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Old 06-08-2021, 04:18 PM   #626
b4wantab
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Yes, every Subaru engine has high NO emissions. Even the under square 1.6 and 1.8s. While it great they do zero landfill for the plants. Every engine is considered a polluter in Europe. I havenít heard of any JDM problems but I really do not know. I was hopping Toyota would be able to help out. But, that hasnít worked.

The costs and time associated with Eyesight and a CVT canít be the excuse for being behind.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 06-08-2021, 04:18 PM   #627
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
You mean besides the hybrids and forthcoming EV, non-EJ engines, and new platform?
I think he means all the cars that are so dirty that they canít be sold in the EU.
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Old 06-08-2021, 04:47 PM   #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
Yes, every Subaru engine has high NO emissions. Even the under square 1.6 and 1.8s. While it great they do zero landfill for the plants. Every engine is considered a polluter in Europe. I havenít heard of any JDM problems but I really do not know. I was hopping Toyota would be able to help out. But, that hasnít worked.

The costs and time associated with Eyesight and a CVT canít be the excuse for being behind.

Peace,

Greg
I knew CB18 was good to go in terms of fuel consumption; I didn't know Subaru had a NOx issue to deal with.
I thought EGR / cooled EGR was supposed to help with all of this.
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Old 06-08-2021, 05:17 PM   #629
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Ah. I never consider the EU because their numbers have always been relatively small and they're always super strict on emissions. I can't imagine they're high on the priority list for manufacturers outside of the EU.

How well have the Porsche boxer engines fared in the EU?
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Old 06-08-2021, 07:40 PM   #630
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Ah. I never consider the EU because their numbers have always been relatively small and they're always super strict on emissions. I can't imagine they're high on the priority list for manufacturers outside of the EU.

How well have the Porsche boxer engines fared in the EU?
Total EU car sales in 2019 was 15.6M units; total USDM sales that same years was 17M and add 2M for Canada if you'd like.
That's still a lot of potential customers in the EU.
Subaru doesn't sell in Europe mainly because they fell way behind on engine development. But, that should be no surprise to anyone here.
Even Suzuki readily outsells Subaru in Europe; 260K units in the EU in 2019. Suzuki !
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Old 06-08-2021, 09:17 PM   #631
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How well have the Porsche boxer engines fared in the EU?
As well as one would expect from an EU based brand known for world class engineering.
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Old 06-08-2021, 09:39 PM   #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Total EU car sales in 2019 was 15.6M units; total USDM sales that same years was 17M and add 2M for Canada if you'd like.
That's still a lot of potential customers in the EU.
Subaru doesn't sell in Europe mainly because they fell way behind on engine development. But, that should be no surprise to anyone here.
Even Suzuki readily outsells Subaru in Europe; 260K units in the EU in 2019. Suzuki !
I see what you're saying, that Subaru should make an effort to make something that sells in Europe. It's not like there's a lack of people wanting Subarus over there. Besides emissions and fuel efficiency, I think some other shortcomings are size and performance, which would be fixed by offering a sporty hatchback again. I think once they can make an efficient engine and package it well, they'll have more appeal.

Suzuki was a brand that I really wanted to see come into its own in America. My buddy had the Kazashi and Swift and he loved them both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
As well as one would expect from an EU based brand known for world class engineering.
So is Subaru not pouring enough money into their Boxer engines? They've already stated that the engines are super expensive for them, and then afterwards they focus on safety, with everything else trailing behind, especially amenities.
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Old 06-08-2021, 10:05 PM   #633
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Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
Some of it is the hardware. Some is just plain physics because of the frame rails. Either way they are sinking and sinking.

SOA professes to be so green and planet friendly but they are really pretty bad polluters. Plants are great vehicle are horrible. Kind of a shame they donít put a priority on being green.

Peace,

Greg

I definitely don't know anything past many Subaru cars here in America had been PZEV rated for many years until it was standard on the 4 cyl NA. Where do I look to see comparisons? I did a basic search with results I wasn't sure what I was looking at? I wouldn't consider PZEV to be "horrible". But, the marker has been moved to a point that Subaru couldn't use PZEV on their cars anymore. Soooo, again, just not understanding the "horrible" mark.


Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Total EU car sales in 2019 was 15.6M units; total USDM sales that same years was 17M and add 2M for Canada if you'd like.
That's still a lot of potential customers in the EU.
Subaru doesn't sell in Europe mainly because they fell way behind on engine development. But, that should be no surprise to anyone here.
Even Suzuki readily outsells Subaru in Europe; 260K units in the EU in 2019. Suzuki !



