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Old 07-09-2008, 12:18 PM   #26
Huffer
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^^ if you remove the ABS fuse and thus disable the ABS system entirely - if the issue goes away then you know the problem is with the ABS system and will need checking out.
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Old 07-09-2008, 07:12 PM   #27
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^^ Thanks guys.
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:01 AM   #28
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<------ABS free for over 4 months now!!!
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Old 06-09-2009, 10:48 PM   #29
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Hey so I know this is an old thread but it`s really on topic with my question.....

I pulled the abs relay from my 1998 Subaru Outback and am enjoying driving ABS free. When the ABS was on, my pedal had a nice tight feel to it like it should. HOWEVER, once the ABS was disabled the pedal travel increased dramatically, going all the way to the floor at times. When I re-enable the ABS, the travel is restored to normal. The situation doesn`t make much sense. My only guess is that the ABS box somehow changes the flow of brake fluid and when it`s disabled, the system functions differently. Has anyone else experienced this problem? How can I get a good pedal feel without ABS?? Thanks!

Last edited by greasemonkey88; 06-09-2009 at 10:50 PM. Reason: mistake on my own car`s year lolz
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:28 PM   #30
snowybird
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Default how do I disconnect ABS and not other functions?

I have a 1995 subaru legacy. It is in great condition. I agree with all posts in support of disbaling the ABS. The ABS brakes have almost killed me multiple times. They just don't stop you in time. Last time I almost went off the side of highway 120 on Tioga pass, thousands of feet to my death. I took out the fuse labeled ABS on the driver's side fuse box on the wall left of the gas and brake pedals. My brakes work perfect after that. But now my overhead interior light and automatic door locks do not work. Is there a way to disconnect the anitlock brakes and not disconnect other important car functions? Thank you!
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Old 11-28-2010, 11:48 AM   #31
195SubaruLegacyWagon
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Default ABS Relay location

Hey Paul.
I have the same constant buzzing/battery draining ABS issue as discussed. I've pulled my ABS/Cruise Control fuse under my dashboard, but cannot locate an ABS relay under the hood. My fuse box under the hood contains mostly air conditioning and headlight relays. My vehicle is a 1995 Subaru Legacy Wagon. Do you have suggestions where I might locate this ABS relay so I can pull it and stop the constant buzzing/battery draining? Thanks for any information you're able to provide.
Tara


Quote:
Originally Posted by smallv View Post
Solution:
If you open up the fuse box under the hood, look for the relay labled ABS. Remove this relay. There is enough room between relays that you can just leave the relay floating inside the fuse box before you close the lid. Now your ABS light will always be on and you will be driving a much safer vehicle. Subaru brakes performance is far superior without ABS in fact rally drivers routinely disable ABS brakes in order that they have braking power on gravel roads.

The grinding noise of which you complain is just the normal sound that ABS brakes make as they interfere with your ability to slow down/stop. In diverting fluid away from the brake pistons and pushing back on the brake pedal, make no mistake, the ABS system is preventing you from slowing down. The theory is that it’s better to take longer to slow down and maintain steering control but braking distance suffers considerably. The effect is less noticeable on dry pavement because not to many daily driving events require four wheel lock-up to avoid a collision. However on slippery surfaces the increase in ABS stopping distances is significant. Mid 1990 accident statistics from the US demonstrated that cars equipped with ABS brakes were slightly less likely to drive into the back of a vehicle but considerably more likely to drive off the road. I suppose when drivers realize that they have no brakes but plenty of steering control, some will elect to drive off the road instead of striking the vehicle in front. In other circumstances, being unable to scrub off speed prior to a turn means that the vehicle will hit the curve two fast and ditch. There was an early 1990 W5 expose on ABS stopping distances. They tested a pickup truck with rear-only ABS and found 20 extra feet need to stop from about 30 miles per hour (I'm going from memory so this is approximate) The same episode highlighted the deaths of two police officers who died crashing into a ravine because they had no braking power available heading into a turn. The officer’s were in radio contact during a pursuit and could be heard saying the brakes were out just seconds before the fatal crash. Today's brakes are 4 wheel ABS so the loss of braking power affects the more crucial front wheels that are generally responsible for 80 - 90% of braking power.


