make snide comments about how "enthusiasts" aren't happy.

The interior issue really just revolves around them basing the car off the Impreza. Sure the Crosstrek and WRX are "different cars" as per their marketing mumbo jumbo, but we all know they're just Impreza variants with the majority of the parts underneath the skin shared between the two. They need to really make the WRX different or base the future Impreza off of it to keep it fresh for its lifespan. You can't expect them to release a new body style WRX every few years, but you also can't give it the previous gen interior and then release something significantly better and more updated for the "pedestrian" model a few months later.

Yes - the 370z is truly a low bar, but Subaru is appearing to take a page from that book with the lack of changes to the car over the last 6 years with no new car in sight. It almost gets to a point where you'd rather the car to die with dignity than let it linger around like a demented person in a nursing home.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:01 AM   #195
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Even if the new FA24DIT that will supposedly be in the next-gen STI only puts out marginally more power, wouldn't it be faster all-around with the twin-scroll? Faster spool = more area under the curve and all of that jazz. My only concern would be that it spools quickly, but runs out of steam early.

//

Speaking of single vs twin-scroll, I traded my '08 STI for a '14 FXT. While researching, I was happy to be gaining some practicality over the STI, but dreaded the CVT and loss in power. I was very pleased to find out that the CVT worked really well and the twin-scroll in the FXT was also a very nice improvement, despite the power deficit. It doesn't hurt that you can hear the turbo spool in the FXT cabin, which is a silly thing to get excited about, but cool nonetheless.

My point: I think people will be pleased with the STI, power-train-wise, given the new engine and SGP, even if peak power isn't increased much over the EJ257.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:28 AM   #196
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Agreed, the motor is the biggest problem - but they could throw in the 2.4DIT and give it 316hp and call it a day, which would be disappointing to say the least. I'm guessing that is what they'll do, they aren't going to push the envelope in performance on the thing, just make it marginally better than the outgoing car and then make snide comments about how "enthusiasts" aren't happy.

The interior issue really just revolves around them basing the car off the Impreza. Sure the Crosstrek and WRX are "different cars" as per their marketing mumbo jumbo, but we all know they're just Impreza variants with the majority of the parts underneath the skin shared between the two. They need to really make the WRX different or base the future Impreza off of it to keep it fresh for its lifespan. You can't expect them to release a new body style WRX every few years, but you also can't give it the previous gen interior and then release something significantly better and more updated for the "pedestrian" model a few months later.

Yes - the 370z is truly a low bar, but Subaru is appearing to take a page from that book with the lack of changes to the car over the last 6 years with no new car in sight. It almost gets to a point where you'd rather the car to die with dignity than let it linger around like a demented person in a nursing home.
on the interior - you gotta pay to play; the reason the wrx is a performance bargain is because the r&d money is spent in the parts that make the car go, not in the spot where you sit; would you prefer a.) the same engine and chassis with an upgraded interior for a little more money b.) a similar level of interior refinement with a better engine and chassis for a little more money or c) better interior and better engine, with a 5k bump to the MSRP? I'm in camp b.

an even if the 2.4DIT is only pushing 316hp it will be much better than an EJ pushing 316hp; dual scroll & better turbo location, as gathermewool stated, the area under the curve will be better.
When it was EJ to EJ; I preferred the WRX power delivery to that of the STi on the street; the VF-series took too long to spool.

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Even if the new FA24DIT that will supposedly be in the next-gen STI only puts out marginally more power, wouldn't it be faster all-around with the twin-scroll? Faster spool = more area under the curve and all of that jazz. My only concern would be that it spools quickly, but runs out of steam early.

My point: I think people will be pleased with the STI, power-train-wise, given the new engine and SGP, even if peak power isn't increased much over the EJ257.
I agree - paper racing is nothing compared to daily driving or real racing; I have no doubt that an FA24 STi on the SGP would be a marked improvement over the current STi, and it's only competition would be the forthcoming Golf-R and the low production Hype-R, which is FWD anyways.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:45 AM   #197
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on the interior - you gotta pay to play; the reason the wrx is a performance bargain is because the r&d money is spent in the parts that make the car go, not in the spot where you sit; would you prefer a.) the same engine and chassis with an upgraded interior for a little more money b.) a similar level of interior refinement with a better engine and chassis for a little more money or c) better interior and better engine, with a 5k bump to the MSRP? I'm in camp b.

an even if the 2.4DIT is only pushing 316hp it will be much better than an EJ pushing 316hp; dual scroll & better turbo location, as gathermewool stated, the area under the curve will be better.
When it was EJ to EJ; I preferred the WRX power delivery to that of the STi on the street; the VF-series took too long to spool.



