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Old 09-18-2002, 12:08 AM   #1
WRC WRX
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Default Buying some suspension parts best bang for your buck?

Well im am gonna spend some $ this week on the suspension i need to make the beast handle this is what i have on the list feel free to make sugestions

Cusco Type OS (Aluminum) - Front

Cusco Type OS-T (V-Brace) - Rear

Cusco 21mm Front

Cusco 22mm Rear

H&R Sport Springs (F: -1.5in) (R: -1.4in)

as for shocks im gonna wait till there are wrx specific ones out the stock should hold till then

anything else i should get ?

or not get



thanks

steve
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Old 09-18-2002, 01:19 AM   #2
Steppin Razor
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If you're looking for pure performance bang for the buck and do not value shiny things that only look cool, I would advise you to steer clear of the strut tower braces (especially cusco, not because of the quality, but the price). First, the money spent on an adjustable rear sway bar will go far because it will allow you to adjust the amount of oversteer your car has (very important). Next, I would save for the STi spring and strut combo or if you don't want to spend that much, go with the AGX struts and quality spring of your choice. Just be sure that the combo is compatible (very important for ride quality and longevity of the strut).
Last, and most important is a good wheel and tire package. I recommend 17" wheels for performance and the Kumho 712s are excellent tires if you're on a budget. Get the Bridgestones S-03s if you're not. Now, get out there and enjoy your investment!!
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Old 09-18-2002, 02:56 AM   #3
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I have basicly the suspension set up mentioned above
Whiteline adj Rear Sway bar
215/45/17s Dunlop FM901
KYB AGX w/ H&Rs
Whiteline strut tower bar
and HOLY CRAP handling is completely different, understeer is GREATLY reduced. Handling is more predictable and nimble. It all comes at a cost though, price, ground hight, comfort and rear trunk space with the seats folded down. IMO its worth it i guess...still miss the rear space and ground clearance. I started working on my suspension in that order, worked very well for me. I would say the biggest improvment was made by the sway bar and tires
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Old 09-18-2002, 03:21 AM   #4
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How do you like your FM901s? I read some crappy reviews of them on TireRack, but they could be wrong. Also I guess the Whiteline strut tower bar you have doesn't have a removable center section. Does the Cusco one with a removable center section not fit on wagons? Also, maybe you could eventually sell the AGX and H&R combo and get the STi package, it has a ride height much closer to stock.
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Old 09-18-2002, 07:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steppin Razor
If you're looking for pure performance bang for the buck and do not value shiny things that only look cool, I would advise you to steer clear of the strut tower braces (especially cusco, not because of the quality, but the price). First, the money spent on an adjustable rear sway bar will go far because it will allow you to adjust the amount of oversteer your car has (very important). Next, I would save for the STi spring and strut combo or if you don't want to spend that much, go with the AGX struts and quality spring of your choice. Just be sure that the combo is compatible (very important for ride quality and longevity of the strut).
Last, and most important is a good wheel and tire package. I recommend 17" wheels for performance and the Kumho 712s are excellent tires if you're on a budget. Get the Bridgestones S-03s if you're not. Now, get out there and enjoy your investment!!
what he said plus my .02
as the WRX chassis is already pretty stiff the money that would be spent on the strut bars would be better spent on tires. Since you are in my neck of the woods you might not want to go for 17" depending on where you drive most often. A cheap way to dramatically improve handling is a set of Falken Azenis (SUMMER ONLY!!!) especially if you plan on doing any auto-x / track days. they are great and stickier than most people know. you can put the blowtenzas back on in the winter without much fuss. I haven't heard anyone complaining about the H&R springs but a drop like that in the city is going to be a PITA plus your doing nothing about the relatively soft stock struts. Making the car handle like you want it is a tough thing to do, there are so many factors. You have to decide what you will use the car for and then try to get the car there. I could go on and on but there are people more qualified on this board to help you. PM or check out the tri-state area boards for upcoming meets, there are alot of helpful people in the area.

mark
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Old 09-18-2002, 08:58 AM   #6
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Ditto on the braces, and not doing the springs without struts. I bought a White line Kit, front and rear adjustable sway bars, rear strut brace and Anti-Lift kit, $530 from airborne motor sports (shameless plug). Along with 17X7.5 rota tarmacs with 225-45 Azenis sports $950 total for rims and tires.
The car handles sweet. But... I autocross in the STX class and had to remove the Anti-Lift because it is ilegal in the class, a damn shame, because the kit works wonderfully. The strut brace makes no discernable difference on the street but at an autocross I could tell it wasnt there when took I it out (I cant remember why I did this but it went back in that evening).

