|
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
04-05-2016, 10:24 AM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 407265
Join Date: Nov 2014
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NoVA
|
FA20DIT / '15 WRX Build - Yep, I brokeded it [Updated 8/22]
These first two posts will be frequently updated. Check back often if you're interested in following the build.
I know that Psychlobe is still waiting on his install to be finished, but I'm really interested in people that have built FA20DITs. If you've got a built FA20DIT, what parts did you use? Do you like it? Has it been dependable and durable? I'm considering the IAG block since mine just went pop.. I've decided that I'm going to be building my engine, now that I have a more definitive "Yep, ****s ****ed" conclusion*. When I actually crack it open, I'll update this thread with what we find. In the mean time, my current gameplan is to build a reliable 350/400 whp daily driver. Or rather, over build the piss out of it, but not actually achieve that with the rinky dink stock turbo... For the foreseeable future (having just bought a house), reliability and longevity is my goal, with some fun on a bun. Then when I have a second daily, build baby, build. * Formal spun bearing diagnosis on April 8, 2016. A word of caution to all, this car was never tracked, and rarely driven hard. Three separate Cobb Certified PROTuners helped me by reviewing my map as it was developed (all credit for my jumping off point to Anjuna - our cars were similar enough that I stole his base map and went from there). If there's any interest, I'm happy to post my MAP up (it's pre-SoA logic update. I was literally about half done the manual migration when I spun a bearing). Used Penzoil Ultra Plat 5w30 exclusively, OEM filter at every change (every change at 3k). I even sent samples in for analysis for almost every change. Failure Details Model/Year: 2015 WRX Milage: 14,479 Engine Management: Tuned by me, reviewed and tweaked by three different Cobb PROTuners Mods: Catted turboback, EGR, AOS, TGV, TMIC Fuel: 93 Exclusively (Shell, Sunoco, etc) Oil: Penzoil Ultra Plat 5w30, OEM Filters Circumstances: 4th gear road pull Actual engine failure: Spun main bearing. The rest of the block is in pristine condition. Internals, Shortblock built by Outfront Motorsports†
Head Work, via. Element Tuning
Additional Mods
Oiling
Should I be under the recommended minimum of 10 PSI per 1000 RPM, I can up the weight to 15w-40. Edit Aug 23: Using 10w-40 Motul break-in, I'm at ~20 PSI per 1000 RPM. 'Ballin Misc
Pictures
Videos
† Longblock assembled by the legendary carnz-pj-410 ‡ The Ferrera +2mm valves don't fit. +1mm is all you can squeeze out of the DIT heads. The heads are drastically different between the NA and DIT variants of the FA20
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Last edited by fl1p; 04-17-2017 at 06:38 PM. |
04-06-2016, 10:42 AM | #2 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 407265
Join Date: Nov 2014
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NoVA
|
Updates [as they roll in]
April 4th-ish, 2016
April 8, 2016
April 12, 2016
April 19, 2016
May 5th, 2016
May 10th, 2016
May 11th, 2016
May 12th, 2016
May 16th, 2016
May 18th, 2016
May 26th, 2016
June 1st, 2016
June 10th, 2016
June 11th, 2016
July 1st, 2016
July 25th, 2016
Aug 11th, 2016
Aug 13, 2016
Aug 15, 2016
Aug 21, 2016
Last edited by fl1p; 08-21-2016 at 05:29 PM. |
04-07-2016, 12:37 PM | #3 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 438479
Join Date: Jan 2016
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Vehicle:2015 WRX ISM |
Lots of pics, please!
Why did you decide to build your own over IAG? |
04-07-2016, 06:18 PM | #4 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 407265
Join Date: Nov 2014
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NoVA
|
Last edited by fl1p; 04-07-2016 at 08:06 PM. Reason: Don't worry, lots of pics will come |
04-07-2016, 08:17 PM | #5 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 110994
Join Date: Mar 2006
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: BALTIMORE
Vehicle:2006 SGM STi 1997 SVX LSi |
This should be a badass setup
Last edited by carnz-pj-410; 04-07-2016 at 08:28 PM. |
04-07-2016, 09:15 PM | #6 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
CP make makes DIT pistons (not BRZ)? Last I knew only JE made DIT pistons for the turbo FA.
|
04-07-2016, 09:25 PM | #7 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 407265
Join Date: Nov 2014
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NoVA
|
That depends entirely on who your vendor is, which came as a bit of a surprise to me. Publicly, they do not. CP has an exclusive deal with another motorsports outfit for FA20DIT Pistons (there is a range of compression ratios to choose from, depending on what the goal is).
Last edited by fl1p; 04-07-2016 at 09:26 PM. Reason: Spelling/clarification |
04-08-2016, 06:49 AM | #8 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
We have custom pistons made by piston manufacturer's on occasion. It's not that difficult if you have relationships with the manufacturers. JE simply copied the OEM geometry (on top), but obviously with a much more robust material, design tweaks, and manufacturing processes.