Shoot. Not sure all the numbers now; but, when Suzuki pulled out of the U.S., their global sales were still double what Subaru sells globally now. Really good example of the wants of different people around the world.
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Old 06-09-2021, 12:42 AM   #634
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Originally Posted by YungBoba View Post
I don't have much to comment on the transmission itself as I'm not pushing anywhere near enough power to cause it to blow, but the shifter feel is not the greatest. With some mods, it's bearable. I have the shifter bushing, short shift plate, shift stop, and a nice weighted knob. If it came this way from the factory, it'd be okay. My old RSX Type-S has a vastly superior shifter feel in stock form.

Aside from that, the gearing leaves a lot to be desired IMO.
I had a rsx-s and major issues going into 3rd gear. Maybe they fixed that in the later versions but my 2001 was terrible.
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Old 06-09-2021, 08:37 AM   #635
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Originally Posted by h3llsp4wn View Post
I had a rsx-s and major issues going into 3rd gear. Maybe they fixed that in the later versions but my 2001 was terrible.
2002 you mean?

I had a MY02 RSX base, first year of production.
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Old 06-09-2021, 11:42 AM   #636
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2002 was the first MY. I also had a RSX Type S and never had any issues with that car. And I got the first silver one in my geo.
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Old 06-09-2021, 11:46 AM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
2002 was the first MY. I also had a RSX Type S and never had any issues with that car. And I got the first silver one in my geo.
Desert Silver Metallic for me, loved that color.
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Old 06-09-2021, 12:55 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Shoot. Not sure all the numbers now; but, when Suzuki pulled out of the U.S., their global sales were still double what Subaru sells globally now. Really good example of the wants of different people around the world.
Also, here in the US, the typical Subaru's fuel economy penalty is usually just an inconvenience for someone who can afford a new Subaru. In EU, where fuel is 2 to 3 times more expensive than here it is a hard deal breaker for many.
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Old 06-09-2021, 05:02 PM   #639
b4wantab
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I didnít mean to take this so OT. My basic point was that I am tired of the costs involved in eyesight and the CVT being used as an excuse as to why Subaru offers little in the way of products the build a site like this.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:02 AM   #640
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
2002 you mean?

I had a MY02 RSX base, first year of production.
Yes 2002 typo
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:08 AM   #641
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Originally Posted by Pre View Post
2002 was the first MY. I also had a RSX Type S and never had any issues with that car. And I got the first silver one in my geo.
There was a TSB issued for the problem: 02-016 which applies to all 2002-03 RSX models, and 2004 models up to VIN ...12577. As the TSB explains, the problem is attributed to "excessive drag of the 5-6 gearsets, and the hardness of the rubber bushings in the shift cable". The original double-cone synchromeshes on the 5-6 gearset are replaced with newer single-cone synchros, which reduce friction on the other forward gearsets (1-2, 3-4) and should allow for smoother shifts. New shift cables with stiffer bushings are installed to reduce play in the shifter and improve gear engagement.
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:26 AM   #642
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Originally Posted by h3llsp4wn View Post
There was a TSB issued for the problem: 02-016 which applies to all 2002-03 RSX models, and 2004 models up to VIN ...12577. As the TSB explains, the problem is attributed to "excessive drag of the 5-6 gearsets, and the hardness of the rubber bushings in the shift cable". The original double-cone synchromeshes on the 5-6 gearset are replaced with newer single-cone synchros, which reduce friction on the other forward gearsets (1-2, 3-4) and should allow for smoother shifts. New shift cables with stiffer bushings are installed to reduce play in the shifter and improve gear engagement.
Now THAT would be a TSB you really hope one of the original owners had done before it got to you

VA WRX 6-speed.... don't get me started....

on how OK it is to me! Ha! Really mine in particular is nothing special, but not remotely bad. I think the feel can vary a lot from car to car. Mine definitely feels better at 65k miles than an 18 WRX I sat in (didn't drive so can't say for 100% sure.) I also think I have weird taste in shift feel. Always thought myself a snob for good shifter but don't hear a lot of other people talking up the light/buttery shift feel as being their favorite. Most people want the hard/mechanical/notchy. And most people describe WRX as being that way! But mine is light and buttery with subtle hints of notchy, usually only when cold.
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Old 06-11-2021, 08:20 AM   #643
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Originally Posted by fredzy View Post
Now THAT would be a TSB you really hope one of the original owners had done before it got to you

