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Old 06-28-2019, 11:31 PM   #851
2slofouru
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If you are at the level you need to shave some of the engine case and are running turbos of this caliber, it would seem eliminating the tgvs and even going to a non tgv manifold would be a no-brainer. Maybe in states with more strict emission rules, that would be a problem.

The exhaust path has higher velocity /lower density gases and its angles are more crucial. The intake path can benefit from a smoother path, but because of the lower velocity, the angles are less crucial to an extent.

I test fitted the intake hose that came with the kit, and because I'm running a na big plenum manifold, the hose goes on the compressor housing without much fuss. You do need to hold it while tightening, but it's not kinked or squished. I wouldn't hesitate to remove a tgv setup.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTERISBETTER View Post
Yup exactly. Some are really really bad to the point where people are grinding away at their TGV housings to get enough clearance to get it on at all and then it's kinked and barely has the clamp on it.

I know some are much better than others. But if the Spoolinator is a straighter shot it should be part of the marketing gimmick cuz really that's the only major downside to having the inlet under the intake manifold. The Spoolinator fixes the poor turbine housing problem so if it fixes the poor inlet angle problem then why bother going rotated.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:36 PM   #852
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yeah and honestly i would wait til the g25 660 comes out I think it will be a much better turbo than the 3067 or 3071
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Old 06-29-2019, 04:59 PM   #853
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Notice I was talking about fitment against my TGV housing - the TGVs themselves are gone. I also put a spacer under the housings, to move the manifold-to-housing bolt up a little bit. A TGV-less manifold couldn't hurt but I'm also not sure it would make a difference.
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Old 06-29-2019, 05:08 PM   #854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
yeah and honestly i would wait til the g25 660 comes out I think it will be a much better turbo than the 3067 or 3071
That's a good point. I'd love to see some data logs when the new ones come out.
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Old 06-29-2019, 07:59 PM   #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
Inlet position varies more than you think between different "stock location" turbochargers.

I have an ATP GT3076 with an APS 3 inch metal inlet pipe, and the edge of the turbo inlet is next to the TGV housing, but the flow path isn't bad. It's a tight fit, but everything does fit.

I've seen photos of turbo installs where the incoming air has to zig-zag drastically around the TGV housing on its way to the impeller, and the coupling between the turbo inlet and the inlet pipe gets horribly tortured. Those are the ones that gave stock location turbochargers such a bad reputation. Painful to install and sub-standard results.

The turbo centerlines look like they're a half-inch to the right of where ATP's exhaust housing puts their centerline. And maybe a half-inch forward as well, mashed right up against the TGV housing.

I have not seen photos showing the placement of the turbo inlets and the TGVs on any Spoolinator setups, so I'm curious too.

At some point I'm going to want to replace my GT3076 with a GTX30something.
thats great an all but we are talking about the spoolinator kit not a atp housing that saposed to fit okay, I was going to use the FP 83mm but when I got the turbo it looked like a nightmare to fit that thing So yeah I reallyt think 3 in is about as big as you can do without the heartache of trying to get it to fit
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Old 06-29-2019, 09:14 PM   #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
thats great an all but we are talking about the spoolinator kit not a atp housing that saposed to fit okay, I was going to use the FP 83mm but when I got the turbo it looked like a nightmare to fit that thing So yeah I reallyt think 3 in is about as big as you can do without the heartache of trying to get it to fit
We're talking about how stock location large turbos tend to fit like s#$t and there is no mention of whether the Spoolinator improves on this or not. ATP garrett stock location turbos fit better than a lot of other large turbos with 3" inlets and that's what was being said above. It's a valid comparison.

I'm assuming Spoolinator is better since ATP stock location garrett turbos fit without grinding unless the compressor housings are smaller than standard garrett 3" housings.

Still looking for a shot of how it passes by the tgv housings from the top (lets assume everyone has deleted the valves and actuators). I've only seen the one on a stand from the front but that is inconclusive.
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Old 06-30-2019, 02:39 PM   #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTERISBETTER View Post
We're talking about how stock location large turbos tend to fit like s#$t and there is no mention of whether the Spoolinator improves on this or not. ATP garrett stock location turbos fit better than a lot of other large turbos with 3" inlets and that's what was being said above. It's a valid comparison.

I'm assuming Spoolinator is better since ATP stock location garrett turbos fit without grinding unless the compressor housings are smaller than standard garrett 3" housings.

Still looking for a shot of how it passes by the tgv housings from the top (lets assume everyone has deleted the valves and actuators). I've only seen the one on a stand from the front but that is inconclusive.
I'm taking a wild guess here...but since the Tial housing offers better flow and allows the compressor housing to move over closer to the block (hence the grinding) that the turbo's flow geometry and compressor inlet position vs intake runners are also improved. I've seen people complaining of "stock position" larger turbo inlet problems long before the spoolinator kit was devised, and considering mine fits even with the 3" compressor inlet, that it is an improvement in at least two aspects. This thread is originally about the Spoolinator kits though, so maybe we shouldn't tangent off too much.
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:20 PM   #858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
I'm taking a wild guess here...but since the Tial housing offers better flow and allows the compressor housing to move over closer to the block (hence the grinding) that the turbo's flow geometry and compressor inlet position vs intake runners are also improved. I've seen people complaining of "stock position" larger turbo inlet problems long before the spoolinator kit was devised, and considering mine fits even with the 3" compressor inlet, that it is an improvement in at least two aspects. This thread is originally about the Spoolinator kits though, so maybe we shouldn't tangent off too much.
It's not a tangent!! The question is asking if the Spoolinator improves on both of the only 2 things that are gained by using the Spoolinator vs other large stock location turbos. The first is the primary and that is replacing the restrictive turbine housing with the Tial the second is intake position which is also important, not as important as turbine housing but still important.

