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Old 06-11-2021, 08:12 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
Exactly. This isn't an economy car segment. Nissan got the message and you only need to read the positive buzz created from finally dropping the CVT to realize how much of a burden a CVT is in this segment.

https://carbuzz.com/news/nissan-fina...ggest-problems (fixed biggest problem)

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/ (now more appealing)

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/niss...-drive-review/ (back on the right track)

https://www.wardsauto.com/vehicles/n...oots-loses-cvt (back to roots)
As Chano put it, Just because Nissan has a bad CVT(my retailer also has Nissan and have chatted with a warranty writer), that Subaru's must be bad?

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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
The direction of change of sales doesn't tell you whether or not you're losing potential customers. Subaru has exploded into the mainstream in the past decade thanks to a relationship to Toyota and a public that's bought into some ridiculous idea that Subarus are therefore as reliable as Toyotas. The trend has been upward despite the CVTs.

The folks who came out in droves to buy WRXs 20 years ago are certainly lost to Subaru these days. Sure, there are some hardcore brand whores here, but this is an enthusiast board, but many of us will never buy another Subaru so long as CVTs are all they can offer. The Ascent market space is full of better finished, better driving vehicles that are built on more robust platforms.
You think Subaru's reliability rep and sales is based on their relationship with Toyota?
I know you won't; but, go spend a day at a dealership and survey all the customers that come in and see how many even know that they are partners.

And I'd wager ALL manufacturers have "potentially" lost customers. Just one example I'll use(IMO) the Mustang Mach E. The "enthusiasts" HERE are complaining about that. Subaru is still rated one of the best in loyal customer retention. And it doesn't matter what you think the reason is. They keep coming back. And if the cars were THAT unreliable, I seriously doubt that would happen.
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Old 06-13-2021, 01:29 PM   #27
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And I'd wager ALL manufacturers have "potentially" lost customers. Just one example I'll use(IMO) the Mustang Mach E. The "enthusiasts" HERE are complaining about that. Subaru is still rated one of the best in loyal customer retention. And it doesn't matter what you think the reason is. They keep coming back. And if the cars were THAT unreliable, I seriously doubt that would happen.
Yeah, your idea for examples of anything is to hang around a dealership, NASIOC, and talk to people who are already interested in buying Subarus. That's your bubble and why you're missing the bigger picture.

Browse some non-Subaru-centric arenas for a change. Subaru's current success is an anomaly that will pass as people wake up to the Love & Doggie & Outdoorsy marketing that has nothing to back it up in technology or equipment.
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Old 06-13-2021, 01:47 PM   #28
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By your metric any success is "an anomaly". I don't believe that, though. If something is successful it's because it works, and if it continues to be successful then it continues to work. And it seems to work for a lot of people, just not a lot of enthusiasts.

How long is "current"? Aren't we into 13 years of increasing sales?
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Old 06-13-2021, 06:25 PM   #29
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By your metric any success is "an anomaly". I don't believe that, though. If something is successful it's because it works, and if it continues to be successful then it continues to work. And it seems to work for a lot of people, just not a lot of enthusiasts.

How long is "current"? Aren't we into 13 years of increasing sales?
Subaru's average selling price is just above Hyundai and a few grand higher than Kia, while having a much better brand perception than either of them. The big secret to their success is that Subarus are cheaper than just about everything else.
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Old 06-13-2021, 08:13 PM   #30
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Hyundai and Kia are really stepping up their game these days. I think if Subaru changes the Ascent design a bit and adds some more appealing content then they'll be even more of a consideration. Hopefully the refresh addresses such things.
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Old 06-13-2021, 09:22 PM   #31
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Aren't we into 13 years of increasing sales?
Only in North America. Subaru sales have plummeted nearly everywhere else, even in Japan.

Even with the rosy increasing sales threads, they ignore that the rate of market share increase has been decreasing steadily over the past 5 years. In other words, good growth for a tiny company, but not compared with growth of the market as a whole.
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Old 06-14-2021, 05:34 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Only in North America. Subaru sales have plummeted nearly everywhere else, even in Japan.

Even with the rosy increasing sales threads, they ignore that the rate of market share increase has been decreasing steadily over the past 5 years. In other words, good growth for a tiny company, but not compared with growth of the market as a whole.
The sky is falling. The sky is falling.

Subaru is going out of business.

Jesus, what a calamity.

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Old 06-14-2021, 06:44 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Only in North America. Subaru sales have plummeted nearly everywhere else, even in Japan.

Even with the rosy increasing sales threads, they ignore that the rate of market share increase has been decreasing steadily over the past 5 years. In other words, good growth for a tiny company, but not compared with growth of the market as a whole.
Aaahhh... I wished I lived in other markets. Especially Japan.

Levorg.
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Old 06-14-2021, 10:33 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Yeah, your idea for examples of anything is to hang around a dealership, NASIOC, and talk to people who are already interested in buying Subarus. That's your bubble and why you're missing the bigger picture.

