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Old 09-30-2015, 10:31 AM   #176
bindsti
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Originally Posted by mishapopa View Post
Try to get a more recent ECU software from Subaru. They did mine under warranty, there's like 4 threads about this.

Since I got the update I noticed the throttle is much more linear, rev hang is much less, car isn't jumpy, no power dips at higher revs, not as much overboost, and although I've never actually had knock, no knock.

I actually find myself rarely going into boost now, if I want to boost to 16+ PSI I have to practically WOT. So I'm getting a smooth ride and excellent fuel economy city driving (7-8L/100KM).

For reference the ECU software I have is PAK# 22465AG233 dated October 2014. You should be able to get a newer one now. I think the original tune kills our engines.

Here's the thread I was able to dig up: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...postcount=1442
I haven't really had any audible knocking events yet. Do you think it's still worth it to get the update? I bought my car in January and I'm not exactly sure when it was built/what version the ECU is running.
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Old 09-30-2015, 10:35 AM   #177
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Just as a rough estimate I would say we have around 40K FA20DIT motors in the wild in the US if you factor in the WRX and Forester XT. Not a trivial amount since the engine has only been out a few years.
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Old 09-30-2015, 10:53 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by bindsti View Post
I haven't really had any audible knocking events yet. Do you think it's still worth it to get the update? I bought my car in January and I'm not exactly sure when it was built/what version the ECU is running.
Best way to find out is to see if 25% throttle input corresponds to 100% throttle valve position. In other words, if your throttle it touchy as hell, you're probably on the old software.

Like I said, I never had any pinging even with the old software. I asked for the update because I read somewhere that it's practically equivalent to a stage 1 Cobb tune which everyone was going on about. Asked my dealer, they flashed it in 5 minutes, car feels much better. Taking off from first gear doesn't lurch forward and changing to second is smooth.
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:12 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by mishapopa View Post
I asked for the update because I read somewhere that it's practically equivalent to a stage 1 Cobb tune which everyone was going on about. Asked my dealer, they flashed it in 5 minutes, car feels much better. Taking off from first gear doesn't lurch forward and changing to second is smooth.
Sold. Making appointment today.
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:14 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by mishapopa View Post
Try to get a more recent ECU software from Subaru. They did mine under warranty, there's like 4 threads about this.



Since I got the update I noticed the throttle is much more linear, rev hang is much less, car isn't jumpy, no power dips at higher revs, not as much overboost, and although I've never actually had knock, no knock.



I actually find myself rarely going into boost now, if I want to boost to 16+ PSI I have to practically WOT. So I'm getting a smooth ride and excellent fuel economy city driving (7-8L/100KM).



For reference the ECU software I have is PAK# 22465AG233 dated October 2014. You should be able to get a newer one now. I think the original tune kills our engines.



Here's the thread I was able to dig up: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...postcount=1442

I have that flash.

Apparently there is one newer one, too.

Car still feels like dog dudu. We will see if it gets better in the cooler weather
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:30 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Pracata View Post
Yes the trans was the week link but the trans still lasted over 20,000 miles of hard driving .then again some of these fa engines are not even going past 20000 miles and there engines are already blowing .it's sad too have a brand new car with such low miles and already giving problems

It's sad because I really like the looks of the subie and the new wrx is pretty comfy and I like it's handling but the heart of the car(engine) it's what gets me frustrated
I'm currently at 32000 miles on my wrx. I just change the oil every 3750 miles (I beat the cap out of my car), and fill her up with shell gas from the same 3 stations. Plus I've been stage 2 for about 8k now.
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:31 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by miyagi View Post
I started to get a bit paranoid myself about going stage 2+ but then remembered I...
1. Educate myself as much as possible before going down a certain mod path and install the proper supporting mods
2. Research the best oil to use along w/ the recommended interval for the mods I have
3. Really only get the chance to take it above 4k if I'm getting on the highway or not driving in traffic (hardly ever happens).
4. Go to the same gas station and get the same gas

I honestly thought I drove my car hard until I read some stories on here and realized I only do occasional 'spirited' driving. I really need to look into some autoX events in my area so I can let the car stretch its legs.
All good things to consider and practice. Since you live in KC, I'd suggest running nothing other than BP 93 from newer BP stations. Also, run Castrol 0W30 Euro for solid year-round protection.

