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Old 07-09-2019, 07:44 PM   #26
chanomatik
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Yeah one of my good buddies contracted a disease that left him with a permanent limp. He can't drive a car unless it has hand controls installed. He prefers the raised vehicles I've had/have (Forester/Crosstrek) because they're just easier on his one good leg.

My mom's really short and prefers the Crosstrek because it's higher up and easier for her to see the road. Even with lifting up the seat in the Impreza, it's not as confidence-inspiring for her.

The only people who've really appreciated my lower Impreza from a non-"performance" () standpoint are the occasional short, elderly, 90+ year old friends I've assisted with rides to appointments and such.

Pre, kinda disappointed at your narrow view of people. I don't even know how infrequently I've seen obese Crosstrek owners. It's really the ground clearance that's appealing. Easier to park without worrying about scraping the bumper on the curb or parking divider.

Have you not had your protein shake today, Sir?
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:55 PM   #27
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And Crosstek is for people who want the SUV/CUV look and want it cheap. It's an image car because it doesn't have enough power to do dick off road. It remains the funniest Subaru I have ever seen. A got damn Impreza with a lift kit.
They're not cheap, my in-laws got a Crosstrek Limited, it was like $29k. Crazy. They got it over the Impreza cause they're old and it's easier to climb into. That's about the only reason to buy it.
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:15 PM   #28
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Yeah at that point just get a lower trim Ascent. Or a Forester. At invoice.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:19 AM   #29
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That's beside the point of what you said. Your statement basically says the Crosstrek is not capable of being offroad. That is inaccurate.

The other part I am sure is the excuse for some people; but, in general?.....well, whatever you want to believe I guess.
So you think the Crossroad is a rock crawler?
Define offroad, some dirt road? Real off road capability means lockers, diffs, a drivetrain meant for it. The Crosstek doesn't have much power. Many people calling it gutless. You could take a lot vehicles offload on the market, doesn't mean it's real bright or meant for it. Your buddies make me laugh. What happens offroad when you get stuck in mud in that thing? You better hope someone else is around to pull you out because the Crosstek doesn't have any real power. It's underpowered. Pretty obvious it wasn't designed to do anything but superficial off road like a dirt or gravel road. That's about it. It's a lifted Impreza and always has been.

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Pre, kinda disappointed at your narrow view of people. I don't even know how infrequently I've seen obese Crosstrek owners. It's really the ground clearance that's appealing. Easier to park without worrying about scraping the bumper on the curb or parking divider.
Zero F's given, honestly. You need to use your mind. For decades and decades and decades this was not an issue. People weren't whining like little snowflakes that your common passenger car was hard to climb into or sit in.

So you are saying they buy it because they cannot park a passenger vehicle without scraping the bumper on a curb? I guess you fail to see the senility in that.

There are always going to be examples of disable people and no I'm not talking about them or anyone with a legit need for something like this. Only a cold hearted SOB would look down upon them. I have friends in the same situation who drive truck/SUV for this reason. And I have lost someone very close to me 10 years ago, and another just a few weeks ago. But you know that is not the common buyer at all. That's small percentage of buyers. I know a Subaru salesman here very well. Most buy it for image and that's all. It looks "offroad", all show and no go. Most never see offroad. They are parked at the mall or going through a Starbucks or sack meal window drive through, extremely superficial. That was the point. Alaska isn't the continental US. Hell I understand people up north who need ground clearance for snow driving too. But the car is still gutless. Rub on your Subaru underoos, it will be Ok.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:19 AM   #30
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And Crosstek is for people who want the SUV/CUV look and want it cheap. It's an image car because it doesn't have enough power to do dick off road. It remains the funniest Subaru I have ever seen. A got damn Impreza with a lift kit.
Haha, you obviously have never driven the new Crosstrek off-road. We have a very rough road to our cabin and have owned and driven many different vehicles there incl 4WD trucks, Jeeps and other SUVs. My Crosstrek handles it better than all of them.

