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Old 12-06-2021, 01:00 PM   #276
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Default Toyota GR Corolla hot hatch trademarked

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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Except thatís not how the dealer network system works. Dealers make a lot of money on volume via bonuses and incentive sales programs offered by the manufacturer. Remember, Ford, Chevy, etc dealerships are not owned by the manufacturer. These auto manufacturers have both revenue and profit numbers to hit and dealers need to move volume. Thinking dealers, once supply chain is back to normal, wonít return to sales and incentives (which are pushed by the manufacturer) is silly. It will return, dealers have a ton of incentive for volume.



My f150 averages 19-20 combined mpg which isnít awful. Not great either. Prior to having a truck for work starting in 2017, I never thought Iíd own one. Now, youíll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. Once a EV truck ticks the boxes I need, Iíll switch over.

Do you feeL the same way about full size SUVís like the Tahoe?

Absolutely. I own a BOF SUV. It gets around 5000 mi per year because the capability is complete overkill for 75% of my driving. I drive it when it makes sense and drive a hatchback otherwise. My wife drives a hatchback, too.

Iím actually looking to get her into a short range EV because her car rarely leaves a 30mi radius and gets poor mileage because sheís in traffic more often than not. Perfect scenario to switch to a cheap, light EV.

The honest problem is that it is generally cheaper to just buy the biggest car that you ďneedĒ versus buying a cheaper large capacity/capability car and a commuter. So people buy for what they need 1% of the time. When the entire new car market does that, thatís how we end up with all trucks and crossovers and things turn into an arms race. It sucks.
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:27 PM   #277
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You're high as a ****ing kite to think there would be some $20k ADM on this vehicle.
Yeah, you're probably right, it's not like it's a rare car like a Civic Si or something.



Yeah, it seems crazy, but when an imaginary digital coin can cost $50k, or the digital rights to a some guy's amateur video can cost $50k, why not an actual car? We can come back in 3 years to this thread and we'll see if things went back to the way they were. You guys may be surprised.
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:40 PM   #278
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Yeah, you're probably right, it's not like it's a rare car like a Civic Si or something.



Yeah, it seems crazy, but when an imaginary digital coin can cost $50k, or the digital rights to a some guy's amateur video can cost $50k, why not an actual car? We can come back in 3 years to this thread and we'll see if things went back to the way they were. You guys may be surprised.
https://www.clintonhonda.com/honda-c...del=Civic%20Si
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:42 PM   #279
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Between drinking fuel at 17mpg and their big footprints that require enormous parking spots, and wider roads while triggering the overall safety arms race weíre in, weíd be better off if way fewer people drove Ascents.
Don't turn this into an Ascent thread.
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:51 PM   #280
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I don't see a price listed?
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:41 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post
Yeah, you're probably right, it's not like it's a rare car like a Civic Si or something.



Yeah, it seems crazy, but when an imaginary digital coin can cost $50k, or the digital rights to a some guy's amateur video can cost $50k, why not an actual car? We can come back in 3 years to this thread and we'll see if things went back to the way they were. You guys may be surprised.
Considering the price isnít even listed on the dealers website, Iím assuming I correctly priced. You act as if everyone is holding crypto currency and flush with digital cash.
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:42 PM   #282
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I don't see a price listed?
$28k, itís the first line.
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Old 12-06-2021, 05:25 PM   #283
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Absolutely. I own a BOF SUV. It gets around 5000 mi per year because the capability is complete overkill for 75% of my driving. I drive it when it makes sense and drive a hatchback otherwise. My wife drives a hatchback, too.

Iím actually looking to get her into a short range EV because her car rarely leaves a 30mi radius and gets poor mileage because sheís in traffic more often than not. Perfect scenario to switch to a cheap, light EV.

The honest problem is that it is generally cheaper to just buy the biggest car that you ďneedĒ versus buying a cheaper large capacity/capability car and a commuter. So people buy for what they need 1% of the time. When the entire new car market does that, thatís how we end up with all trucks and crossovers and things turn into an arms race. It sucks.
Your whole argument is null. People have always bought what they wanted. Families grow and shrink. Commutes grow and shrink. Jobs grown and shrink, there is always two sides to every car purchasing decision and that cannot be argued.

Part 1) what you need
Part 2) what you want

You need an SUV with some ground clearance to take the kids camping and tow a small boat from time to time while being safe from high waters when it rains or floods.

You WANT a fast fun to drive car that makes you look forward to driving.

This is how something as bombastic as a Porsche Cayenne is born.

Auto companies appeal to what people want more than what they need. Emotional decisions are what entice people to spend big money. Not basic needs.