I agree - paper racing is nothing compared to daily driving or real racing; I have no doubt that an FA24 STi on the SGP would be a marked improvement over the current STi, and it's only competition would be the forthcoming Golf-R and the low production Hype-R, which is FWD anyways.
I'm in Camp B as well - I'm just complaining about the interior being from the OLD Impreza, not the forthcoming one which is what I hope they do with it. Using an interior that debuted in 2016 on a 2021-2022MY brand new "performance" car is the wrong move. I don't want anything expensive or outrageous, just what they're going to be putting into the next gen ho-hum Impreza that will be following suit in a few months or at the same time as the next gen STI. It just makes sense from a packaging standpoint, a consistency standpoint, and from a cost standpoint. I can't imagine Subaru likes having useless SKUs laying around for previous gen stuff when they could share parts even more by sharing the two cars like they used to.

It all depends on how the power is delivered, but I owned a 2015 WRX and after I got over the "wow, this is fast in normal driving compared to the old one" feeling I felt the car was pretty anemic once you actually revved it out. It just felt like it died after 3000RPM which isn't a good feeling whatsoever. I know that's an issue with most of these modern DIT engines from all manufacturers, but I just hope they can keep the redline higher and at least add some "drama" to the STI with the new motor while still adding performance throughout the curve.

I've recently driven some high strung NA motors and that is truly a great feeling. It's something that I truly miss and probably something we'll never see again sadly. I feel like a 6000RPM redline on a "performance" car is the new norm until it's fully electric. The era of 8000+ RPM redlines is most likely over.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:21 PM   #198
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I'm in Camp B as well - I'm just complaining about the interior being from the OLD Impreza, not the forthcoming one which is what I hope they do with it. Using an interior that debuted in 2016 on a 2021-2022MY brand new "performance" car is the wrong move. I don't want anything expensive or outrageous, just what they're going to be putting into the next gen ho-hum Impreza that will be following suit in a few months or at the same time as the next gen STI. It just makes sense from a packaging standpoint, a consistency standpoint, and from a cost standpoint. I can't imagine Subaru likes having useless SKUs laying around for previous gen stuff when they could share parts even more by sharing the two cars like they used to.

It all depends on how the power is delivered, but I owned a 2015 WRX and after I got over the "wow, this is fast in normal driving compared to the old one" feeling I felt the car was pretty anemic once you actually revved it out. It just felt like it died after 3000RPM which isn't a good feeling whatsoever. I know that's an issue with most of these modern DIT engines from all manufacturers, but I just hope they can keep the redline higher and at least add some "drama" to the STI with the new motor while still adding performance throughout the curve.

I've recently driven some high strung NA motors and that is truly a great feeling. It's something that I truly miss and probably something we'll never see again sadly. I feel like a 6000RPM redline on a "performance" car is the new norm until it's fully electric. The era of 8000+ RPM redlines is most likely over.
In a qualified defense of the EJs, all mine after mods and tuning were set to a 7200 rpm fuel cut.

And, to the point, at least in the STi, its HP curve was still climing past 7k. The 48 is a great turbo for the engine in a street car.

On the road, it showed. In one run with an SS Camaro I was walking away from 120 on. At 135 he was 4-5 lengths back... before he quit and followed at a distance.

So the performance was there if you knew how to extract it. Personally, I don't know how a twin scrool turbo likely fitted to a production DIT engine can have that kind of top end.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:47 PM   #199
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I'm in Camp B as well - I'm just complaining about the interior being from the OLD Impreza, not the forthcoming one which is what I hope they do with it. Using an interior that debuted in 2016 on a 2021-2022MY brand new "performance" car is the wrong move. I don't want anything expensive or outrageous, just what they're going to be putting into the next gen ho-hum Impreza that will be following suit in a few months or at the same time as the next gen STI. It just makes sense from a packaging standpoint, a consistency standpoint, and from a cost standpoint. I can't imagine Subaru likes having useless SKUs laying around for previous gen stuff when they could share parts even more by sharing the two cars like they used to.