It is much smoother over the bumps, holes and washboard which means I can make better time on that road. There a couple of very steep hills which are deeply rutted by trucks that have trouble there. They need to take a momentum run and still slide into the ruts digging them deeper. My Crosstrek in X-Mode (which really is the greatest thing for steep off-road) just walks up those same hills with barely a slip. And definitely no lack of power for off-road. That myth just keeps getting perpetuated by those who don't understand how X-mode works, and obviously have no experience with real off-road.

I have slightly oversize K02s (225X65X17) on stock rims (no lift and no rubbing) which gives me 9.1" clearance. That is better than most stock trucks as well.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:25 AM   #31
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Haha, you obviously have never driven the new Crosstrek off-road. We have a very rough road to our cabin and have owned and driven many different vehicles there incl 4WD trucks, Jeeps and other SUVs. My Crosstrek handles it better than all of them.

It is much smoother over the bumps, holes and washboard which means I can make better time on that road. There a couple of very steep hills which are deeply rutted by trucks that have trouble there. They need to take a momentum run and still slide into the ruts digging them deeper. My Crosstrek in X-Mode (which really is the greatest thing for steep off-road) just walks up those same hills with barely a slip. And definitely no lack of power for off-road. That myth just keeps getting perpetuated by those who don't understand how X-mode works, and obviously have no experience with real off-road.

I have slightly oversize K02s (225X65X17) on stock rims (no lift and no rubbing) which gives me 9.1" clearance. That is better than most stock trucks as well.
I've driven off road many times. Got a group of friends with modified Tacos and Jeeps that I try to go with when I can. Lots of vehicles up there. I have seen Subarus but no Crossteks. There is one guy who drives a 3.6 OB that is jacked up for more ground clearance and a rack to carry all his gear. Like I said prior, a gravel or dirt road. Oh my, if that's real off-road to you, more power to you. That is definitely not what I'm talking about.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:47 AM   #32
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I've driven off road many times. Got a group of friends with modified Tacos and Jeeps that I try to go with when I can. Lots of vehicles up there. I have seen Subarus but no Crossteks. There is one guy who drives a 3.6 OB that is jacked up for more ground clearance and a rack to carry all his gear. Like I said prior, a gravel or dirt road. Oh my, if that's real off-road to you, more power to you. That is definitely not what I'm talking about.
You can't compare old Subaru's (pre-2018) to the new ones. Big diff with the new platform and suspension. My son has a 2009 Forester, and while pretty good, can't do what my Crosstrek does off-road.

I just came back from a trip way up north in BC (with a short trip into AK). Up there you see mostly trucks (for obvious reasons), some SUVs, and a surprisingly number of Subaru's. Most were the new Crosstrek, and some Foresters, and a few Outbacks. I don't know where they even buy these, because there are not a lot of Subaru dealers up there. But the real surprise was almost no Jeeps (Wranglers). We noticed the lack of them, and started looking. We counted a total of 3 up there the whole time we were there. We see more than that back home in the city in 5 min on the road. Seems the Wrangler has become more of a status city car than a real used off-road vehicle.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:49 AM   #33
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So you think the Crossroad is a rock crawler?
Define offroad, some dirt road? Real off road capability means lockers, diffs, a drivetrain meant for it. The Crosstek doesn't have much power. Many people calling it gutless. You could take a lot vehicles offload on the market, doesn't mean it's real bright or meant for it. Your buddies make me laugh. What happens offroad when you get stuck in mud in that thing? You better hope someone else is around to pull you out because the Crosstek doesn't have any real power. It's underpowered. Pretty obvious it wasn't designed to do anything but superficial off road like a dirt or gravel road. That's about it. It's a lifted Impreza and always has been.



Zero F's given, honestly. You need to use your mind. For decades and decades and decades this was not an issue. People weren't whining like little snowflakes that your common passenger car was hard to climb into or sit in.

So you are saying they buy it because they cannot park a passenger vehicle without scraping the bumper on a curb? I guess you fail to see the senility in that.