I asked because I've seen some DIT pistons used, that should not have been, resulting in poor results. The piston top is where Subaru/Toyota spent obscene amounts of money to make work well with DIT technology. To the aftermarket it's still fairly new, and many of the pre-DIT design principles should not be used with DIT. The safe bet is to go with a piston top and C/R matched to OEM unit vs using a piston the aftermarket says should work (and leaves the testing to you). Here's a thought to ponder. How many of the piston manufacturer's have an FA engine, or outsource, to test and develop their products? As far as I am aware, the market is so new and so young that IT is doing the testing. |
04-08-2016, 11:10 AM | #9 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 407265
Join Date: Nov 2014
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NoVA
|
Quote:
Last edited by fl1p; 04-20-2016 at 06:34 PM. |
|
04-08-2016, 09:29 PM | #10 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 389682
Join Date: May 2014
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Vehicle:20 15 WRX/2016 STI WRB/WRB |
A note on BRZ vs FA20DIT pistons. It appears the small "dimple" area in the bottom of the piston on the DIT motor is for stratified combustion. This is possible when you have a TGV system, as the swirling mixture bounces off the bottom of the piston, and that dimple shapes it into a ball and it ignites more efficiently. It isn't quite a true stratified setup since it doesn't lean burn at 17:1 AFR, but it is the same in principle. When you build a motor for HP, remove TGVs/separator plates, then tweak the DI timing for maximum fuel flow; all that does is create another sharp edge to divert the pressure wave and possibly be a source of pre-ignition. So they are absolutely not needed in our opinion unless you're running the stock TGV system and low load operation.
The BRZ uses a combined port/direct system and has no TGV plate and massively bigger ports/intake valves, hence no need there. |
04-09-2016, 09:59 AM | #11 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 407265
Join Date: Nov 2014
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NoVA
|
This is interesting. Not knowing enough about the physics, do you have any reading material that you can share? I would love to learn more about how piston shape, specifically between TGV and non-TVG engines, changes.
|
04-09-2016, 09:23 PM | #12 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
TGV operation is only under low load and cold conditions. BRZ uses DIT primarily under those same conditions with the port injection taking over as load increases (which is why they don't have the same fueling issues as the WRX FA20).
The WRX FA20 is DIT only, different CR, smaller valves, different block, pistons, etc., etc... They share fewer similarities than many have assumed. We've seen a shops try BRZ pistons before anything else was available, and the results were poor. If you have different results, we'd all love to see it. |
04-11-2016, 06:38 PM | #13 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 395439
Join Date: Jul 2014
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: CA, Fresno
Vehicle:2015 WRX Crystal Black Silica |
Going to do any headwork?
|
04-12-2016, 08:48 PM | #14 | |
Former Vendor
Member#: 389682
Join Date: May 2014
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Vehicle:20 15 WRX/2016 STI WRB/WRB |
Quote:
The WRX appears to use the TGVs much more than the EJ, and they work at very low loads/airflows. The BRZ has port injection not just up top, but most of down low up to 3200 RPM, right about the same as the TGV tip over point. Turning that car to full DI by turning off port injection makes no additional power, and most customers see drivability suffering compared to PI/DI combos. Subaru tried fixing this with the TGV being a full time operator and not just for cold start like the EJ. Overall I'd much rather have the BRZ system in the WRX. |
|
04-13-2016, 06:34 AM | #15 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
Many feel the same way. It's a painful learning curve as the aftermarket manufacturer's catch up with the newer technology the OEM are implementing.
I'd personally not want to run the BRZ 12.5:1 pistons in an engine/head assembly designed for boost with 10.6:1 compression ratio. Can it work? Sure, but you're making decent changes to timing/boost to make it work. In the long run, not the way to go if you want long term longevity. This is just my opinion, not gospel. |
04-20-2016, 06:34 PM | #16 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 407265
Join Date: Nov 2014
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NoVA
|
|
04-20-2016, 06:39 PM | #17 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 395439
Join Date: Jul 2014
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: CA, Fresno
Vehicle:2015 WRX Crystal Black Silica |
Sounds bad ass. Probably be done even before mine haha (*sobs*).
|
04-20-2016, 06:40 PM | #18 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 407265
Join Date: Nov 2014
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NoVA
|
|
04-20-2016, 07:27 PM | #19 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 395439
Join Date: Jul 2014
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: CA, Fresno
Vehicle:2015 WRX Crystal Black Silica |
|
04-21-2016, 10:10 AM | #20 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 295911
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: CT
Vehicle:2015 WRX LR |
Any concluding thoughts on why the rod bearing failed?
|
04-21-2016, 10:29 AM | #21 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 407265
Join Date: Nov 2014
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NoVA
|
Truthfully, none as of yet. Oil pressure has historically been the killer, but so far I haven't seen any indication of blockage yet. Once I actually crack the case open and we can investigate further, I'll update my OP
|
04-21-2016, 11:45 AM | #22 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 423270
Join Date: Jun 2015
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Long Island
Vehicle:2015 WRX (sold) |
Subbed.
How many miles were on it when it failed? EDIT: Never mind saw it was at 14k in the motor fail thread. Last edited by Sillo; 04-21-2016 at 11:52 AM. |
04-21-2016, 03:16 PM | #23 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 424329
Join Date: Jun 2015
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Colorado
Vehicle:2011 Built STI WRB |
u a nova subaru member?
|
04-21-2016, 03:27 PM | #24 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 395439
Join Date: Jul 2014
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: CA, Fresno
Vehicle:2015 WRX Crystal Black Silica |
Will be interesting to compare head work results between my bowl blend and performance valve job to yours.
|
04-21-2016, 03:32 PM | #25 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 407265
Join Date: Nov 2014
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NoVA
|
Yep, Reston Local
It's a bowl blend, but everything is +1mm. Though, I'm also doing springs, rocker pinning, etc. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|