Also, I am going to add a set of rear sway bar links, once I decide between the White Line ones and the pretty blue aluminum ones (I think they are from Kartboy)

Later,

Andy
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Old 09-18-2002, 10:30 AM   #7
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I think most folks would agree that making incremental upgrades to your suspension is preferrable to putting on a bunch of different parts all at once. That way you can better discern the improvement each piece makes, and you can stop once you get the car behaving the way you want it to. Personally I'd advocate:
1. Sway bar upgrade
2. 17" wheel and tire upgrade
3. STi/SPT shocks springs & topmounts
4. STi/SPT control arms

You may very well be satisfied after only 1 and 2; if not you can proceed to 3 and beyond.
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Old 09-18-2002, 10:58 AM   #8
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not to bring up the classic debate, but hwy is everyone recommending 17" wheels over lets say an 18"? If it is a weight issue, well I can sort of understand that, but you can get light weight 18's. I am not sure what else it could be...strength? It is funny that a lot of performance cars such as porsches often come with 18's.

dont mean to hijack the thread by any means...just wanted to pose the question due to all the advice given
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Old 09-18-2002, 12:28 PM   #9
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while we're talking about sway bars, where have you guys been finding the best price on whiteline and cusco? any group buys for this stuff that might be older but still 'active'?? thanks.
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Old 09-18-2002, 01:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: Buying some suspension parts best bang for your buck?

tires
forget the other stuff


Quote:
Originally posted by WRC WRX
Well im am gonna spend some $ this week on the suspension i need to make the beast handle this is what i have on the list feel free to make sugestions

Cusco Type OS (Aluminum) - Front

Cusco Type OS-T (V-Brace) - Rear

Cusco 21mm Front

Cusco 22mm Rear

H&R Sport Springs (F: -1.5in) (R: -1.4in)

as for shocks im gonna wait till there are wrx specific ones out the stock should hold till then

anything else i should get ?

or not get



thanks

steve
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Old 09-18-2002, 01:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by jlogan9
not to bring up the classic debate, but hwy is everyone recommending 17" wheels over lets say an 18"? If it is a weight issue, well I can sort of understand that, but you can get light weight 18's. I am not sure what else it could be...strength? It is funny that a lot of performance cars such as porsches often come with 18's.

dont mean to hijack the thread by any means...just wanted to pose the question due to all the advice given
my reasons fro 17"

1) He lives in NYC, 18's are not a good idea here. Bad roads are the norm, hell I'm nervous enough with bombproof 17's. Less rubber between you and mr. pothole.
2)18" rims are more expensive and the tires are also more expensive, he said bang for your buck. The light 18's usually carry a big price tag.
3) the reports I've seen (R&T) have said that 18's give you no handling advantage over 17's, sometimes worse.

they look good and all but for the extra worry and $ its not worth it to me. I personally think they look great on the car, and if someone else gets them thats fine no flame

mark
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Old 09-18-2002, 02:43 PM   #12
arew_WReX
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The only real and true reason is they dont make AZENIS in 18"
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Old 09-18-2002, 02:53 PM   #13
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Rule #1: Tires first!

I guess I'm a hypocrite, I didn't follow that rule. But if you want to really make your car handle well, and you'll be driving it hard most of the time (which I don't), new tires are THE BIGGEST key.
Very important. Lots of options out there. If you stick with 16" size, many people say you should make the switch to 205/50-16 from 205/55-16 (OEM). The 5% shorter sidewall is used in UK/JDM Impreza applications I think, excepting of course the cars that have 17" or 18" wheels. Word is that 205/55 was started by SOA because with Subaru's new image (Outback, etc.), people wanted an emphasis on comfort. So that provided a bit of extra cush.

Your odometer would be off, but not by much. I think if it reads 73, you're really doing 75. Something like that. Pretty minimal.
I myself upgraded to Dunlop SP9000 tires this past April, but in OEM 205/55 size. I didn't know about the 205/50 thing back then.
Talk to Mike Shields at www.SPDUSA.com about it. [email protected] . He's a highly respected Subaru guru, a great vendor.


Aside from that, when it comes to suspension, definitely do both springs AND struts. Some say it's more important to upgrade the struts.... i.e. if you really wanted to, you could have OEM springs on new struts (like the Subaru Version 5 ones).
It wouldn't be a matched set, and might be a little weird, but I think it's less harmful than using new springs on OEM struts.
I have the Ver.5 setup... bought the springs from a member in Hawaii who'd never used them, and opted for a different setup.
The struts I got from Exeter Subaru in New Hampshire, www.subaruwrxparts.com . As someone said, if you don't have the money for them, go with AGX.

