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Old 01-12-2003, 07:22 PM   #1
RIDEwrx
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Default UPDATE: UTEC not making boost in open or closed loop setting

Has anyone had any problems with the new 2.5b UTEC software (as far as boost)? When I put it in closed loop boost controling it wont go over 8 lbs of boost on the map that I have been running for a long time before the upgrade in software. So I put it back into open loop and it ran fine for about a day. I did a little tuning since the knock sensor is more sensitive now. It was running better and faster (it was great). Then I get in the car today and it ran great for a while but every once in a while it would not go over 10lbs of boost (usually in 2nd and 3rd gear). Then once in a while turned into more often, now it is all the time. I figured maybe I messed up when retuning my boost map, so I put all the settings back to the way I had them before I had adjusted anything. I am still getting the same result. I dont understand why I was running 16.5 lbs yesterday w/out using the aux boost solenoid, and today it is running only 8 to 10 lbs of boost. (yes I checked all of the vacume lines and hoses to make sure there wasnt any leaks). Can anyone offer any advice? Thanks!

Tom
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Last edited by RIDEwrx; 01-12-2003 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 01-12-2003, 07:37 PM   #2
nmyeti
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The closed loop boost scale is 100-500. Did you change your boost map?

-Nathan
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Old 01-12-2003, 07:48 PM   #3
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oh i thought it only went to 100...that would make sense...so I just have to make a new boost map to make the boost rise? Well that explains that. Does txs have a downloadable closed loop boost map available? Also do you know why it was doing that in open loop mode?

Tom
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Old 01-12-2003, 07:59 PM   #4
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Dude,

I hate it when I get told this, but you might want to read their UTEC owner's manual. There is some key information in there. They even highlight the more major stuff. You are running some serious risk of damaging your engine.

TXS won't submit a 'base' map, except for those units that shipped after the latest firmware was released.

If you had it set to open loop, the settings for the boost map are 0-100. For closed loop they are 100-500. If you did have it in open loop, then you weren't walking the razor's edge.

The open loop, from my understanding, is more sensitive to atmospheric changes. Beyond that, I couldn't tell you why it was acting like that in open loop.
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Old 01-12-2003, 08:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by gpatmac
TXS won't submit a 'base' map, except for those units that shipped after the latest firmware was released.
Actually, even with version 2.5b, there is no base closed loop boost map included. All that is included is the open loop map. This is wise, because of the variations in cars. In my friend's car (with the ABC fully closed), 16.5 psi of boost is already at 265. In my car, I need around 410 in order to match the same boost level.

-Mike-
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Old 01-12-2003, 08:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by gpatmac
Dude,

I hate it when I get told this, but you might want to read their UTEC owner's manual. There is some key information in there. They even highlight the more major stuff. You are running some serious risk of damaging your engine.

TXS won't submit a 'base' map, except for those units that shipped after the latest firmware was released.

If you had it set to open loop, the settings for the boost map are 0-100. For closed loop they are 100-500. If you did have it in open loop, then you weren't walking the razor's edge.

The open loop, from my understanding, is more sensitive to atmospheric changes. Beyond that, I couldn't tell you why it was acting like that in open loop.
I appreciate your replys! Does anyone have any reccommended templates for the tuning of the closed loop boost? Just so I know where to begin. - Tom

Last edited by RIDEwrx; 01-12-2003 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 01-12-2003, 10:08 PM   #7
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UPDATE: Ok so i go over the newest set of instructions in depth. I go out to my car and cange back over to closed loop mode. I create a new boost map starting w/ a value of 200 like the directions say. (Still only 8 to 10 psi) ... So I go back and up the value to 280 (still only 8 to 10 psi)... So I go back once again and raise it to a value of 360 (STILL only 8 to 10 psi)... I double checked that I was in the correct map, I checked all the hoses and fittings under the hood and still nothing wrong. Why am I not able to make boost in closed and open loop now? I was doing just fine on open loop yesterday and early today. Can anyone help?

Tom
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Old 01-12-2003, 10:34 PM   #8
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1. Are you modifying the 70, 80, 90, and 100 columns?
2. Are you taking data logs?
3. Do you have the ABC installed? How many turns?
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Old 01-12-2003, 10:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2000vfr800
1. Are you modifying the 70, 80, 90, and 100 columns?
2. Are you taking data logs?
3. Do you have the ABC installed? How many turns?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. yes (closed) ( im pretty sure you dont need to open it much or at all at sea level. Plus it should have shown some kind of boost increase when I increased the value on the chart, but it didn't) hmmmm?
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Old 01-12-2003, 10:53 PM   #10
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The next thing I would do is this quick little test to make sure your wastegate actuator is working correctly. WARNING!!: BE CAREFUL. This test can cause a proble if you aren't VERY careful.