With that said, once you mod these cars, all bets are off. Chances are you'll be fine assuming Stage 2 or below mods. Even then though, you need to come to terms with the fact that the motor can let go and you'd better have $6K-8K readily available to fix the motor in the event Subaru doesn't warranty the work or Good Will it.

People seem to loose sight that Stage 2 mods tend to increase power over stock by 20-30% HP/TQ. That's huge, not matter what the engine. Secondly, these are small turbo motors making V8-like power, especially torque. Strong low rpm torque on small rods and small pistons is very taxing. High HP at high rpm is FAR less taxing on a motor. It would be far better for these turbo motors to delay/lessen the turbo ramp up in the lower rpms.

I'd never do Stage 2 on the FA or EJ. A quality, not overly aggressive Stage 1 tune and the rest spent on suspension, tires, creature comforts, and unique mods is the way to go in my book. If you want faster, then buy a faster car. If you start auto-xing, you'll understand why power isn't everything.
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:51 AM   #183
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If you want faster, then buy a faster car. If you start auto-xing, you'll understand why power isn't everything.
That's the thing. Most of these owners want to show off on the streets. They bought the wrong car.
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Old 09-30-2015, 12:13 PM   #184
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All good things to consider and practice. Since you live in KC, I'd suggest running nothing other than BP 93 from newer BP stations. Also, run Castrol 0W30 Euro for solid year-round protection.

With that said, once you mod these cars, all bets are off. Chances are you'll be fine assuming Stage 2 or below mods. Even then though, you need to come to terms with the fact that the motor can let go and you'd better have $6K-8K readily available to fix the motor in the event Subaru doesn't warranty the work or Good Will it.

People seem to loose sight that Stage 2 mods tend to increase power over stock by 20-30% HP/TQ. That's huge, not matter what the engine. Secondly, these are small turbo motors making V8-like power, especially torque. Strong low rpm torque on small rods and small pistons is very taxing. High HP at high rpm is FAR less taxing on a motor. It would be far better for these turbo motors to delay/lessen the turbo ramp up in the lower rpms.

I'd never do Stage 2 on the FA or EJ. A quality, not overly aggressive Stage 1 tune and the rest spent on suspension, tires, creature comforts, and unique mods is the way to go in my book. If you want faster, then buy a faster car. If you start auto-xing, you'll understand why power isn't everything.
It's plenty of power for me and I will now be focusing on suspension and dress up mods. Like I said, I barely get a chance to enjoy the acceleration anyway. But just the few pulls I've been able to do with it provide me with more than enough oomph.

And yeah all I put in my car is BP 93. I've only done 1 oil change so far and decided to run 3100 x-clean.
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Old 09-30-2015, 02:04 PM   #185
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I'm currently making 300whp just fine. Why? Because I'm a competent owner that did the research and I don't drive the car like Its indestructible. Subarus are known for their reliability. I owned a 2004 Wrx wagon for seven years from 19k to 140k with absolutely ZERO issues. That car was the reason I bought my '16.

But hey, you seem to know everything about these cars so go ahead and do you. That Wrx is probably better off in someone else's hands anyway.
What mods are running for 300whp?
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Old 09-30-2015, 03:42 PM   #186
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What mods are running for 300whp?
Catless TBE
Charge pipe
GrimmSpeed stealthbox intake
DW 65c fuel pump
3-port EBCS
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Old 09-30-2015, 04:08 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by miyagi View Post
Catless TBE
Charge pipe
GrimmSpeed stealthbox intake
DW 65c fuel pump
3-port EBCS
congrats on the 300whp. 93oct? who tuned it and do you graph? feel free to pm me as to not clutter this thread.
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Old 09-30-2015, 04:54 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by miyagi View Post
I'm currently making 300whp just fine. Why? Because I'm a competent owner that did the research and I don't drive the car like Its indestructible. Subarus are known for their reliability. I owned a 2004 Wrx wagon for seven years from 19k to 140k with absolutely ZERO issues. That car was the reason I bought my '16.