Background on my experience with ABS Brakes:
When we purchased our first Subaru legacy in 1995 it was only a few weeks before I had a near death experiences with the ABS brakes. We live in Ottawa Canada and Roads are often icy.

Breaking distances are always longer with ABS brakes. However the Subaru ABS braking distances seem to become exponentially longer as the surface becomes more slippery. On icy roads and especially snow covered ice, the ABS brakes effectively eliminate all braking power. A quick thinking driver can override the system with the use of the hand brake -- In doing so it becomes obvious that ample traction was available for stopping and that the ABS braking system was only serving to deny the drive the opportunity to make use of the available grip. The day I discover this back in 1995 I immediately pulled the ABS relay. Since then I have convinced many drivers to do the same simply by taking them to a slippery parking lot and showing them how they can toggle from no brakes to instant stopping simply with the hand brake. A few stopping tests with and without the ABS relay easily convinces most drivers that their stopping power is severely impaired by ABS brakes. On slippery services the difference averages about 20 - 30 feet when stopping from 60 km/hr. On very slick surfaces, the difference can be over 100 feet or however long it takes to reach a patch of dryer pavement.

More recently, we purchased a new 2008 Outback in Buffalo and drove the car back to Ottawa Canada. I forgot to pull the ABS brake circuit. Just days later, my wife ended up coasting helplessly through a red light, narrowly missing one car,, passing behind this car and, squeaking just clear of getting broadsided by the next vehicle--a large truck. The roads were icy and the ABS prevented all brake engagement. It was a very close call. Obviously, I disconnected the ABS immediately.

These are inexcusable brake problems and I have written to Subaru on the subject a number of times. I am happy to drive with no ABS but I worry about all the other Subaru drivers who have not disconnected theirs. I recall a "Subaru customer testimonial" that appeared on the Subaru web site back in 1996. This was the story of an outback drive let his friend drive for a while. The guest driver drove the car straight into a ditch on a downhill gravel road that ended in a turn. Despite a broken shoulder blade and considerable damage to the vehicle, the owner wrote glowingly about how easily the outback drove itself out of the ditch and on to the hospital. Reading the story and in light of my own experience, I felt it was quite likely that the ABS brakes were responsible for putting the 1996 outback into the ditch. The customer testimonial attributed the accident to the driver being a "City Slicker". However, stopping quickly on gravel requires a certain amount of wheel lock so wheels that never lock mean little or no deceleration. The situation is much the same on icy roads. I'm also aware that all Subaru Rally Racers disconnect their ABS Brakes for safety reasons. I’m also quite certain that ABS brakes are never placed on F1 cars and other racing vehicles.

I still think Subaru's are the greatest cars anywhere but it is disappointing that over 10 years after I wrote to Subaru to complain of the problem, the same deadly circumstance persists. These cars have virtually unlimited forward traction on glare ice. It gives them the power to get up to cruising speed on surfaces that leave lesser cars spinning and crawling. For this reason there is an even greater need for Subaru's to have stopping power.

I've found similar problems with ABS Brakes on many different vehicles. Subaru's are not alone. The problem is more significant for Subaru drivers because we have no problem accelerating only to discover that the brakes are ineffective on the same surface.

Take my advice. Pull your ABS relay. It may someday save the live of yourself or a loved one or at least save you a trip to the body shop.

Are there any downsides to disabling ABS?
If you feel you are an incompetent driver who will lock-up the brakes and keep them locked throughout a skid then perhaps keeping the ABS may some day provide you a benefit.

Pulling the ABS relay means that if you mindlessly jump on the brakes on a slippery road, you will skid—If you are driving a Subaru--so what!. Thanks to all wheel drive, you can recover from such an act simply by easing off on the brakes for an instant – voila, you straighten out.

There are a variety of techniques for emergency braking. A four wheel lock-up works best on gravel with brief reprieves to regain alignment with the direction of travel. Threshold braking is best for dry pavement but toggling between lock-up and threshold braking can help you to stop even sooner. You’ll need some clearance to the right and left for the sway of a brief skid, if so locking all four wheels is guaranteed to scrub off the most speed. Pumping the brakes is a very poor approach and its the technique to which ABS stopping distances are often compared. Sadly, pumping the brakes with the ABS relay disconnected often stops significantly short of a pedal-down ABS stop. Feel free to try it yourself on deserted gravel road or an icy lot.