What happened was that SOA raised the price on the struts. They used to be $225-250ish, but now run at $600+ for a set.
Subaru (of America??) supposedly discovered that they were selling them for too little, it was some kind of pricing error. My theory is that they wanted to just make more money off of them, though. As for the Ver.5 springs, they're not made anymore.
You can buy the Ver.5 setup at any dealership, it's an available upgrade. The springs they use are "Subaru Performance Tuning" springs, which are made by Eibach. Not sure how they compare to the original (black) Ver.5 springs, though.... I think the V5s are a bit stiffer.
Anyway, a setup that once was ~$500 is now ~$900, basically.
If these guys say AGX is a good alternative, check that out.
TireRack has options too, I'm sure.

Here is the V5 strut, with V5 springs:


As I said, you can't get the V5 springs anymore. So here are the "SPD" ones (Eibach):


These pics come from Exeter Subaru's website. (Click on "Performance" and then pick your car.) They also sell MRT springs for the same price ($210 it seems).

Also, if you opt for a new suspension, be sure to look into the STi strut top mount replacements. Exeter sells them, lots of people do. (i.e. Challenger Deep...) They replace the OEM ones and are supposedly a lot stiffer, designed to make the spring upgrade more worthwhile. I guess the OEM ones will flex too much with the new springs, making the ride kind of bouncy sometimes. I didn't know about that either when I did my V5 upgrade last fall. But you have to take the whole setup apart again to install them, I haven't the personal skill or the cash right now. They go for like $240/set I think.



Strut tower braces are indeed unnecessary, that is unless you're really brutal on your car. Lots of track events, etc. Word on the street is that they help a lot with chassis flex, but only under SEVERE cornering force. So most of the time, you won't notice anything. I have a front one by Whiteline, I bought it only because it was on sale. From Revolutions Motorsports, maybe...
I forget. Bought it last fall. Got the rear one too, but couldn't use it because I have a custom stereo install in the trunk. Can't get at the strut tops. So I sold it.
If you want a REALLY good, REALLY sexy front strut tower brace though, save up for this one:



It's Rallyperformance's brace ($389 I think). Expensive, but not as much as the STi carbon fiber one (which is $500+ )

It's only available for GC8 cars now, but they say a WRX one's coming out.


Okay I will shut up now.
-S2-
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Old 09-18-2002, 03:10 PM   #14
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well as far as tires and rims go next month im getting a set of rota subzeros with polished lip with the bridgestone S03s

what size do you guys recommed for the tire i want to be able to take corners withouthaving to worry about killing the rim also is wider better?


so you guys think i should pass on the strut tower bars?

they dont make any diff?
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Old 09-18-2002, 03:17 PM   #15
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Like I said, they're mostly cosmetic (and they are pretty, don't get me wrong) unless you're twisting that chassis an awful lot.


As for tire size, well +1 from OEM is 215/45-17 but a lot of folks say to get 225/45-17. That's the size that comes on the WRX STi.
It may be a +1 from 205/50-16, I'm not sure...
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Old 09-18-2002, 03:56 PM   #16
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if the subzeroes are 7.5" wide 225/45/17 is a good fit, 7" wide 215's are good. I don't think you'll ever take corners hard enough for you to damage a rim, and if you do you'll have bigger problems than that. wider is not always better ... too wide and you can easily get rollover which is a dangerous condition. you want to have the "optimum" tire width for the rim.

btw for the stock rims if you auto-x put on 215/45/16's puts or odo. off but not by much (5%).
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Old 09-18-2002, 07:37 PM   #17
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i installed the freedom designs strut tower brace which only cost $100 and looks pretty. i also got the eibach pro kit, hotchkis sway bars and sti strut top mounts. everything is much stiffer, but the stock tires are definitely the weak link here. i have new rims, but cant afford tires till spring. the snow will fly soon anyhow, so im not so conscerned about putting the new shoes on.
to sum up;
freedom designs - cheap & pretty
sti/eibach - stiff
hotchkis - super stiff
red - pretty
oem tires - ok
aftermarket tires - expensive
snow - bad but fun
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Old 09-18-2002, 08:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRC WRX
so you guys think i should pass on the strut tower bars?
The MY02 chassis is very stiff. Most people who know what they're talking about recommend adding STBs when going to a significantly stiffer suspension. As long as you have a suspension (nearly) as soft as stock, the STBs will at best be a minor upgrade, and I would delay them if you're on a tight budget. If anything, the rear one seems to be more useful than the front.

If you have the money, a nice set of matched springs and struts will be your best buy. Items like swaybars can change suspension characteristics to some degree, but springs and struts are the core.