I would rather have everybody driving 3/4 ton duallies if that is what they want than have what they are allowed to drive dictated by some remote piece of ideologically driven legislation. People are free to choose. Your opinion of what they choose is perfectly fine to have and express at your leisure and I support that. But the choice to impose rules and fines to force people to think like you do is wrong (not that you are doing that).

Quite simply put, a full size truck while large and not ideal for subdivisions is a great road trip vehicle. Plenty of room, great visibility, comfortable, and can easily go 500+ miles on one tank of gas.

A good compromise is the new rash of mid size and compact trucks that should they suit your needs AND wants are great choices.

I will close with this: Nobody needs a turbo AWD manual hatchback with LSD diffs all around. So it should not be sold. It gets poor fuel efficiency and its capabilities cannot be used all the time.

We are all blessed to be in a county that we do not have be sustained on just basic anything. I am happy their are choices for all. Full size truck for you, EV hatch for him, RV for her.

vive la difference
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Old 12-06-2021, 05:36 PM   #284
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$28k, itís the first line.
That's MSRP. You have to click the red button and enter your info to get the real price.
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Old 12-06-2021, 05:36 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post
Yeah, you're probably right, it's not like it's a rare car like a Civic Si or something.



Yeah, it seems crazy, but when an imaginary digital coin can cost $50k, or the digital rights to a some guy's amateur video can cost $50k, why not an actual car? We can come back in 3 years to this thread and we'll see if things went back to the way they were. You guys may be surprised.
I inquired on the price, itís $28k plus some extra stuff. Hereís the email from them:

The MSRP of the vehicle is 28710. Once the car get here we will be putting on some dealer adds since Honda ships them to us with out anything. We will apply the door edge guards and th cup guards to protect the paint under the handle and the edge of the door. Also, we have wheel locks so that you tires cannot be stolen. Theifs like the tire presurre monitoring systems in the wheels and the cost about $300 to $500 a tire. We also have the splash guards to help prevent the rock kick back from damaging the paint near the wheel wells. There will be a protection tray for the truck to help protect the upholstrey in the trunk. We add the Zaktek Paint protection. I love this. I have it on my car as well. It is a 7 layer clear paint that gets reapplied every 6 months to help prevent elemental damage to the paint. My car always looks brand new when I get it back after I have this applied. The last thing we add is the Window Tint. It is just to warm in AZ to not have it.


So no, there is not a $20k ADM. This is why we verify things
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Old 12-06-2021, 05:39 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post
That's MSRP. You have to click the red button and enter your info to get the real price.
Serious question, have you tried buying a car online before? If it has ADM, itís listed. Get E-price usually signifies lower cost but not advertised to competitors.


See my post above. Check and mate.
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Old 12-06-2021, 05:42 PM   #287
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Considering the price isnít even listed on the dealers website, Iím assuming I correctly priced. You act as if everyone is holding crypto currency and flush with digital cash.
The average new car price in 2021 was $45k and $40k in 2020.

People think it's cause they handed out $1500 stimulus checks. That doesn't go very far on a $45k vehicle. It's the $8 trillion in other money the government dumped on the economy in 2020, that went into stocks, bitcoin, real estate etc.

The trillions in funny money has inflated the net worth of the top 20% to insane amounts.

That's not going away - so don't expect a hot car to go for MSRP any time soon. (I'm not referring to the Civic Si here).
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Old 12-06-2021, 05:52 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post
The average new car price in 2021 was $45k and $40k in 2020.

People think it's cause they handed out $1500 stimulus checks. That doesn't go very far on a $45k vehicle. It's the $8 trillion in other money the government dumped on the economy in 2020, that went into stocks, bitcoin, real estate etc.

The trillions in funny money has inflated the net worth of the top 20% to insane amounts.

That's not going away - so don't expect a hot car to go for MSRP any time soon. (I'm not referring to the Civic Si here).

bUt tHe p0oR PeOpLe sPeNt aLl tHeIr cOmMie mOnEy


Yeah, the economy is in a bubble, so is crypto, inflation is 6.2% (estimated 6.9% for November), shortage of electronic components, etc., etc.. Once this bubble pops, it'll pop hard.
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Old 12-06-2021, 05:58 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post
The average new car price in 2021 was $45k and $40k in 2020.

People think it's cause they handed out $1500 stimulus checks. That doesn't go very far on a $45k vehicle. It's the $8 trillion in other money the government dumped on the economy in 2020, that went into stocks, bitcoin, real estate etc.

The trillions in funny money has inflated the net worth of the top 20% to insane amounts.