PPS
2008 Outbacks seem to have cruise control co-fused with the ABS system. Pulling the outback ABS Fuse also disables cruise control. I'm looking for a way to circumvent this. Our 2008 Forester has the same set-up as the 1995 legacy. Pulling the Forester ABS relay only disables ABS with no other side effects.

Kind Regards, Paul
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:47 PM   #32
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Default Fuse Diagram

I Was On Here I Lopoked Under The Hood At The Fusebox And There Is None Listed Saying Abs There Is One By The Gas And Brake Pedals I Need Help To Find The One For The Abs Anyone Have A Diagram Or A Picture With An Arrow Pointing At Which Duse It Is I Have A 1995 Subaru Legacy L. And Hate The Fact It Slides

Plus Is It Gonna Mess Up My Car If I Do Disconnect It??
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:26 PM   #33
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Okay, not sure if I saw the reply, but I'm also baffled at the location for the abs control module. I'm trying to find it so I can decode the fault code for a faulty abs sensor. This is on a 1995 legacy wagon.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:57 PM   #34
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i just want to know where the fuse is under the dash location of it i dont have a cover or listing of the fuses names
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:57 PM   #35
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bump, i'd like to know too. car is a 97 legacy gt
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:26 AM   #36
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Great conversation in this thread. it is a topic i have pondered on. there is lots of good info in this thread (and some conflicting opinions, meaning they cant all be absolutely true). also lots of great civil conversation without getting overly emotional.

i may have one or two quick thoughts on the subject.

Executive Summary: Subaru ABS is "over boosted" or "over-active" on the models i have driven in the loose gravel or snow. other cars i have driven dont have that same problem.

Intro:
Once i noticed that my first WRX would have this issue, i started comparing with/without ABS stopping distances on different surfaces in my subarus. then i got used to doing that over the course of a few different subarus and started doing it on other cars (dont tell my mom). i would get to a safe location with the surface in question, then run all the cars i had available on that surface with and without the ABS fuse in place. over the course of a couple years, i had compiled some interesting comparisons. all of these had different tires, etc so cant be directly taken as absolute truths, but in the conditions i investigated, at the time with the brakes and tires in the condition (all in proper repair but of varying degrees of "worn out") these were solid indicators of the trends. i didnt get out and take measurements, but could certainly observe the effect of one of the factors (with ABS) is either consistently better, worse, or about the same as without ABS.
my own observations from my personal direct experience (purposefully comparing with/without ABS activated, and also just from normal driving on these surfaces) can be summed up below.

Observations on Braking performance:

Vehicle / surface / works better with ABS on or off

2000 Honda Accord Sedan / dry or wet pavement / better with ABS
2000 honda accord / loose gravel or "medium depth" snow / about the same

2001 Toyota Echo coupe / dry or wet pavement / better with ABS
2001 Toyota Echo / loose gravel or "medium depth" snow / better with ABS

2005 Mercedes C320 sedan / dry or wet pavement / better with ABS
2005 Mercedes C320 / loose gravel or "medium depth" snow / better with ABS

------------------

1997 Subaru Legacy GT wagon / dry or wet pavement / better with ABS
1997 Subaru Legacy GT / loose gravel or "medium depth" snow / better WITHOUT ABS

1999 Subaru WRX STI Version 5 Sedan (JDM model) / dry or wet pavement / better with ABS
1999 Subaru WRX STI Version 5 Sedan (JDM model) / loose gravel or "medium depth" snow / better WITHOUT ABS

2002 Subaru WRX wagon / dry or wet pavement / better with ABS
2002 Subaru WRX / loose gravel or "medium depth" snow / better WITHOUT ABS
* above was tested on 2 different cars of the same year and model with the same results*

2003 Subaru Legacy / Loose gravel / better WITHOUT ABS

2005 Saab 9-2X (saabaru WRX) / dry or wet pavement / better with ABS
2005 Saab 9-2X (saabaru WRX) / loose gravel or "medium depth" snow / better WITHOUT ABS
* above was tested on 2 different cars of the same year and model with the same results*

General observations that only apply to the Above Noted Subarus:
-the faster the speed, the better chance of ABS working well on any surface
-the slower the speed (even down to like 5 mph), the less chance of ABS working well on the loose gravel/mid-depth snow.