1. Connect your turbo oulet hose right to the wastegate line. Drive the car. You should not get more than 8-10 psi.
2. Disconnect this hose. WARNING:THIS IS THE DANGERIOUS PART!!! Drive it again, but be careful. Your Wastegate WILL NOT OPEN. You should build a lot of boost. This could blow up your engine!!! But, if your boost goes higher than what you are seeing above, your turbo can hold boost. Something is wrong with the ABC/factory boost solenoid connections, or the boost solenoid isn't opening.

Quote:
This is wise, because of the variations in cars. In my friend's car (with the ABC fully closed), 16.5 psi of boost is already at 265. In my car, I need around 410 in order to match the same boost level.
On a side note...can anybody explain how this is closed loop? If closed loop is based on MAP, why is 16.5 psi different on two different cars?
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Old 01-12-2003, 11:35 PM   #11
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Man that will be scary! Iwill have to keep a close eye on my boost level! I wonder if something has gone bad w/ the factory boost solenoid. If you remember i said it was gradually getting worse and worse when i was in back in open loop mode. Maybe something is wrong with that, or maybe even the waste gate. that would really suck!! What would have caused this to happen? And what would I do to fix it if that was the problem? any ideas?

Last edited by RIDEwrx; 01-12-2003 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 01-12-2003, 11:43 PM   #12
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Ok, now I'm with Tom as I've hit the limit of my experience with the 2.5 firmware.

I had just recently installed 2.5 and was just starting to experiment with the boost map. I started out at 0 turns on the ABC and 200's on the map. Incidentally, I never really experimented with the boost map on the old firmware, rather I utilized the ABC to control boost.

Since I've installed the 2.5 software, though, I wanted to experiment with the boost map before I would adjust the ABC. Once I got to the point where I was comfortable adjusting the map, I figured I'd start experimenting with the opening up ABC...I'd start at 200 again, of course, within the map.

The only problem is, I had to deploy for training recently, and didn't get the chance to fully experiment. I had gotten my boost map variables up to around 400, but was still not seeing much boost. Again, I had not opened up the ABC yet.

I race down near sea-level and live at no more than about 900 ft. I'm a st2 w/ uppipe. Additionally, I had been using the TXS ABC well before I got the UTEC, as I had bought it cheap from a friend with a unichip; with pretty good results.

Question is, since there are 2 'controls' of boost when dealing with the UTEC, when do you want to control boost with the map and when do you want to control it with the ABC? I thought that the ABC was originally intended for those who lived at a higher elevation, or needed more boost than 18lbs.
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Old 01-13-2003, 12:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by gpatmac
Ok, now I'm with Tom as I've hit the limit of my experience with the 2.5 firmware.

I had just recently installed 2.5 and was just starting to experiment with the boost map. I started out at 0 turns on the ABC and 200's on the map. Incidentally, I never really experimented with the boost map on the old firmware, rather I utilized the ABC to control boost.

Since I've installed the 2.5 software, though, I wanted to experiment with the boost map before I would adjust the ABC. Once I got to the point where I was comfortable adjusting the map, I figured I'd start experimenting with the opening up ABC...I'd start at 200 again, of course, within the map.

The only problem is, I had to deploy for training recently, and didn't get the chance to fully experiment. I had gotten my boost map variables up to around 400, but was still not seeing much boost. Again, I had not opened up the ABC yet.

I race down near sea-level and live at no more than about 900 ft. I'm a st2 w/ uppipe. Additionally, I had been using the TXS ABC well before I got the UTEC, as I had bought it cheap from a friend with a unichip; with pretty good results.

Question is, since there are 2 'controls' of boost when dealing with the UTEC, when do you want to control boost with the map and when do you want to control it with the ABC? I thought that the ABC was originally intended for those who lived at a higher elevation, or needed more boost than 18lbs.

I think that the ABC is just for if you are above sea level only. Because it is an elementry way of controlling boost. The computer is much safer and you know exactly what it is doing and when. I just cant figure out why I cant make boost!
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Old 01-13-2003, 01:54 PM   #14
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I talked to Nathan @ TXS this morning and he thinks that it could be a bad factory boost solenoid. That would make sense since it isnt making boost in either closed or open loop mode. I will have to check it out.

THANKS FOR THE HELP NATHAN! I REALLY APPRECIATE IT!!

p.s. the solenoid is like $130 from subaru (ouch).
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Old 01-13-2003, 01:59 PM   #15
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Yea...Nathan is a great guy!!! Hope it's the boost solenoid that is causing the problem and you get it fixed. Keep us posted.
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Old 01-13-2003, 08:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2000vfr800
The next thing I would do is this quick little test to make sure your wastegate actuator is working correctly. WARNING!!: BE CAREFUL. This test can cause a proble if you aren't VERY careful.