VA WRX 6-speed.... don't get me started....

on how OK it is to me! Ha! Really mine in particular is nothing special, but not remotely bad. I think the feel can vary a lot from car to car. Mine definitely feels better at 65k miles than an 18 WRX I sat in (didn't drive so can't say for 100% sure.) I also think I have weird taste in shift feel. Always thought myself a snob for good shifter but don't hear a lot of other people talking up the light/buttery shift feel as being their favorite. Most people want the hard/mechanical/notchy. And most people describe WRX as being that way! But mine is light and buttery with subtle hints of notchy, usually only when cold.
I am one of those "mechanical notchy" people - I came from "older" mustangs (60's, 90's, early 00's) Toploaders first, then Tremecs (T5, T56) and they were very notchy, rightfully so as the shifter went directly into the top of the trans. My 06 wrx was pretty notchy for a "sideloader" and after I replaced the bushings it was right in that sweet spot for me of mechanically precise without feeling like a chore to shift. When I test drove a 2015 wrx the shifter felt vague in comparison, my wifes 2017 Corolla iM (also a cable shifter) feels about the same. Honda tends to get it more-or-less as right as possible with cable shift systems, some manufacturers don't even though they can; Toyota apparently did a good job with the GR Yaris from the reviews it's getting, and I recall the first re-iteration of the mini being praised for it's shifter feel.
When I Test drove a '20 WRX and a '20 STi more or less back to back, there was a significant difference in shifter feel, I obviously preferred the STi.
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Old 06-11-2021, 09:32 AM   #644
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I am one of those "mechanical notchy" people - I came from "older" mustangs (60's, 90's, early 00's) Toploaders first, then Tremecs (T5, T56) and they were very notchy, rightfully so as the shifter went directly into the top of the trans. My 06 wrx was pretty notchy for a "sideloader" and after I replaced the bushings it was right in that sweet spot for me of mechanically precise without feeling like a chore to shift. When I test drove a 2015 wrx the shifter felt vague in comparison, my wifes 2017 Corolla iM (also a cable shifter) feels about the same. Honda tends to get it more-or-less as right as possible with cable shift systems, some manufacturers don't even though they can; Toyota apparently did a good job with the GR Yaris from the reviews it's getting, and I recall the first re-iteration of the mini being praised for it's shifter feel.
When I Test drove a '20 WRX and a '20 STi more or less back to back, there was a significant difference in shifter feel, I obviously preferred the STi.
I get you 100%. Notchy mechanical feels more substantial.. my car is definitely closer to any given economy car in feel, minus most of the typical rubbery numbness. My 350Z had an OK notchy feel (after going to Redline oil) and I drove an S2000 and thought "ah, so this is what the best feels like."

I had driven several late 90's to mid 2000's VW's and thought they were the absolute worst, but then I drove a new Mk6 GTI. That became my gold standard. Very little notch, very smooth and buttery, low effort but positive sort of engagement plop-in.

STI is definitely an excellent notchy shifter as those go. Like an S2000 but longer, lighter throws? It's probably just that I learn to love what I live with. I'm very curious whether the new WRX will continue to use this setup - I suspect the gearbox is already at the OEM-defined strength/endurance limit of what is acceptable with with the VA's meager HP/TQ so would be a wild but happy thing if they, say, just shared the STI transmission between them oh and also put it in a wagon body WRX too
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Old 06-11-2021, 12:00 PM   #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h3llsp4wn View Post
There was a TSB issued for the problem: 02-016 which applies to all 2002-03 RSX models, and 2004 models up to VIN ...12577. As the TSB explains, the problem is attributed to "excessive drag of the 5-6 gearsets, and the hardness of the rubber bushings in the shift cable". The original double-cone synchromeshes on the 5-6 gearset are replaced with newer single-cone synchros, which reduce friction on the other forward gearsets (1-2, 3-4) and should allow for smoother shifts. New shift cables with stiffer bushings are installed to reduce play in the shifter and improve gear engagement.

Like I said, I never had a problem with that car. The TSB was performed at my Acura dealer during annual inspection/maintenance. I never experienced any of those symptoms just like any other TSB I've had completed on my Honda autos or motorcycles. Back in those days on my Honda sportbikes and cars, Honda was pretty damn good about issuing TSB's, even if it wasn't all production vehicles affected or should I say you weren't experiencing the problem/issue. They'd just proactively knock it out. My Type S was bulletproof.
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