-for solid ice conditions (just one or two observations but not direct intentional tests):
-ABS worked better than full lock without ABS
-intentional modulation without ABS worked about the same as with ABS

-if there is more traction under the loose surface than on top of the loose surface, your brakes will work better if you can lock up the tires enough to get down to the lower surface.
-if there is more traction above than below (cant think of an example), then the brakes would work better if you dont lock up the tires.

Conclusion and Recommendations:
In the above-noted Subarus (plus there may be others), the ABS engagement goes too far (too much pressure counteraction) and for too long (time duration) when there is loose gravel / med-depth snow to the point of really effectively rendering the brakes ineffective. other manufacturers dont seem to have the same problem. i think it is in the programming, which supports the comment about subaru in NZ re-programming their ABS. (i wish we could get access the re-programmed ABS here too, which would be able to be applied to any US-model subaru potentially)

When driving your car that falls in the group of the Above Noted Subarus, first of all, drive at a safe speed on any given surface, taking into account the surface conditions and weather. second of all, for most drivers in most conditions, its probably better to leave the ABS in stock working condition. third of all, for certain performance-minded, experienced drivers under controlled conditions (as controlled as possible), pulling the ABS fuse before driving on loose gravel or medium-depth snow can enhance the overall car response to braking events, and can contribute to a fun, safe, and enjoyable driving experience. make sure you remember that when you are back on the tarmac, to remember to put the fuse back in, or to adjust your driving to not having ABS on the tarmac as well (both of these are prone to forgetting to do them, which could cause increased risk of accidents).

be safe and brake early and often!

Last edited by crisco555; 06-05-2013 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:09 PM   #37
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Only on NASIOC can we go from how to fix a common problem (ABS relay failing in the open position) to REMOVE THE ABS IT'S THE DEBBIL!