1. Connect your turbo oulet hose right to the wastegate line. Drive the car. You should not get more than 8-10 psi.
2. Disconnect this hose. WARNING:THIS IS THE DANGERIOUS PART!!! Drive it again, but be careful. Your Wastegate WILL NOT OPEN. You should build a lot of boost. This could blow up your engine!!! But, if your boost goes higher than what you are seeing above, your turbo can hold boost. Something is wrong with the ABC/factory boost solenoid connections, or the boost solenoid isn't opening.
UPDATE: Ok so I do this test I take the boost controller completely out of line and just run the compressor to the waste gate (only get 5 lbs of boost) I hook it back up the way it was, and then take the waste gate completely out of line. (only 8 lbs of boost) So what I think is that the boost solenoid is fine and my waste gate is stuck open. Does that sound like it is a good guess? If so what the heck should I do to correct the problem? And what would have caused this?? Please help me!

Tom
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Old 01-13-2003, 08:50 PM   #17
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So...you totally disconnected the wastegate line so it's to the open air and you still can't make more than 8 psi? Is it the stock turbo?
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Old 01-13-2003, 09:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2000vfr800
So...you totally disconnected the wastegate line so it's to the open air and you still can't make more than 8 psi? Is it the stock turbo?
Yes it is. I have too many mods to go back to the factory and have it fixed under warranty! I just went through a bunch of crap w/ my leaking radiator, and in the end after a lot of hassle they still did nothing for me. So I just bought the MRT aluminum one w/ samco hoses. but anyway yes it was open air and not going over 8lbs of boost.

Tom
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Old 01-13-2003, 11:04 PM   #19
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The next thing I would do (I've never actually done it so I can't give you specific instructions) is disconnect the wastegate actuator from the wastegate valve. This is the connecting rod on your turbo. By disconnecting this, you can determine if it's the wastegate actuator or the wastegate itself...

Now, I'm not sure where the wastegate spring is, but maybe the wastegate spring (the spring that holds the wastegate shut) is broken. That could also explain why when you connected the turbo outlet right to the wastegate actuator, you only got 5 psi vs. 8-10 psi which is the normal wastegate spring force...
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Old 01-14-2003, 02:09 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2000vfr800
The next thing I would do (I've never actually done it so I can't give you specific instructions) is disconnect the wastegate actuator from the wastegate valve. This is the connecting rod on your turbo. By disconnecting this, you can determine if it's the wastegate actuator or the wastegate itself...

Now, I'm not sure where the wastegate spring is, but maybe the wastegate spring (the spring that holds the wastegate shut) is broken. That could also explain why when you connected the turbo outlet right to the wastegate actuator, you only got 5 psi vs. 8-10 psi which is the normal wastegate spring force...
I will give it a try tomorrow morning...Doesn't sound like i can do that before I go to work though.... This sucks not having any boost! Ok I will keep u posted on what happens and what I find. Check back on tue night. Thanks for the help!

Tom
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Old 01-14-2003, 11:52 AM   #21
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Default UPDATE:

UPDATE: Ok here is the latest. I did a press/vac test on the waste gate. It is holding press just fine. So this tells me that the waste gate should be ok. I think that there could possibly be a leak in the actual turbo housing or maybe in the intercooler piping. That is the only other thing that I can think of. I double and triple checked all the hoses and vac lines everywhere. Everything is connected and clamped/zip tired. So no idea. But when I take the wastegate open air completely out of line it still won' go over 8 lbs of boost. So it has to be leaking boost somewhere somehow. It should be over boosting when I do that and it isn't. Like i said before it didnt just happen flip of a light switch...it gradually got worse and worse over the course of 1 1/2 days. So possible the leak got bigger and bigger.?. ... HMMM Any ideas?
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Old 01-14-2003, 11:54 AM   #22
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What exactly did you do when you tested your wastegate actuator?
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Old 01-14-2003, 12:16 PM   #23
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Un hooked it and hooked up a vac/press testing device to it and it was holding press just fine. I un hooked it on one end and then on both ends. I took the little rod off the exhaust housing and checked it out thouroughly, and press tested it with the rod off as well. While i was doing all of this I turned the car on and went back under the hood and pulled the throt. cable and gave it some revs to see if i could hear any leaks. I smelled exhaust which isn't any good (guess i have an exhause leak (just cant find it) it is either in the up or down pipe. But that wont leak boost. So I think it is either (worst case) the compressor housing has a crack or leak, or the stock intercooler piping is leaking or there is a leak in the manifold. I have no idea where to begin! I dont want to disassemble the whole damn engine! So if you have any other ideas that it could be that might save me from taking it all apart that would be great!

Tom

Last edited by RIDEwrx; 01-14-2003 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 01-14-2003, 05:28 PM   #24
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Did you move the rod while it was disconnect? If so, was it easy to move, or could you feel tension (like a spring holding it closed)?

If you are leaking badly at the up-pipe/turbo connection, then you won't build boost. Most of the exhaust will exit instead of going throught the turbo. Same with a manifold, or manifold/uppipe leak.

Make sure your EGT sensor didn't pop out...
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Old 01-15-2003, 08:46 AM   #25
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bad boost gauge?
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