There are always going to be examples of disable people and no I'm not talking about them or anyone with a legit need for something like this. Only a cold hearted SOB would look down upon them. I have friends in the same situation who drive truck/SUV for this reason. And I have lost someone very close to me 10 years ago, and another just a few weeks ago. But you know that is not the common buyer at all. That's small percentage of buyers. I know a Subaru salesman here very well. Most buy it for image and that's all. It looks "offroad", all show and no go. Most never see offroad. They are parked at the mall or going through a Starbucks or sack meal window drive through, extremely superficial. That was the point. Alaska isn't the continental US. Hell I understand people up north who need ground clearance for snow driving too. But the car is still gutless. Rub on your Subaru underoos, it will be Ok.
Definitely agree with you on the off-road part. I wouldn't really "off-road" a Crosstrek.

People drove cars differently back in the day because it's about what's available to them. My mom drove manual transmission cars for years. Don't think she ever had to replace a clutch because she learned to shift smoothly. Still, when she was looking at getting a new Tacoma I asked if she'd get the manual and said she preferred the automatic because she didn't really feel like shifting her own gears.

Maybe you consider it "lazy" that people are driving raised, automatic transmission vehicles. I see it as people having bigger things in their lives to worry about, especially now more than ever. I'm not gonna knock someone for trying to simplify their life. It ain't the 80's anymore, no matter how many seasons of Stranger Things are a hit.

Cars are more expensive to repair now, especially with the specialized paint and bendable plastics that shatter when it's cold outside. Maybe you want all cars to go back to chrome bumpers with rubber cart-pushers? I mean, we're already kind of there because the Crosstrek offers plastic cladding that the Impreza doesn't, so when there are scrapes it's really not a big deal. In that sense I figured you'd praise the Crosstrek!

And I don't presume to know that most Crosstrek buyers are whiny babies. That's just a weird assumption to make of people, in my opinion. Maybe if you could get people to watch less Netflix or movies or eat out at less restaurants or stop working desk jobs, then they'd invest in lowered cars that aren't as comfortable to get in and out of. But they'd be okay with that discomfort because their backs aren't being tweaked by the things I mentioned. I know for me I didn't mine having my BRZ because I always stayed pretty active, but it was torture for anyone else who wasn't as active as me. Young people loved it, but older people not so much.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:56 AM   #34
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You can't compare old Subaru's (pre-2018) to the new ones. Big diff with the new platform and suspension. My son has a 2009 Forester, and while pretty good, can't do what my Crosstrek does off-road.

I just came back from a trip way up north in BC (with a short trip into AK). Up there you see mostly trucks (for obvious reasons), some SUVs, and a surprisingly number of Subaru's. Most were the new Crosstrek, and some Foresters, and a few Outbacks. I don't know where they even buy these, because there are not a lot of Subaru dealers up there. But the real surprise was almost no Jeeps (Wranglers). We noticed the lack of them, and started looking. We counted a total of 3 up there the whole time we were there. We see more than that back home in the city in 5 min on the road. Seems the Wrangler has become more of a status city car than a real used off-road vehicle.
There's a Subaru dealership in Whitehorse, Yukon Territory, and the local dealership in Anchorage was one of the Top 5 volume dealerships in the nation for a while. I don't know what their numbers are like now, but they still sell tons of Subies.

Technically the Subies here do offroad because a lot of driveways aren't paved. Even my own driveway isn't paved. A lot of roads up at Hillside aren't paved either. And they're obviously... hilly. So it makes sense to have AWD and ground clearance.

But, as Pre said, he's not talking about places up here where it makes sense. He's talking about Texas, which I've always thought was a weird state to have a Subaru in, especially towards the south. That includes southern California and Florida. Subaru really isn't complaining though.

Also this past Memorial Day weekend I visited Florida (50th state visited!) and there was a forest fire the moment I crossed into the state line, so I was routed offroad to a sandy pathway for several miles. It was pretty neat. I was glad I had some relative ground clearance, especially since the Impreza was fully loaded with cargo and 5 full-grown men. Some plus-sized.
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Old 07-10-2019, 12:04 PM   #35
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There's a Subaru dealership in Whitehorse, Yukon Territory, and the local dealership in Anchorage was one of the Top 5 volume dealerships in the nation for a while. I don't know what their numbers are like now, but they still sell tons of Subies.