95 Legacy, IIRC the relay is on the ABS module itself (pass side of the engine bay, behind the headlamp) pop the cap off and replace the relay (about $35)
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:30 PM   #38
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^ so true. sorry for getting a little off topic.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:32 AM   #39
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I agree on the speed sensor check. I had this happen on a BMW I once owned, and turned out it was this exact thing. If I recall, it would trip on when I hit a nice bump, too.
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Old 03-27-2022, 05:05 PM   #40
95 Legacy awd wagon
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Default ABS light, sensor issue 95 Legacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by crisco555 View Post
^ so true. sorry for getting a little off topic.
Hi All, I am a Subaru lover, former Subaru financial rep. type at a bank, and STILL love my 1995 Legacy L wagon awd 2.2L automatic with now 317,000 miles in USA. ABS sensor on my rear driver side went bad with corrosion over time, then finally just replaced as Cable itself snapped. Dealer having trouble getting new sensor to sit right, and while it seemed fixed for first 25 miles leaving dealer (speeds up to 50-60mph, varied town/hiway) ABS light came on again at almost exactly the 25miles from dealer mark at about 50mph. I find it hard to believe these sensors are SO sensitive to infinitesimal seating tolerances? A) I guess dealer has to file away more corrosion and rust under where abs sensor sits on the wheel knuckle? B) is it normal for some other part of AbS to take awhile to boot back up if car had bad sensor and light on for over six months? C) Oddly, the next day (yesterday), the light stayed out for about 2 or 3 miles, then came on. Then other times it stayed off when vehicle started, (indicating no OHMS problem, in a new sensor, so ok), but came on almost immediately when car moved forward like 20'. D) i did feel some odd sensations/vibration when braking and pedal seemed to go down farther than normal (pads and rotors just changed, fluid is 99% level) and I guess that is somehow the abs solenoids running a purge or fill-up / test "get ready" cycle? Nota Bene: I had not heard this funny sound the Whole time the AbS light was on for 6 months with bad sensor, so part if me happy to hear it again!?) E) BiG Question: i care less about abs brakes than about my AWD, and is it true that the entire AWDrive is not NOT not active when abs light on??? I have had many nonABS cars, and drive 2 nonABS motorcycles now, so "no ABS" doesnt bug me much, and many of YouAll say it's bad on early '95 era Subarus, BUT But but.... drumroll ... does that darn ABS light on dash ON mean I do NOT have all wheel drive active if I need to park in or get out of an snowy/icy parking spot, say, at a ski slope lot, mountain road, etc. ??? ANY comments appreciated. I will flow them back to Subaru dealer now, as I'm taking her back to see if they can seat that Sensor driver/rear!!! !!! Thanks for any help/comments. --- Bo.
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Old 03-31-2022, 08:20 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 Legacy awd wagon View Post
Hi All, I am a Subaru lover, former Subaru financial rep. type at a bank, and STILL love my 1995 Legacy L wagon awd 2.2L automatic with now 317,000 miles in USA. ABS sensor on my rear driver side went bad with corrosion over time, then finally just replaced as Cable itself snapped. Dealer having trouble getting new sensor to sit right, and while it seemed fixed for first 25 miles leaving dealer (speeds up to 50-60mph, varied town/hiway) ABS light came on again at almost exactly the 25miles from dealer mark at about 50mph. I find it hard to believe these sensors are SO sensitive to infinitesimal seating tolerances? A) I guess dealer has to file away more corrosion and rust under where abs sensor sits on the wheel knuckle? B) is it normal for some other part of AbS to take awhile to boot back up if car had bad sensor and light on for over six months? C) Oddly, the next day (yesterday), the light stayed out for about 2 or 3 miles, then came on. Then other times it stayed off when vehicle started, (indicating no OHMS problem, in a new sensor, so ok), but came on almost immediately when car moved forward like 20'. D) i did feel some odd sensations/vibration when braking and pedal seemed to go down farther than normal (pads and rotors just changed, fluid is 99% level) and I guess that is somehow the abs solenoids running a purge or fill-up / test "get ready" cycle? Nota Bene: I had not heard this funny sound the Whole time the AbS light was on for 6 months with bad sensor, so part if me happy to hear it again!?) E) BiG Question: i care less about abs brakes than about my AWD, and is it true that the entire AWDrive is not NOT not active when abs light on??? I have had many nonABS cars, and drive 2 nonABS motorcycles now, so "no ABS" doesnt bug me much, and many of YouAll say it's bad on early '95 era Subarus, BUT But but.... drumroll ... does that darn ABS light on dash ON mean I do NOT have all wheel drive active if I need to park in or get out of an snowy/icy parking spot, say, at a ski slope lot, mountain road, etc. ??? ANY comments appreciated. I will flow them back to Subaru dealer now, as I'm taking her back to see if they can seat that Sensor driver/rear!!! !!! Thanks for any help/comments. --- Bo.
Odds are your backing plates have rust, with creeping rust at some of the welds and the backing plate is increasing the air gap between the sensor and reluctor ring. IIRC the air gap is 2mm +/- 0.5 mm. Seen it many times - only fix is replace backing plate and remedy any rust on the knuckle flange.
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Old 04-01-2022, 11:32 PM   #42
95 Legacy awd wagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
Odds are your backing plates have rust, with creeping rust at some of the welds and the backing plate is increasing the air gap between the sensor and reluctor ring. IIRC the air gap is 2mm +/- 0.5 mm. Seen it many times - only fix is replace backing plate and remedy any rust on the knuckle flange.
Thank you for very helpful Info. What a bizarrely tiny margin of error tolerance, esp. for such a slapped together design: '95 literally just two drilled holes, one for sensor, one for hold down bolt. Not the 1st time Subaru designers under-estimated R U S T and corrosion (the filler pipe plastic cover in real world acted as an insurance policy that sand/salt/pebbles would get wedged to bottom hoop of pipe and rust it worse than swiss cheese. I had dealer replace mine, but luckily just the pipe, not the gas tank or tank intermediate rubber hose.

