I want to build a 2.x engine

[FuJi K]

Originally Posted by Anthonydinatale

Way to many combinations to think about.

I talked to Terry at p&l last night and he said I don't have to port match the heads for an ej257 block is this true?

well I'm sorry. If that was too much to think about.... just slap that 16G on and go.

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[wrx surfwagon]

Originally Posted by FuJi K

a simple engine setup for that power goal would be something like this:
EJ205 with forged pistons 8.5:1
STi rods
STi cams (plugged) and STi valvesprings
light cleanup of the ports or even enlarged intake ports and exhausts
800cc injectors
big maf
DW300 fuel pump
TD05H 20G 7cm with EWG
nice fmic

I know were not aspposed to ask about prices, but would it be cheaper to do this than buy a v7/ v8? Seems like they would be close except not being able to wind it out..

And Fuji, thank you SO much for this thread and similar ones elsewhere... monumentally helpful and answers a ton of questions about things I can't afford

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by wrx surfwagon

I know were not aspposed to ask about prices, but would it be cheaper to do this than buy a v7/ v8? Seems like they would be close except not being able to wind it out..

http://jdmracingmotors.com/Index.php?p=vpe&pid=138#c

[wrx surfwagon]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

http://jdmracingmotors.com/Index.php?p=vpe&pid=138#c

I"m not sure what you mean. Are you saying for the same price as the lightly built 205 i could get the v7 with tranny/drivetrain? Or were you just directing me to where to buy one. Either way, i'm pretty sure my question was dumb because I'd have to pay a shop to assemble the motor, which would likely put it way over the price of the v7.. i didnt take that into account. <-- closest smiley i could find for "i'm an idiot"

[morrocco88]

SO after reading this and thinking about all the combinations, could a guy build a 2.0L and use the +2mm rods commonly used for de-stroking a 2.5L, and just use like Mahle stroker pistons made for a 79mm stroke? So I guess it would be a longer rod 2.0L. Would that make it more reliable and have less side loading of the piston, or would it not even be worth doing. I'm really curious?

Although I'm seriously considering a budget 2.35 de-stroker, +2 rods, 9.0:1 CP shelf pistons with 08' wrx D25 heads, Crower 272 cams, BC springs and retainers, with like a BW turbo 35R size or a hair smaller. I wonder what the CR would be with the CP psitons, 50cc wrx heads and de-stroked with +2?

Just a smooth revving street car with higher compression to help with mileage and a little better off boost power.

Great thread!

[Homemade WRX]

you could do that 2.0L but you'd have really low compression ratio.

Run your numbers for CR. It isn't hard.

[FuJi K]

a couple 2.1's coming

[Murderous]

Wow lots of words, good little hand book for beginner builders

[SparkArrestor]

Great info!

I think of doing this;

EJ16 Crank (65.8 stroke)
Steel sleeved closed deck 103mm
CP-pistons with EJ257 pin location
9:1 CR
Custom long rod
2.2L (2193.3cc)
Twin-Scroll GT3076

12000rpm safe

Do or don't?

(Just finished a 103mm bore 2 cyl engine with equal stroke, produces 150hp at the drive wheel as N/A..)

[CatfaceType-R]

a twinscroll turbo the size of a 30r won't make power at 12000rpm...

[Homemade WRX]

Originally Posted by SparkArrestor

Great info!

I think of doing this;

EJ16 Crank (65.8 stroke)
Steel sleeved closed deck 103mm
CP-pistons with EJ257 pin location
9:1 CR
Custom long rod
2.2L (2193.3cc)
Twin-Scroll GT3076

12000rpm safe

Do or don't?

don't because you won't find an off the shelf drivetrain to handle it. You can have it made but that quote scared away one of my deepest pocket customers

[FuJi K]

fast input shaft speed and everything connected to it in the tranny!!!

[SparkArrestor]

Gotit.
Will keep the 75mm crank instead then.

102mm bore will give a good 2450cc

(sorry 'bout the misprint, there was supposed to be a 2x in front of the turbo charger.)

[Subikid90]

Has anyone used these Wiseco pistons in a EJ22T with 08+ STi crank (79mm stroke) and STi stock rods (130.5mm). I am doing the #5 thrust conversion, boring it 0.20 over and running EJ205 heads.

http://www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/Sport...baruToyota.pdf
K602M975

If I am correct this piston would give me around a 8.2:1 compression ratio with EJ22E thickness headgaskets.