Browse some non-Subaru-centric arenas for a change. Subaru's current success is an anomaly that will pass as people wake up to the Love & Doggie & Outdoorsy marketing that has nothing to back it up in technology or equipment.
How did you go from "people buy subaru cause toyota" to "don't ask the people coming to buy subaru if they know about their ties to toyota"?

And people are not buying Subaru's for "technology and equipment". They are buying it for safety, longevity, and AWD. We recently had a snow storm of the century and after had a big influx of people saying "I don't ever want to be stuck like that again". Crazy-ish because we typically only get a half day of snow a year. The technology is enough for the vast majority. Yeah, they are behind; but, never soo far as to be completely overlooked and then their other attributes usually win out. You also have to think of how it feels in the car. Yeah, I know you hate the seats; but, still think you are in the minority on that(not saying you are wrong).

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Subaru's average selling price is just above Hyundai and a few grand higher than Kia, while having a much better brand perception than either of them. The big secret to their success is that Subarus are cheaper than just about everything else.
Value. You can buy "better" in any particular catagory; but, as I have said many times, there is nothing out there that offers EVERYTHING Subaru does at the price Subaru offers it.

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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Only in North America. Subaru sales have plummeted nearly everywhere else, even in Japan.

Even with the rosy increasing sales threads, they ignore that the rate of market share increase has been decreasing steadily over the past 5 years. In other words, good growth for a tiny company, but not compared with growth of the market as a whole.
Are you referring to global market share? Or here in the states? Cause the market share here has steadily increased. And as much as it may suck the rest of the world is dropping, what does that matter to us if we are steadily increasing?

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Old 06-14-2021, 01:14 PM   #35
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Value. You can buy "better" in any particular catagory; but, as I have said many times, there is nothing out there that offers EVERYTHING Subaru does at the price Subaru offers it.
I wasn't trying to belittle Subaru here. They've been very conscious of their MSRPs and have kept a lid on their prices. Until the Ascent, it was hard to get a Subaru MSRP over $40k. Meanwhile, the average selling price of a new car is closing in on $40k. Subaru is still attainable for average people.
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Old 06-14-2021, 01:16 PM   #36
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I would want to know how a global company is doing over-all not just in one market. Again, just because sales are up here, let's just gloss over the last 12 months, doesn't mean the company is healthy or sound.

Why do so many get their shorts bunched up when someone points out that there is more out there than the US sales to show the full picture.

As stated, Subaru's market share world-wide has shrunk, they are getting hammered with smog tariffs in the EU. Profitability has been dropping for the last 5 years, don't know about 2019 though. How is any of that good?

It is great that sales are strong in the US but, don't you think that some of the clean-air regulations will start to standardize world-wide? Don't you think after a few years they would get a handle on warranty costs here?

Peace,

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Old 06-14-2021, 02:11 PM   #37
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https://www.motor1.com/news/513906/2...-onyx-edition/

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Shortly after teasing the 2022 Subaru Ascent Onyx Edition, the brand is now fully debuting the more rugged-looking model. Prices for it start at $37,995 (plus a $1,125 destination fee).

The Ascent Onyx Edition slots between the Premium grade for $36,255 and the Limited for $39,595. The Onyx has all of the equipment from the Premium, including blind-spot detection, rear cross-traffic alert, body-color mirrors, eight-way power driver seat, second-row automatic climate control, heated front seats, heated mirrors, and a windshield wiper de-icer.


The Onyx adds black exterior trim, including the badges and black 20-inch wheels. The cabin has Subaru's StarTex® water-repellant material for the upholstery and a heated steering wheel. The model also comes with reverse automatic braking, hands-free power hatchback, keyless access with push-button start. The model only comes in a seven-seat configuration, whereas other grades are available with space for eight people


The Onyx is available with a single option package that costs $2,200. It includes a panoramic moonroof, a navigation system for the 6.5-inch Starlink infotainment tech, and a retractable cargo cover.
Subaru Ascent


The Onyx uses the same powertrain as other versions of the Ascent. The 2.4-liter flat-four engine makes 260 horsepower (194 kilowatts) and 277 pound-feet (376 Newton-meters) of torque. It runs through a CVT to an all-wheel-drive system. The crossover can tow up to 5,000 pounds (2,268 kilograms).
2022 Subaru Ascent Pricing
Trim Level Price (Excluding $1,125 Destination)
Ascent 8 passenger $32,295
Ascent Premium 8 passenger $34,795
Ascent Premium 7 passenger $36,255
Ascent Onyx Edition 7 passenger $37,995
Ascent Limited 8 passenger $39,595
Ascent Limited 7 passenger $39,595
Ascent Touring 7 passenger $45,445
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:35 PM   #38
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I wasn't trying to belittle Subaru here. They've been very conscious of their MSRPs and have kept a lid on their prices. Until the Ascent, it was hard to get a Subaru MSRP over $40k. Meanwhile, the average selling price of a new car is closing in on $40k. Subaru is still attainable for average people.
Sorry. Didn't think you were. Was just adding to your point.