May I clarify: backing plate means the metal part that comes with ABS sensor and has the hole for hold-down bolt to knuckle? You're saying some folks have had to REPLACE the rear knuckle to get ABS to work?!

I realized they replaced just Driver Rear sensor 'cause Pass Rear tested ok. Possible that there is enough of a mismatch between possibly worn/dirty Pass side sensor that after a mile or so now, it's throwing ABS code? Current situation: when turn car on after sitting, or after clearing obd-ii codes, the ABs light on dash is off/dark (i.e., both rear sensors are checking o.k. for Ohm resistance, yes?) But after driving less than 1/4 mile or 1/2 mile, ABS light turns on. I did get one longer "light off" drive, and took chance tk slam on brakes to get pulsing ABS, and it worked. After 2 years of inactivity, both front wheels locked and then ABS pulsed. I also several times since picking up car have felt some "whirring" sensation and vibration, sinking in brake pedal, which I guess is good news that abs solenoid servos are filling up/pressurizing (my guess, i not expert here???) So, good news is that the senoids and pulsing still works after 27 years and 2 years of no rear driver abs sensor. :-) Thoughts? Can dealer's abs reader find more detailed codes on where abs fault is? I think dealer embarrassed they had to use the under dash connector method to Morse-code read errors, as they no longer have reader for a '95. (!!!)
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Old 04-01-2022, 11:41 PM   #43
95 Legacy awd wagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 195SubaruLegacyWagon View Post
Hey Paul.
I have the same constant buzzing/battery draining ABS issue as discussed. I've pulled my ABS/Cruise Control fuse under my dashboard, but cannot locate an ABS relay under the hood. My fuse box under the hood contains mostly air conditioning and headlight relays. My vehicle is a 1995 Subaru Legacy Wagon. Do you have suggestions where I might locate this ABS relay so I can pull it and stop the constant buzzing/battery draining? Thanks for any information you're able to provide.
Tara
Paul, May I clarify: do you know if a 1995 Legacy wagon with ABS (2.2L sohC automatic transm.) and AWDrive will still have awd functionality if abs light is on? (i.e., does awd depend on the info from the 4 sensors all being "good" to the ECu even if abs fuse is pulled? i can't quite believe Subie engineered an awd system which fails if your knuckle or backing plates rust 1/2 of 1 mm, in a car marketed for snow/ice/dalty NorthEast USA !!!

p.s. what is a Backing plate? Is that what protects brake rotor from interior side of wheel elements? or does that mean just the metal flange/seat part of abs sensor?

Thank you!
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Old 04-02-2022, 11:03 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 Legacy awd wagon View Post
Thank you for very helpful Info. What a bizarrely tiny margin of error tolerance, esp. for such a slapped together design: '95 literally just two drilled holes, one for sensor, one for hold down bolt. Not the 1st time Subaru designers under-estimated R U S T and corrosion (the filler pipe plastic cover in real world acted as an insurance policy that sand/salt/pebbles would get wedged to bottom hoop of pipe and rust it worse than swiss cheese. I had dealer replace mine, but luckily just the pipe, not the gas tank or tank intermediate rubber hose.

May I clarify: backing plate means the metal part that comes with ABS sensor and has the hole for hold-down bolt to knuckle? You're saying some folks have had to REPLACE the rear knuckle to get ABS to work?!

I realized they replaced just Driver Rear sensor 'cause Pass Rear tested ok. Possible that there is enough of a mismatch between possibly worn/dirty Pass side sensor that after a mile or so now, it's throwing ABS code? Current situation: when turn car on after sitting, or after clearing obd-ii codes, the ABs light on dash is off/dark (i.e., both rear sensors are checking o.k. for Ohm resistance, yes?) But after driving less than 1/4 mile or 1/2 mile, ABS light turns on. I did get one longer "light off" drive, and took chance tk slam on brakes to get pulsing ABS, and it worked. After 2 years of inactivity, both front wheels locked and then ABS pulsed. I also several times since picking up car have felt some "whirring" sensation and vibration, sinking in brake pedal, which I guess is good news that abs solenoid servos are filling up/pressurizing (my guess, i not expert here???) So, good news is that the senoids and pulsing still works after 27 years and 2 years of no rear driver abs sensor. :-) Thoughts? Can dealer's abs reader find more detailed codes on where abs fault is? I think dealer embarrassed they had to use the under dash connector method to Morse-code read errors, as they no longer have reader for a '95. (!!!)
Speaking from experience I can tell you it takes serious late-stage rust to cause this issue. Another cause could be someone bending the backing plate while using a press to replace a rear wheel bearing, or breaking or leaving out the reluctor ring when replacing an axle hub.