And tires, of course. As the Michelin commercial says, they're the only part of the car that touches the road!
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Old 09-18-2002, 08:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Siper2
Lots of options out there. If you stick with 16" size, many people say you should make the switch to 205/50-16 from 205/55-16 (OEM). The 5% shorter sidewall is used in UK/JDM Impreza applications I think, excepting of course the cars that have 17" or 18" wheels.
Does the UK/JDM Impreza have the same gear ratio and final drive ratio as the RS over here?

Chieh
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Old 09-18-2002, 10:42 PM   #20
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just to intercept one little thing
cusco front strut bar is only $140 shipped.
thats from german-autowerks..........oops........i mean gruppe-s.

tires i would recommend. which ones? i dont know since im still reviewing/reading about which ones to get plus i only have 11k on my car so i have some time before i decide.
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Old 09-19-2002, 12:20 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRC WRX
so you guys think i should pass on the strut tower bars?
I didn't see if you had a wagon or sedan. I'm guessing sedan, but if do have a wagon. I'd have to argue the rear strut tower brace is effective. Since the rather strong wall behind the rear seat in the sedan more or less functions as a strut tower brace. That's a large piece of welded metal that's missing from the wagon.

When I put on my whiteline rear STB, I noticed that my back end wasn't so prone to slide around. Which in a way, isn't as fun as before. Until I relearn the limits of my car

My current set-up consists of:
17" Rota sub-zeros w/ Kuhmo's or some sort (they're sticky)
Cusco rear adj sway bar (set to 22mm)
Whiteline rear endlinks
and the Whiteline rear STB

Personally, as soon as I can save up for it. I'm going after the AV Sport stage 2 suspension package. It's a heck of a deal for what you get. Which is:

Pink STi springs
Pink STi 4-way adjustable inverted struts
STi upper mounts
STi lower control arms and
STi rear trailing arms

The package is $2700 OUCH!! But if you price it out individually the pieces are alot more. Bear in mind, this is NOT the SPT package that is sold thru the dealers!

Good luck
mike
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Old 09-19-2002, 12:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by newscooby

My current set-up consists of:
17" Rota sub-zeros w/ Kuhmo's or some sort (they're sticky)
Cusco rear adj sway bar (set to 22mm)
Whiteline rear endlinks
and the Whiteline rear STB

Personally, as soon as I can save up for it. I'm going after the AV Sport stage 2 suspension package. It's a heck of a deal for what you get. Which is:

Pink STi springs
Pink STi 4-way adjustable inverted struts
STi upper mounts
STi lower control arms and
STi rear trailing arms

The package is $2700 OUCH!! But if you price it out individually the pieces are alot more. Bear in mind, this is NOT the SPT package that is sold thru the dealers!

Good luck
mike
Yeah, that looks like the way to go. I have a 20mm sedan rear sway bar, and it helped but I'm craving more oversteer. How does the Cusco set at 22mm work for you? That AV Sport package looks nice!! Keep us updated on your project. I'm jealous.
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Old 09-19-2002, 02:30 AM   #23
I drive a WRX wagon
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steppin Razor
How do you like your FM901s? I read some crappy reviews of them on TireRack, but they could be wrong. Also I guess the Whiteline strut tower bar you have doesn't have a removable center section. Does the Cusco one with a removable center section not fit on wagons? Also, maybe you could eventually sell the AGX and H&R combo and get the STi package, it has a ride height much closer to stock.
The only tire i can compare them to are RE92s and they are far better than those tires. No problems with them, noticably louder and they could use a stiffer side wall but i think theyre great. The whiteline tower bar does have a removable mid section which is done by unbolting it from the posts. I think the cusco has the same feature. My only problem with the hight is the rear, my muffler piping scrapes sometimes with a full car on the freeway and driveways b/c the spring perch on the KYBs sit a 1/2 inch lower than in the GD shocks, im thinking of switching the H&Rs for the prodrive springs then eventually going full STi or DMS 40s. Also forgot to mention that i have the STi strut tops but i didnt notice the difference with them since i installed them with the springs and struts
As for the strut bars, personally i only got it b/c it was cheap but after i installed it, it did make a noticable difference. The rear feels more planted and there is less lean. In a turn where i would normally hear the tires begin to squeal w/o the bar, it went through the corner w/o a sound.
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Old 09-19-2002, 10:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by gypsymoth


Does the UK/JDM Impreza have the same gear ratio and final drive ratio as the RS over here?

Chieh

I've no idea. Probably not.

I'm usually VERY wary about messing with things like tire size, but... it seems the knowledgeable (that being the key word) performance guys are all over 205/50 tires, so....

*shrug*

Talk to Mike Shields about it. [email protected]

-S2-
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Old 09-19-2002, 11:44 AM   #25
WRC WRX
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Well ive decided to hold off on this purchase save another month a get full coilovers and swaybars at the same time as the rims and tires.


Any recommedations for coilover setups?
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