Technically the Subies here do offroad because a lot of driveways aren't paved. Even my own driveway isn't paved. A lot of roads up at Hillside aren't paved either. And they're obviously... hilly. So it makes sense to have AWD and ground clearance.

But, as Pre said, he's not talking about places up here where it makes sense. He's talking about Texas, which I've always thought was a weird state to have a Subaru in, especially towards the south. That includes southern California and Florida. Subaru really isn't complaining though.

Also this past Memorial Day weekend I visited Florida (50th state visited!) and there was a forest fire the moment I crossed into the state line, so I was routed offroad to a sandy pathway for several miles. It was pretty neat. I was glad I had some relative ground clearance, especially since the Impreza was fully loaded with cargo and 5 full-grown men. Some plus-sized.
I was in the Cassier/Stewart area. They also get tons of snow up there in the winter, up to 90' in Stewart. So that probably helps Subaru sales as well.
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Old 07-10-2019, 12:13 PM   #36
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I was in the Cassier/Stewart area. They also get tons of snow up there in the winter, up to 90' in Stewart. So that probably helps Subaru sales as well.
Ah yes, Cassiar, where, near Dease Lake, there's the ONE gas station, and it closes at 8pm, but opens at 7am. It's so annoying and such an uneventful drive that I just avoid that "shortcut" these days. I just take the AlCan, where the bison roam and gas stations are plentiful.

When I leave Alaska for the last time on August 23rd I'm hoping most of the road construction is done. It was fine when I left in early May, but coming back in late June almost murdered my new Konig wheels.

When I took the Crosstrek in September last year it wasn't really a big deal, except that the tires were almost bald by the time I was returning to Alaska. I spend the night in a rest area near Watson Lake and the next morning there was ice fog and everything was iced over. I had to be super careful until I crossed into Alaska. Then it was just rainy in Anchorage, so I had to be careful then too. Obviously replaced the tires with high performance Michelin all-seasons since then.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:49 PM   #37
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The North American love affair with automobiles is largely over. Today the majority of people want nothing more than the trendiest way to get from A to B and today it’s SUV’s not cars. I don’t think this will change as long as Americans (we Canadians would be perfectly fine driving Euro sized vehicles) continue to have their bigger is better mentality as automakers love the applied surcharge that comes with adding ground clearance to create the illusion of being bigger.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:48 PM   #38
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The North American love affair with automobiles is largely over. Today the majority of people want nothing more than the trendiest way to get from A to B and today itís SUVís not cars. I donít think this will change as long as Americans (we Canadians would be perfectly fine driving Euro sized vehicles) continue to have their bigger is better mentality as automakers love the applied surcharge that comes with adding ground clearance to create the illusion of being bigger.
I think yes, people want trendy, but also more practical, which makes SUVs even more attractive. And smaller SUV's are more attractive now, too, not just because they are cheaper, but use less fuel, and fit in the garage better. Manufacturers are coming out with smaller and smaller SUV/Crossover type cars. The Crosstrek is no longer considered small beside a lot of these now. They are also getting more bling and features now, which used to be found only in larger more expensive cars.
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:18 PM   #39
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Plenty of people still buying cars. Which is why manus invented the crossover for single chassis double duty products.
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:09 PM   #40
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So you think the Crossroad is a rock crawler?
Define offroad, some dirt road? Real off road capability means lockers, diffs, a drivetrain meant for it. The Crosstek doesn't have much power. Many people calling it gutless. You could take a lot vehicles offload on the market, doesn't mean it's real bright or meant for it. Your buddies make me laugh. What happens offroad when you get stuck in mud in that thing? You better hope someone else is around to pull you out because the Crosstek doesn't have any real power. It's underpowered. Pretty obvious it wasn't designed to do anything but superficial off road like a dirt or gravel road. That's about it. It's a lifted Impreza and always has been.



Zero F's given, honestly. You need to use your mind. For decades and decades and decades this was not an issue. People weren't whining like little snowflakes that your common passenger car was hard to climb into or sit in.

So you are saying they buy it because they cannot park a passenger vehicle without scraping the bumper on a curb? I guess you fail to see the senility in that.