It all depends on how the power is delivered, but I owned a 2015 WRX and after I got over the "wow, this is fast in normal driving compared to the old one" feeling I felt the car was pretty anemic once you actually revved it out. It just felt like it died after 3000RPM which isn't a good feeling whatsoever. I know that's an issue with most of these modern DIT engines from all manufacturers, but I just hope they can keep the redline higher and at least add some "drama" to the STI with the new motor while still adding performance throughout the curve.

I've recently driven some high strung NA motors and that is truly a great feeling. It's something that I truly miss and probably something we'll never see again sadly. I feel like a 6000RPM redline on a "performance" car is the new norm until it's fully electric. The era of 8000+ RPM redlines is most likely over.

That's why I specifically mentioned EJ to EJ; I don't care for the FA20 in the 2015+ WRX; more displacement from the FA24 means you can have a bigger turbo without it feeling laggy, beyond that, the better location and the fact that it's a dual scroll means it hits sooner and stays longer. My car doesn't even really come alive until about 3k and it tapers after 6k, done by 6.5k (but I run it out to 7k sometimes because I can).

If you want 8.2k rpms, buy a GT350, that's what I want. I love NA motors that can wind up, the problem being they need some displacement so you don't have to stay way up in the rev range to have any fun. Another issue is the ever increasing weight of a given class of car.

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Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
In a qualified defense of the EJs, all mine after mods and tuning were set to a 7200 rpm fuel cut.

And, to the point, at least in the STi, its HP curve was still climing past 7k. The 48 is a great turbo for the engine in a street car.

On the road, it showed. In one run with an SS Camaro I was walking away from 120 on. At 135 he was 4-5 lengths back... before he quit and followed at a distance.

So the performance was there if you knew how to extract it. Personally, I don't know how a twin scrool turbo likely fitted to a production DIT engine can have that kind of top end.
I've got fuel cut set at 7,200 too. My TD04 runs out of steam before that, but somethings I like to listen to it wind out to 7k.

VF - slower spool better top end, TD04 quicker spool, blowing hot air up top; maybe I'll pick up a used VF and slap it on to do a proper comparison, that or find a stage 2 hawkeye STi near me to go for a cruise in.

Maybe we have different definitions of "on the street" I mean driving around town and chewing up back roads and on-ramps, not triple digit highway pulls; the VF works there, as well as on a track where you just hang out up high, I (typically) don't crack 80 on the highway, let alone triple digits, don't have the time or money to waste on tickets &/or court and impound fees. You do you man.

Last edited by Sid03SVT; 08-14-2019 at 01:23 PM. Reason: spelling mistakes
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:55 PM   #200
SeeeeeYa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post

I've got fuel cut set at 7,200 too. My TD04 runs out of steam before that, but somethings I like to listen to it wind out to 7k.

VF - slower spool better top end, TD04 quicker spool, blowing hot air up top; maybe I'll pick up a used VF and slap it on to do a proper comparison, that or find a stage 2 hawkeye STi near me to go for a cruise in.

Maybe we have different definitions of "on the street" I mean driving around town and chewing up back roads and on-ramps, not triple digit highway pulls; the VF works there, as well as on a track where you just hang out up high, I (typically) don't crack 80 on the highway, let alone triple digits, don't have the time or money to waste on tickets &/or court and impound fees. You do you man.
I gave up nothing with the STi's stock turbo. I hit full boost at 3200 and in first that comes very fast. It would break the tires loose on any surface that was not really clean and I wasn't at an angle. It would smoke all four at will. It's in the tuning... my tuning. My tuning being per-gear. It was an amazing street car in every way. I didn't have to be dramatic with speed to intimidate or put down wannabes. First gear usually took care of that.

Despite the 425+ bhp the STi had, I still returned a life time average of 22.5 mpg. That is the hp threshold to acceptable to me in a car that size. Since they're not getting appreciably lighter anything under that is anemic to me. Hence why I backed off, and decided to go back to my roots... techy NAs. Not the power to weight I want, but the Imp's engine is a good one... good enough for me. For now anyway.

Therefore, Subaru better uncork a better-than-ever in the next STi or the many people like me are not going to be beguiled by a pretty face with nice jewelry that dances pretty good. Anything else will be just one more Subaru with its balls cut off.
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