That's not going away - so don't expect a hot car to go for MSRP any time soon. (I'm not referring to the Civic Si here).
My boss bought is 2022 F150 lariat. $500 below msrp. Friend bought a new Denali, MSRP. Every single person on the BMW M2 forum who got an allocation for a new M2, at or below msrp. Are there vehicles being sold above? Yes. But not all or even most.
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:01 PM   #290
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Everyone around my QTH drive Trucks. Have to. You need 40 degree departure angle with swampers to go out craters. Twenty five percent of the driving lane is non existent, washed out over past fifty years from no drainage or repairs. They stopped compacting the chips and dumping oil pretending it was tar. Plus, Mom Dad and two daughters each way three hundred pounds. You need three quarter ton crew cab with winches to transport the family usually to all you can eat buffet and cheer leading practice. Usually with a flag blowing in the wind bungee corded to the bed. There kind and will throw on their fireman lights and winch out a compact hatch stuck in mentioned crater.

God Bless America ..

What's that? Where not doing that anymore. O ok sorry
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:06 PM   #291
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Serious question, have you tried buying a car online before? If it has ADM, it's listed. Get E-price usually signifies lower cost but not advertised to competitors.


See my post above. Check and mate.
Of course, that Bell Honda listing was highlighted in a Jalopnik article, they probably got slammed so now they're acting reasonable.

https://jalopnik.com/the-2022-honda-...cus-1848144788

Yes, Honda forum guys are reporting you can get an Si for MSRP if you look around, but many are also saying dealers are asking anywhere from $2k to $7k for ADM or crap they put on the car.

This is insane, imagine trying to get one of the first Type R's next fall.
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:12 PM   #292
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My boss bought is 2022 F150 lariat. $500 below msrp. Friend bought a new Denali, MSRP. Every single person on the BMW M2 forum who got an allocation for a new M2, at or below msrp. Are there vehicles being sold above? Yes. But not all or even most.
Good I hope so, cause there's too many idiots who will pay over MSRP.

My concern is the GR will behave like the Type R, which went out of production before being discounted. I think if it gets 3 diffs it will be as desirable for enthusiasts as a Type R, maybe more.
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:33 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Your whole argument is null. People have always bought what they wanted. Families grow and shrink. Commutes grow and shrink. Jobs grown and shrink, there is always two sides to every car purchasing decision and that cannot be argued.

Part 1) what you need
Part 2) what you want

You need an SUV with some ground clearance to take the kids camping and tow a small boat from time to time while being safe from high waters when it rains or floods.

You WANT a fast fun to drive car that makes you look forward to driving.

This is how something as bombastic as a Porsche Cayenne is born.

Auto companies appeal to what people want more than what they need. Emotional decisions are what entice people to spend big money. Not basic needs.

I would rather have everybody driving 3/4 ton duallies if that is what they want than have what they are allowed to drive dictated by some remote piece of ideologically driven legislation. People are free to choose. Your opinion of what they choose is perfectly fine to have and express at your leisure and I support that. But the choice to impose rules and fines to force people to think like you do is wrong (not that you are doing that).

Quite simply put, a full size truck while large and not ideal for subdivisions is a great road trip vehicle. Plenty of room, great visibility, comfortable, and can easily go 500+ miles on one tank of gas.

A good compromise is the new rash of mid size and compact trucks that should they suit your needs AND wants are great choices.

I will close with this: Nobody needs a turbo AWD manual hatchback with LSD diffs all around. So it should not be sold. It gets poor fuel efficiency and its capabilities cannot be used all the time.

We are all blessed to be in a county that we do not have be sustained on just basic anything. I am happy their are choices for all. Full size truck for you, EV hatch for him, RV for her.

vive la difference
1. People buy for image, or some capability they want but will never use.
2. He had a great point of buying vehicles for intended use. Designated vehicles for specific purposes. His comment about his BOF SUV getting the mileage it does, Iím in the same boat with my compact truck. It is used what it was built for. Towing, and road trips. Due to the mileage it gets, it will last 25 years or whenever rust takes it out. Some of us prefer not to flip flop vehicles every year.
3. Nobody is telling people what to buy or not to buy with the money they earn. Enthusiasts will comment about it. If those comments infuriate you, thatís your own issue.
4. An AWD turbo with front and rear LSDís, with a 6MT, should be sold. I cannot speak for others, but the only time mine will be driven is when all of its capabilities will be used. It will not be driven to the drive thru for sammiches nor commuted in to work. Nor any other bs that a competent and efficient DD would be the better choice for.
5. Want, and need,

Why is this being discussed in the GR Corolla thread? Go make an independent thread in OT about this. And have a big party.
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Old 12-07-2021, 12:39 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
My boss bought is 2022 F150 lariat. $500 below msrp. Friend bought a new Denali, MSRP. Every single person on the BMW M2 forum who got an allocation for a new M2, at or below msrp. Are there vehicles being sold above? Yes. But not all or even most.