Yes it's likely better since you have to grind the block for clearance which you don't have to with other kits but how much better is it. Again it's not a tangent it's a very relevant question about the Spoolinator.

If the intake still points right at the intake runner or TGV housing causing a kink in the intake I'm going rotated if but if it fixes it and maybe just needs the offset coupler (if using a hardpipe) with no pinching then the Spoolinator is the way to go. The cost difference between the two is nothing so performance and simplicity are the tie breakers.
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:28 PM   #859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTERISBETTER View Post
It's not a tangent!! The question is asking if the Spoolinator improves on both of the only 2 things that are gained by using the Spoolinator vs other large stock location turbos. The first is the primary and that is replacing the restrictive turbine housing with the Tial the second is intake position which is also important, not as important as turbine housing but still important.

Yes it's likely better since you have to grind the block for clearance which you don't have to with other kits but how much better is it. Again it's not a tangent it's a very relevant question about the Spoolinator.

If the intake still points right at the intake runner or TGV housing causing a kink in the intake I'm going rotated if but if it fixes it and maybe just needs the offset coupler (if using a hardpipe) with no pinching then the Spoolinator is the way to go. The cost difference between the two is nothing so performance and simplicity are the tie breakers.

So what is your question then? Thought my previous statement had two answers. If you want it to bolt in with no mods but a pain in the butt intake issue, go with a typical "bolt in" option. If you want improved intake and exhaust flow geometry that requires some grinding away of extra block material, go with the Spoolinator. It's really not a major job.

I realize the information is spread all over the place, but Chris has attempted to answer specific questions over the span of this thread and others as well. Maybe PM him and see what he thinks. Eventually I hope to have actually installed pics of my build, but with random plan changes it's taking a while. There are pics of the turbo bolted to the up pipe and the intake in position somewhere, but probably just links. I will try and find them or take another when I get a chance at work.
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:51 PM   #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
So what is your question then? Thought my previous statement had two answers. If you want it to bolt in with no mods but a pain in the butt intake issue, go with a typical "bolt in" option. If you want improved intake and exhaust flow geometry that requires some grinding away of extra block material, go with the Spoolinator. It's really not a major job.

I realize the information is spread all over the place, but Chris has attempted to answer specific questions over the span of this thread and others as well. Maybe PM him and see what he thinks. Eventually I hope to have actually installed pics of my build, but with random plan changes it's taking a while. There are pics of the turbo bolted to the up pipe and the intake in position somewhere, but probably just links. I will try and find them or take another when I get a chance at work.
I'm looking for Killer B or someone who has the kit installed to confirm the intake path is actually significantly improved. There is no claim to that anywhere. A picture from the top would be nice. You're answer is speculative or at least presented that way. I've read this thread and many others about the kit without hard evidence on this problem.

There are images around from different angles that are very inconclusive. One is from the front with nothing under the intake which kinda looks better but it's not conclusive, others are from the drivers side that don't show the problem spot. The most representative image is straight down looking at the back bolt of the TGV housing and how the intake passes by it.

The Spoolinator is a great piece of engineering either way and obviously is a cool solution with big gains. Just want all the facts before making a decision since it's an expensive one that's tough to turn back from once the decision is made (without throwing away money). I would never go with a huge stock location turbo without the Spoolinator. Grinding isn't a big deal.
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:59 PM   #861
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There will always be a kink. I'm using a gtx2867r with the 3" inlet under the manifold mounted on a killerb header/uppipe which has been modified, also a custom downpipe. My turbo has been twisted slightly to reduce the link however it will always exist without turning the turbo a few more degrees which I don't think is possible with the spoolinator podium but then would compromise the dp.

I'll try to find a shot from on top.


Edit:

Here is a photo. The amr hard inlet has been modified as well

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Old 06-30-2019, 08:34 PM   #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blurred View Post
There will always be a kink. I'm using a gtx2867r with the 3" inlet under the manifold mounted on a killerb header/uppipe which has been modified, also a custom downpipe. My turbo has been twisted slightly to reduce the link however it will always exist without turning the turbo a few more degrees which I don't think is possible with the spoolinator podium but then would compromise the dp.

I'll try to find a shot from on top.


Edit:

Here is a photo. The amr hard inlet has been modified as well

Thanks for the pic!!! That looks good anyway. The turbo sits back letting the offset coupler make a smooth curve. Guess the bigger issue with others is they are too far forward and the coupler has to be jammed in there to get it on the turbo compressor inlet and it gets collapsed by the TGV bolt boss. It has a jog in it but it's not kinked reducing cross sectional area.