But hey, you seem to know everything about these cars so go ahead and do you. That Wrx is probably better off in someone else's hands anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miyagi View Post
Catless TBE
Charge pipe
GrimmSpeed stealthbox intake
DW 65c fuel pump
3-port EBCS
Nice! Thanks for sharing. I have the Grimmspeed intake and EBCS as well. Looking forward to adding those. How do you like the sound on the intake?
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:10 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by miyagi View Post
Catless TBE
Charge pipe
GrimmSpeed stealthbox intake
DW 65c fuel pump
3-port EBCS
As you will all notice he has a fuel pump upgrade. This is something I will be doing also with just a little more power, at this time I am stg 2 with a protune safer map when I put on an ebcs and intercooler with a charge pipe I will drop in the fuel pump which I still think is the major cause of many people issues, to much power and tuned to the max and fuel pump cannot keep up.
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:10 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by bindsti View Post
Sold. Making appointment today.
Not sure what dealer you will be going to but I know people had issues having some dealers install the flash. If you have any issues, shoot me a PM and I can get you squared away.
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Old 09-30-2015, 10:07 PM   #191
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As you will all notice he has a fuel pump upgrade. This is something I will be doing also with just a little more power, at this time I am stg 2 with a protune safer map when I put on an ebcs and intercooler with a charge pipe I will drop in the fuel pump which I still think is the major cause of many people issues, to much power and tuned to the max and fuel pump cannot keep up.
Yeah, not too many builds out there with an upgraded pump. Aren't the injectors rated for 750cc? I think people make the mistake thinking "my injectors are adequate, so is my OEM pump."
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:58 PM   #192
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Yeah, not too many builds out there with an upgraded pump. Aren't the injectors rated for 750cc? I think people make the mistake thinking "my injectors are adequate, so is my OEM pump."
I think there is a general lack of understanding about this new fuel system. It is not just a pump and injectors. There are people running Stage 2 with E85 with the OEM fuel pump. That is a LOT of extra fuel supply. It seems strange that the fuel system can supply this amount of fuel on the dyno but then certain conditions arise where it cant keep up (reportedly).

There are also reports of people with the upgraded fuel pump but still having issues.
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Old 10-01-2015, 06:54 AM   #193
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I think there is a general lack of understanding about this new fuel system. It is not just a pump and injectors. There are people running Stage 2 with E85 with the OEM fuel pump. That is a LOT of extra fuel supply. It seems strange that the fuel system can supply this amount of fuel on the dyno but then certain conditions arise where it cant keep up (reportedly).

There are also reports of people with the upgraded fuel pump but still having issues.
Being on the dyno and being out in the wild w/ wind drag at 90+ are two different things. There's more load on the engine to get it to accelerate (at least that's what my trivial knowledge of physics makes me think).

I was having fuel issues w/ just a stage 1 map so I figured better safe than sorry. It's only $150. I'll probably be looking into a TMIC in the spring or maybe once my tax return hits.
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Old 10-01-2015, 08:16 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by miyagi View Post
Being on the dyno and being out in the wild w/ wind drag at 90+ are two different things. There's more load on the engine to get it to accelerate (at least that's what my trivial knowledge of physics makes me think).



I was having fuel issues w/ just a stage 1 map so I figured better safe than sorry. It's only $150. I'll probably be looking into a TMIC in the spring or maybe once my tax return hits.

Interesting that you were having fueling issues on just 93. First I have heard of this
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Old 10-01-2015, 08:38 AM   #195
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I was using MAPerformance's 'ots' tune. Fuel issues were only experienced around 6400 rpm in 3rd and 4th gear at wot
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:25 AM   #196
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I was using MAPerformance's 'ots' tune. Fuel issues were only experienced around 6400 rpm in 3rd and 4th gear at wot
Are you saying those fueling issues completely disappeared after you installed the pump?
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:30 AM   #197
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I'm currently making 300whp just fine. Why? Because I'm a competent owner that did the research and I don't drive the car like Its indestructible.
I'm at similar power level on stage 2 and ACN 91 and no issues so far. My tuner told me to get a pump if I wanted E85 and now I'm just waiting for Cobb to release flex fuel. I like to keep an eye on the vitals because I get bit of knock if its 100+ outside(all summer long in AZ) while cruising with my a/c and crappy gas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mishapopa View Post
Try to get a more recent ECU software from Subaru. They did mine under warranty, there's like 4 threads about this.