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I would want to know how a global company is doing over-all not just in one market. Again, just because sales are up here, let's just gloss over the last 12 months, doesn't mean the company is healthy or sound.

Why do so many get their shorts bunched up when someone points out that there is more out there than the US sales to show the full picture.

As stated, Subaru's market share world-wide has shrunk, they are getting hammered with smog tariffs in the EU. Profitability has been dropping for the last 5 years, don't know about 2019 though. How is any of that good?

It is great that sales are strong in the US but, don't you think that some of the clean-air regulations will start to standardize world-wide? Don't you think after a few years they would get a handle on warranty costs here?

Peace,

Greg
Interesting topic considering Subaru Corporation sold off a couple of their other divisions. Now, it was alluded to the success of their auto division and the focus on that; but, maybe that was rhetoric and they "needed" to financially?

There's nothing to hint that this bubble is about to burst. EVEN with the issues of the past year, they keep breaking records. As long as they can add something here and there to keep things "fresh". Problem for "NASIOC" is, it's not the fresh they want. And, I agree. I want certain things as well. My soon to come decision of a Forester or Outback will likely come down to a turbo option. If this, what looks to be extensive, 2022 Forester mid-cycle update comes with a turbo(for the Wilderness), I have an easy decision. If not, I have a bit more thinking as I WILL be getting the next STI as well.....
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:36 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
I would want to know how a global company is doing over-all not just in one market. Again, just because sales are up here, let's just gloss over the last 12 months, doesn't mean the company is healthy or sound.

Why do so many get their shorts bunched up when someone points out that there is more out there than the US sales to show the full picture.

As stated, Subaru's market share world-wide has shrunk, they are getting hammered with smog tariffs in the EU. Profitability has been dropping for the last 5 years, don't know about 2019 though. How is any of that good?

It is great that sales are strong in the US but, don't you think that some of the clean-air regulations will start to standardize world-wide? Don't you think after a few years they would get a handle on warranty costs here?

Peace,

Greg
Well the US market is arguably the most lucrative and that's by far Subaru's best market so they will be okay for the next decade or so. You would think Canada would be a really good market for Subaru but curiously they don't do great in Canada as they barely sell more cars than Mercedes so their global outlook is not very good at all. IMO at this point Subaru has already peaked and will go down a slow decline as once all vehicles are EV there will be nothing unique about a Subaru as Symmetrical AWD will be dead and boxer engines a relic of the past. Most automakers will offer dual motor AWD vehicles and the only differentiation amongst most vehicles will be styling which has never been a Subaru strong point.
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:49 PM   #40
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I really wish a search for how many times people "predict" Subaru's downfall would be easier. Sounds soo much to me like the climate folks 15-20 years ago. "By 20xx, were gonna be under water."
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:03 PM   #41
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Sure, we get an Onyx edition, but what about the Graveler edition?
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Old 06-14-2021, 04:12 PM   #42
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Well the US market is arguably the most lucrative and that's by far Subaru's best market so they will be okay for the next decade or so. You would think Canada would be a really good market for Subaru but curiously they don't do great in Canada as they barely sell more cars than Mercedes so their global outlook is not very good at all. IMO at this point Subaru has already peaked and will go down a slow decline as once all vehicles are EV there will be nothing unique about a Subaru as Symmetrical AWD will be dead and boxer engines a relic of the past. Most automakers will offer dual motor AWD vehicles and the only differentiation amongst most vehicles will be styling which has never been a Subaru strong point.
Most mainstream people don't even know how a boxer engine works or what symmetrical AWD really means. Most segments that Subaru "dominated" with the only AWD option now have plenty of AWD competition. Style is subjective and really hasn't stopped Subaru sales. Actually, a key selling point for Subarus is their outward visibility, usually sacrificing sleek style. Technically, Symmetrical AWD will still be true with EV Subaru's.

What is going to still matter once EV's come around is the individual programming of the AWD system (i.e. torque vectoring, mechanical vs brake based, off-road, mud, sand, track, bias, default split). EV's can provide quite a bit of flexibility here.

To say Subaru will decline once EV's are mainstream can be said with any brand. It's not like the Leaf, Bolt, Niro EV, Kona EV are very attractive vehicles anyways. Not everyone likes the Kia EV6 or Ioniq 5 or Tesla's. It's going come down to execution of the vehicle as a whole and other unique features.
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:16 PM   #43
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Or, for some of us, keeping and maintaining whatever ICE they have, and moving to whatever ICE is available when that goes, new or used.

Cause I ain't never gonna EV.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:40 PM   #44
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Or, for some of us, keeping and maintaining whatever ICE they have, and moving to whatever ICE is available when that goes, new or used.

Cause I ain't never gonna EV.
do YoU reaLIze hoW iGNoRAntLy JUVEnile yoU ActuAlLy sound??
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:39 AM   #45
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do YoU reaLIze hoW iGNoRAntLy JUVEnile yoU ActuAlLy sound??
Teenagers never do unfortunately.
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