There are always going to be examples of disable people and no I'm not talking about them or anyone with a legit need for something like this. Only a cold hearted SOB would look down upon them. I have friends in the same situation who drive truck/SUV for this reason. And I have lost someone very close to me 10 years ago, and another just a few weeks ago. But you know that is not the common buyer at all. That's small percentage of buyers. I know a Subaru salesman here very well. Most buy it for image and that's all. It looks "offroad", all show and no go. Most never see offroad. They are parked at the mall or going through a Starbucks or sack meal window drive through, extremely superficial. That was the point. Alaska isn't the continental US. Hell I understand people up north who need ground clearance for snow driving too. But the car is still gutless. Rub on your Subaru underoos, it will be Ok.

For someone who doesn't like people putting words in his mouth, you sure do it enough. When did I say it could rock crawl? When did I say that's what the buyers intend with it? R P gives you a great example. One of those friends I mentioned loves that it could do much more than anything he had prior. Some Subaru, some not. Now, I'm also not claiming those previous cars are some sort of capable rock crawlers either. He is just the type to turn down that dirt road to see where it goes. It turns into something rougher? He will certainly continue down it if he feels he can make it. He's shared plenty of pictures showing his "accomplishments" with this car.

And like Chano said, cars of yore were "cars". Trucks and SUVs of the day were horrible riding things that got absolutely abhorrent gas mileage. So, no one really wanted them; so, they weren't widely available. Over the years, both got better and the switch began. I fully understand the love and want of what you want. I want a car that will ALSO do pretty much what I ask of it, when I ask it. A mountain top I visited in Arkansas will likely never see the likes of any of your vehicles(wait, do you have a dirt bike?). If I can have both, I will. Not every person wants what you want. Sitting low to the ground doesn't define a person as non-lazy. That defines a person that was a car low to the ground. People on here complain about a 5door WRX/STI not being available for many reasons including "practicality". Well, not much more "practical" than a SUV/CUV. Just the way it is. Does it suck? Sure?


Heck, Subaru helped start this current craze because they saw what THEIR customers had been doing with their cars. Heck, they even promoted it in the 80s. Still like that Ski Team commercial. SO, up went the Legacy Wagon.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:34 AM   #41
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The Outback XT is more appealing each day.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:38 AM   #42
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Your mom will approve. All moms approve. Yay moms.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:01 AM   #43
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Your mom will approve. All moms approve. Yay moms.
My roomie's stepmom traded in her 2015 Outback for a 2017 Impreza Sport hatch... Lithium Red... Just like mine... EXCEPT she's cooler than me because she got the 5MT. The reason she traded in her Outback? Because it's a "mom car".
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:37 AM   #44
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Definitely agree with you on the off-road part. I wouldn't really "off-road" a Crosstrek.

People drove cars differently back in the day because it's about what's available to them. My mom drove manual transmission cars for years. Don't think she ever had to replace a clutch because she learned to shift smoothly. Still, when she was looking at getting a new Tacoma I asked if she'd get the manual and said she preferred the automatic because she didn't really feel like shifting her own gears.

Maybe you consider it "lazy" that people are driving raised, automatic transmission vehicles. I see it as people having bigger things in their lives to worry about, especially now more than ever. I'm not gonna knock someone for trying to simplify their life. It ain't the 80's anymore, no matter how many seasons of Stranger Things are a hit.

Cars are more expensive to repair now, especially with the specialized paint and bendable plastics that shatter when it's cold outside. Maybe you want all cars to go back to chrome bumpers with rubber cart-pushers? I mean, we're already kind of there because the Crosstrek offers plastic cladding that the Impreza doesn't, so when there are scrapes it's really not a big deal. In that sense I figured you'd praise the Crosstrek!