The buzz noise: That is the ABS system cycling. What is happening is the ABS module looks at all 4 speed sensor for frequency and amplitude. Because one sensor has a bigger gap ( or cracked/missing reluctor) the amplitude is lower/missing. As the wheels slow down the module sees this as that one wheel's rotation slowing sooner than the other 3 and kicks in the ABS.

First - measure air gaps on both sides in rear. Also inspect for missing or cracked reluctor rings. If you have a multichannel oscilloscope and were looking at two, three, or all 4 speed sensor signals you can clearly see the difference in waveforms as the wheels slow down to a stop.

Younger techs just don't know about these issues. Subaru only trains for the latest technology. If you have no experience with older cars you just don't know this things.

Below is a picture of a backing plate (showing drum brake - disc is similar) and then the knuckle (left diagram is AWD) with reluctor ring shown on hub.


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Old 04-05-2022, 01:57 AM   #45
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Speaking from experience I can tell you it takes serious late-stage rust to cause this issue. Another cause could be someone bending the backing plate while using a press to replace a rear wheel bearing, or breaking or leaving out the reluctor ring when replacing an axle hub.

The buzz noise: That is the ABS system cycling. What is happening is the ABS module looks at all 4 speed sensor for frequency and amplitude. Because one sensor has a bigger gap ( or cracked/missing reluctor) the amplitude is lower/missing. As the wheels slow down the module sees this as that one wheel's rotation slowing sooner than the other 3 and kicks in the ABS.

First - measure air gaps on both sides in rear. Also inspect for missing or cracked reluctor rings. If you have a multichannel oscilloscope and were looking at two, three, or all 4 speed sensor signals you can clearly see the difference in waveforms as the wheels slow down to a stop.

Younger techs just don't know about these issues. Subaru only trains for the latest technology. If you have no experience with older cars you just don't know this things.

Below is a picture of a backing plate (showing drum brake - disc is similar) and then the knuckle (left diagram is AWD) with reluctor ring shown on hub.


Thank you!

(Bonus: I'm now getting also an annoying obd-ii code 0441 Evap Purge Incorrect Flow. I checked that hoses are all good into and out of canister under hood ('95), I have goof gas cap and new filler pipe. When the car cycles a Canister purge (usually at about 2,200 rpm gradually accelerating on highway, normal engine temp. of 180° F.), the CEL comes on but does not flash. What are most common failures in old Subarus causing this code? I also checked the small 1/8" hose from canister to EVAP solenoid was not clogged by pellets; free flowing. Do dealers have a special testing apparatus to narrow down where problem is causing the 0441 code?
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Old 04-05-2022, 07:29 PM   #46
Elbert Bass
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Thank you!

(Bonus: I'm now getting also an annoying obd-ii code 0441 Evap Purge Incorrect Flow. I checked that hoses are all good into and out of canister under hood ('95), I have goof gas cap and new filler pipe. When the car cycles a Canister purge (usually at about 2,200 rpm gradually accelerating on highway, normal engine temp. of 180° F.), the CEL comes on but does not flash. What are most common failures in old Subarus causing this code? I also checked the small 1/8" hose from canister to EVAP solenoid was not clogged by pellets; free flowing. Do dealers have a special testing apparatus to narrow down where problem is causing the 0441 code?
Short of smoke test machine, nothing special. There are lots of places you can get leaks on that type system - especially one that old. You say "good" gas cap? You mean a Subaru cap - not some parts store cap?
I have seen hairline cracks in the roll over/fuel cut valves in top of the tank Give P0442 in cars after 2000 - those later models do not use P0441 codes.

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