What modification did you do to the AMR hard pipe inlet?
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Old 06-30-2019, 11:32 PM   #863
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And what changes did you make to the up-pipe?
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Old 07-01-2019, 03:38 AM   #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTERISBETTER View Post
Thanks for the pic!!! That looks good anyway. The turbo sits back letting the offset coupler make a smooth curve. Guess the bigger issue with others is they are too far forward and the coupler has to be jammed in there to get it on the turbo compressor inlet and it gets collapsed by the TGV bolt boss. It has a jog in it but it's not kinked reducing cross sectional area.

What modification did you do to the AMR hard pipe inlet?
The turbo sits in the same location because the up pipe determines that. It is turned counterclockwise a few degrees which straightened the path. The amr inlet was cut and rewelded to make the path straighter after twisting the turbo.

Quote:
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And what changes did you make to the up-pipe?
Just cut the flange off and changed it to v-band as well as adding a low angle ewg merge



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Old 07-03-2019, 08:58 PM   #865
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I mocked the turbo up with the manifold bolted on with two bolts, to show clearance with a non tgv type long runner manifold. The turbo could even be swung right a little more and not kink the inlet pipe. It's really not a sacrifice to run this style manifold, especially since so many remove tgvs or get aftermarket manifolds. I'm posting the google drive links until I get a better way figured out.

I'm confident the 3582 or 4 would fit without issue, but wanted something more easily streetable to decide if a larger turbo will be in the forecast.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-mO...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-aC...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-U4...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-NR...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-NR...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-I-...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-JV...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-7S...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-7i...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UMO...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 07-03-2019, 10:44 PM   #866
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Looks great.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:06 PM   #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
Looks great.
I'm itching to hear it purr, but still have lots of other work to finish. Washer here, gasket there, fittings, etc.

Do any of my other drive photos show, or only the links I provided? I don't want all photos public and drive settings seem to have changed.
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:31 AM   #868
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Quoted to avoid confusion
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:32 AM   #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
I'm itching to hear it purr, but still have lots of other work to finish. Washer here, gasket there, fittings, etc.



Do any of my other drive photos show, or only the links I provided? I don't want all photos public and drive settings seem to have changed.
All I see is sexy pics!
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Old 07-18-2019, 12:53 PM   #870
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Saw you got the G series in the series gray STI, was it tuned while JR was there or still awaiting to be tuned?
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:41 AM   #871
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Saw you got the G series in the series gray STI, was it tuned while JR was there or still awaiting to be tuned?
It was not. It's all back together I am just waiting on break-in oil that seems to be what feels like a forever backorder wait

We are starting with the built engine with a VF on it as a baseline and then we'll be stepping through a couple turbo kit variants along with other product install/tests
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:19 AM   #872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
I mocked the turbo up with the manifold bolted on with two bolts, to show clearance with a non tgv type long runner manifold. The turbo could even be swung right a little more and not kink the inlet pipe. It's really not a sacrifice to run this style manifold, especially since so many remove tgvs or get aftermarket manifolds. I'm posting the google drive links until I get a better way figured out.

I'm confident the 3582 or 4 would fit without issue, but wanted something more easily streetable to decide if a larger turbo will be in the forecast.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-mO...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-aC...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-U4...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-NR...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-NR...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-I-...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-JV...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-7S...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-7i...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UMO...ew?usp=sharing

Damn that pathway is hella nice compared to with TGV's - that actually makes a considerable difference.
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:13 PM   #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebie View Post
Damn that pathway is hella nice compared to with TGV's - that actually makes a considerable difference.
No reason to go rotated with this type of setup, plus the 3582 can fit as well... unless you don't prefer the garretts or want substantially more turbo. I may move up to the 82 if the car's purpose changes, but for not it's going to be a daily so the 76 should be enough. I've never ran anything larger than a vf22 and Stx20g-r, so can't wait to feel the difference.
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:57 AM   #874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
No reason to go rotated with this type of setup, plus the 3582 can fit as well... unless you don't prefer the garretts or want substantially more turbo. I may move up to the 82 if the car's purpose changes, but for not it's going to be a daily so the 76 should be enough. I've never ran anything larger than a vf22 and Stx20g-r, so can't wait to feel the difference.
When do you think you will have this finished? We are excited to see your results!

Nick
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:27 PM   #875
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When do you think you will have this finished? We are excited to see your results!

Nick

Pfft well I have a few more AN fittings in the mail and will be installing the fuel tank, surge tank, AN lines, etc soon. Unsure how quickly the engine end will progress. I wanted to install a few air manifolds to tie things into and have random adjustable pressure sensors to use for safety and other controls.

I also need to decide on modifying the ancient original engine harness or building one from scratch. Kind of worried about all of the wires sealing correctly but I do have several new oem engine harness connectors with pins and grommets.

When the temperatures drop, I will have more motivation, but it's been a lot of ordering and trying fittings and other parts. Takes forever when you have to get everything through the mail before really knowing if it's going to fit or work.

So basically, I barely have anything done
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