Since I got the update I noticed the throttle is much more linear, rev hang is much less, car isn't jumpy, no power dips at higher revs, not as much overboost, and although I've never actually had knock, no knock.

I actually find myself rarely going into boost now, if I want to boost to 16+ PSI I have to practically WOT. So I'm getting a smooth ride and excellent fuel economy city driving.
Pretty much what mishapopa said. I had my tuner adjust the throttle response to make it more linear. No WOT at 30% throttle crap. I pretty much got to have the pedal down if I want high boost. People have to get to learn what the car/tune likes or the way it behaves. My car does not like cruising at low 2-3k rpms and high gears too much. I can see it detect knock if I do that. I would advise not to smash the pedal doing 60mph in 6th gear. Pretty sure the car hates it. No problems if I downshift and go.
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Old 10-01-2015, 08:41 PM   #198
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Model/Year: 2015 WRX 6spd manual

Milage: 4500 miles

EM: Cobb AP stg 1

Mods: Stock OEM

Fuel: 91

Oil: Stock OEM

Circumstances: Tuner was on the dyno, doing the last pull on a custom stage 1 Protune and all of a sudden, around 5500 RPM the cars power starting giving out and the tuner let off, at that time water temps were normal at 90 deg C, Dyno fans were on, A/F was proper, No knock events, 16 psi boost. A second later after the tuner let off and was coasting down the water temp shot up to 108 deg C and the car died, water coming out the exhaust.

Actual engine failure: Water pump seized, caused the engine to overheat and blew a head gasket that allowed coolant to go into the combustion chamber and hydrolocked the engine. No one knows why the internal water pump seized, but it is a new design, so who knows.
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Old 10-02-2015, 09:37 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by sidesleeper View Post
Model/Year: 2015 WRX 6spd manual

Milage: 4500 miles

EM: Cobb AP stg 1

Mods: Stock OEM

Fuel: 91

Oil: Stock OEM

Circumstances: Tuner was on the dyno, doing the last pull on a custom stage 1 Protune and all of a sudden, around 5500 RPM the cars power starting giving out and the tuner let off, at that time water temps were normal at 90 deg C, Dyno fans were on, A/F was proper, No knock events, 16 psi boost. A second later after the tuner let off and was coasting down the water temp shot up to 108 deg C and the car died, water coming out the exhaust.

Actual engine failure: Water pump seized, caused the engine to overheat and blew a head gasket that allowed coolant to go into the combustion chamber and hydrolocked the engine. No one knows why the internal water pump seized, but it is a new design, so who knows.
Warranty that ****
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:41 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by sidesleeper View Post
Model/Year: 2015 WRX 6spd manual

Milage: 4500 miles

EM: Cobb AP stg 1

Mods: Stock OEM

Fuel: 91

Oil: Stock OEM

Circumstances: Tuner was on the dyno, doing the last pull on a custom stage 1 Protune and all of a sudden, around 5500 RPM the cars power starting giving out and the tuner let off, at that time water temps were normal at 90 deg C, Dyno fans were on, A/F was proper, No knock events, 16 psi boost. A second later after the tuner let off and was coasting down the water temp shot up to 108 deg C and the car died, water coming out the exhaust.

Actual engine failure: Water pump seized, caused the engine to overheat and blew a head gasket that allowed coolant to go into the combustion chamber and hydrolocked the engine. No one knows why the internal water pump seized, but it is a new design, so who knows.
I've had a lot of cars... and have fair understanding now of water pumps. Water pumps' bearings wear out after long use, lack of maintenance of the coolant system, specifically not ensuring the coolant fluid has adequate lubricant for the water pump bearing.

The only way a water pump seizes is that bearing (neglecting a foreign object in the impeller). Only one of a finite few reasons. Shouldn't be that hard to figure out. Whatever answer, doubt any warranty covers engines that failed on a dyno.
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