To my knowledge, we haven't sold a single vehicle over MSRP and I know some below. Not as many as we used to; but,......


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
1. People buy for image, or some capability they want but will never use.
2. He had a great point of buying vehicles for intended use. Designated vehicles for specific purposes. His comment about his BOF SUV getting the mileage it does, I'm in the same boat with my compact truck. It is used what it was built for. Towing, and road trips. Due to the mileage it gets, it will last 25 years or whenever rust takes it out. Some of us prefer not to flip flop vehicles every year.
3. Nobody is telling people what to buy or not to buy with the money they earn. Enthusiasts will comment about it. If those comments infuriate you, that's your own issue.
4. An AWD turbo with front and rear LSD's, with a 6MT, should be sold. I cannot speak for others, but the only time mine will be driven is when all of its capabilities will be used. It will not be driven to the drive thru for sammiches nor commuted in to work. Nor any other bs that a competent and efficient DD would be the better choice for.
5. Want, and need,

Why is this being discussed in the GR Corolla thread? Go make an independent thread in OT about this. And have a big party.

Keep in mind about your first statement....I won't disagree with the statement for this comment..... that those people are also the ones that allow YOU to have the vehicles YOU want. GR/WRX/STI/FoRS/CTR/Golf R.....doesn't matter......I'd wager that the vast majority buy it for "image" and for a "capability they will never use". But, if they didn't buy it, the really small number of "enthusiasts" buying them, that take them to their potential or to the tracks, wouldn't sustain sales.
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Old 12-07-2021, 02:01 PM   #295
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Kind of veering off topic here folks. ADM, price adjustment is stupid. I mean I can see a tuner willing to foot the bill on a new TYPE R to get a jump on development, and since it's a revenue generator it can be justified. However as a car enthusiast that is something I would never pay. As I said just find another dealer, in state or out of state. Those with deep pockets or desperate to be the first kid on the block won't mind paying out for the attention.

Regardless, let's see what other teasers Toyota puts on the Corolla GR.
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Old 12-07-2021, 02:20 PM   #296
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Keep in mind about your first statement....I won't disagree with the statement for this comment..... that those people are also the ones that allow YOU to have the vehicles YOU want. GR/WRX/STI/FoRS/CTR/Golf R.....doesn't matter......I'd wager that the vast majority buy it for "image" and for a "capability they will never use". But, if they didn't buy it, the really small number of "enthusiasts" buying them, that take them to their potential or to the tracks, wouldn't sustain sales.

The smallest violin in the world is playing. People have poor taste in general. Whether it's film, music, vehicles, anything really. Popular does not always mean quality or performance. Their bad choices of image and functionality they will NEVER use, means we get such poor choices in vehicles.


Next, that performance variant sells the pedestrian crap, so it's a wash. So those vast majority do NOT allow us to have x, y, and z. It's a wash. Performance variants are rolling, driving, marketing vehicles for the manu. So again it's a wash. It's why manus make halo vehicles, and performance variants. They sell the vanilla mobiles.
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Old 12-07-2021, 02:24 PM   #297
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If I get a GR Corolla, I'm takin' it through drive-thrus.

Also goin' fishin' with my buddy.
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Old 12-07-2021, 03:06 PM   #298
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If I get a GR Corolla, I'm takin' it through drive-thrus.

Also goin' fishin' with my buddy.
Same, minus the fishing - kid seats in the back, it will get roof racks & tow bar (assuming no center exhaust), it will never see a track/rally day either; it will be a reasonably fun DD that I'll drive the wheels off of.
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Old 12-07-2021, 03:09 PM   #299
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Honestly, I can't get over the juvenile styling of the Corolla. As much as this car would tick pretty much all of the boxes, I don't think I could spend the kind of money that this will demand. I'm usually function over form and I can overlook minor styling issues that I don't quite like, but I think this is just one that I won't be able to get over.

Still eyeing up a third car in the 2-3 year timeline, but I think I'll be looking more towards a brz/86 or a used M2. Or maybe if they keep this around through a refresh things will improve?
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Old 12-07-2021, 03:26 PM   #300
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Good I hope so, cause there's too many idiots who will pay over MSRP.

My concern is the GR will behave like the Type R, which went out of production before being discounted. I think if it gets 3 diffs it will be as desirable for enthusiasts as a Type R, maybe more.
You Americans are going to get hosed on this car. It's likely going to be low volume with ADM added to most. That's if it ever gets announced and comes to fruition.
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