And I don't presume to know that most Crosstrek buyers are whiny babies. That's just a weird assumption to make of people, in my opinion. Maybe if you could get people to watch less Netflix or movies or eat out at less restaurants or stop working desk jobs, then they'd invest in lowered cars that aren't as comfortable to get in and out of. But they'd be okay with that discomfort because their backs aren't being tweaked by the things I mentioned. I know for me I didn't mine having my BRZ because I always stayed pretty active, but it was torture for anyone else who wasn't as active as me. Young people loved it, but older people not so much.
Americans, as a whole, are not active. They sit on a couch and watch teli all day, and/or some kind of screen doing intsagoogletwatface. Obesity took over from smoking years ago as the #1 killer. That means people are fat (or obese) and lazy. Someone out there working on their doctoral thesis could use this as subject matter. As Americans have gotten lazier, and fatter, you could draw almost a parallel line to this car -> CUV migration. I've been on the Earth for decades and only now do I hear this complaining that a passenger car is difficult to get in and out of. Oh my lawd these people need to put down the sack meals and do some push ups or something.
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Old 07-11-2019, 03:22 PM   #45
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My roomie's stepmom traded in her 2015 Outback for a 2017 Impreza Sport hatch... Lithium Red... Just like mine... EXCEPT she's cooler than me because she got the 5MT. The reason she traded in her Outback? Because it's a "mom car".
Now you have me convinced Subaru will offer manual XTs. Your stepmom story better deliver.
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:03 AM   #46
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Americans, as a whole, are not active. They sit on a couch and watch teli all day, and/or some kind of screen doing intsagoogletwatface. Obesity took over from smoking years ago as the #1 killer. That means people are fat (or obese) and lazy. Someone out there working on their doctoral thesis could use this as subject matter. As Americans have gotten lazier, and fatter, you could draw almost a parallel line to this car -> CUV migration. I've been on the Earth for decades and only now do I hear this complaining that a passenger car is difficult to get in and out of. Oh my lawd these people need to put down the sack meals and do some push ups or something.
The epitome of cherry picking right there.

obesity took over as no. 1 killer as smoking & smoking related deaths have severely declined, it's not like the same amount of people are still lighting up and intentionally themselves & family members some form of cancer; there was this large campaign against smoking that kinda curtailed most of that, and you know, reduced the amount of public smoking such as in bars and restaurants; really villainized the habit.

Beyond that, have you gotten in and out of most modern cars these days? modern safety driven design results in deep rocker panels and compromised entry points - a-pillars & b-pillars have gotten thicker, the roof structure around the entry points & glass has gotten thicker. Getting in and out of a compact or even mid-sized car requires you to do a squat while simultaneously lengthening your legs & nearly folding yourself in half, and in most cases dropping into a bucket seat that is lower than your knees, all without hitting your head on the way in and trusting you can blindly know where you seat is.
Practical example, my wifes 2017 Corolla hatch is roughly the same size as my 2006 wrx wagon, but my wrx wagon is much easier to get in and out of.

That doesn't even touch on the experience thanks to higher belt lines, lower roof lines, and a significantly reduced greenhouse; it's downright claustrophobic in most modern cars in comparison to stuff from 10+/- years ago.

I'm not saying obesity isn't a problem in the USA (and frankly many countries around the world), I'm not saying obese people don't have an easier time getting in and out of CUVs compared to their sedan/hatch counterparts, but so does everyone else.

I've owned cars from the 60's to the current day, and seen the fads/trends come and go, the current CUV craze has a hell of a lot more driving it than some fat people.

TLDR: correlation does not imply causation.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:50 AM   #47
Pre
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I never said it was the ONLY reason. I do think it correlates very well. I cannot count how many times I've heard people being able to "fit" in a car and it's why they drive a truck or SUV.
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:10 PM   #48
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There are two different reasons why my wife and I chose a Forester over sedans. She wants the higher seating position and I demand the ride height. Both happy.

Many others recognize the safety of mass... a great many.

Fat has nothing to do with it, per se. Iíve seen as many fat people impossibly stuffed into little cars as I have SUVs ot trucks. Sadly, there are too many fat people in too many places, and a shocking amount in WV.

But there is a negative correlation at work, too. Fat people are often financially disadvantaged, less educated or both. More likely to have cheaper vehicles, which SUVs and trucks are not, and small carsí operating and repair costs are less. Not to mention taxes. Not to mention purchase price.

So I donít think fat people created the current buying publicís preference for lifted vehicles.
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