[FuJi K]

^^^^^
That should be right.

[kakarot09]

Whats the EJ22E gasket thickness? I must be doing something wrong because I get that it's under 8:1 unless you use the .5-.6mm gaskets. I'm not sure which is the right thickness either. A lot of people said .6mm but Wiseco says the sti thickness is .5mm.

[Jagular1785]

EJ22e should be .051" IIRC

[ballitch]

I love this thread. Great job Fuji. All the numbers in my head are on internet paper, subscribe.


~Josh~

[FuJi K]

Originally Posted by kakarot09

Whats the EJ22E gasket thickness? I must be doing something wrong because I get that it's under 8:1 unless you use the .5-.6mm gaskets. I'm not sure which is the right thickness either. A lot of people said .6mm but Wiseco says the sti thickness is .5mm.

Compression ratio slightly under because the compression height is smaller than a EJ257. Those pistons you're looking at are for a phase1 crank. When you change that crank and the rods to phase2 spec, compression height will alter the compression ratio.

Check out the PDF file in your post again. You can see the different rod lengths, and compression heights. But hey, my car drove fine with the stock EJ22T piston and WRX 50cc heads. Those pistons have DEEP dishes to get the 8.0:1 with the 40cc EJ22T chambers.

[Subikid90]

Originally Posted by FuJi K

^^^^^
That should be right.

I found this yeasterday, now I am confused lol

Originally Posted by eastcoastbumps

If you look at Wiseco's catalog, you'll see that they designed that piston around the phase I crank and rods. The phase II rods are shorter, so they will drop your compression ratio. You would have to deck your heads or use thinner head gaskets to bump your compression ratio back up, or a combo of both.

I considered using these pistons before, but ended up going with a custom set of CP's for my stroker build.

The block height is 201mm

79mm stroke/2 + 131.6 phase I rod length + 30.25 comp. height = 201.35
Thats .35mm over deck. Use an EJ22 1.37mm head gasket and you have -24cc dish. With a SOHC 2.5 46.6cc head you have 8.5 compression ratio. An EJ20 48cc head will drop that to 8.4.

79mm stroke/2 + 130.5 phase II rod length + 30.25 comp. height = 200.25
Thats .75mm under deck. Use an EJ22 1.37mm head gasket and a SOHC 2.5 46.6cc head and you have a 7.8 CR. EJ20 head yeilds a 7.7 CR and an EJ257 head will give you a 7.4 CR.

[kakarot09]

Originally Posted by Subikid90

I found this yeasterday, now I am confused lol

Your second quote is what I found to be correct. Around 7.6-7.7:1 with the pistons you mentioned, phase 2 79mm stroke crank with matching 130.5mm length rods, 1.37mm headgasket that I assumed is 98mm diameter, ej20 48-49cc heads. If you went with a .6mm gasket thickness still at 98mm diameter you'd get ~8.1:1 cr. If you used the phase 1 79mm crank and rods you'd have different numbers but you said you're doing the newer crank out of an sti which is phase 2.

[kakarot09]

Originally Posted by FuJi K

Compression ratio slightly under because the compression height is smaller than a EJ257. Those pistons you're looking at are for a phase1 crank. When you change that crank and the rods to phase2 spec, compression height will alter the compression ratio.

Check out the PDF file in your post again. You can see the different rod lengths, and compression heights. But hey, my car drove fine with the stock EJ22T piston and WRX 50cc heads. Those pistons have DEEP dishes to get the 8.0:1 with the 40cc EJ22T chambers.

I think you got confused with who started this topic lol. I didn't post a pdf link. But yeah I saw the pistons were for the phase 1 crank originally, the thing is he's using the phase 2 crank and rods which is why I get lower than 8:1 compression ratio. It's a shorter rod now and the a smaller compression height so the compressed volume is larger and thus the ratio (compressed+swept volume)/compressed volume is now smaller. Unles I overlooked something then the 8.2 number he originally posted does not look correct at all. Basically around .5 lower than that. In addition the quench height will be around 2mm larger than an sti not taking into account the headgasket which may also make it larger if he uses a 1.37mm gasket. This just doesn't really sound like a great combo to me but my understanding of quench height is pretty limited so I just assumed if it's that much larger than stock it's a bad idea. I'm guessing this motor would need a lot of boost to make any power.

[nutboy]

Fuji K. May I ask you a few questions for enlightenment.

1. If you change the engine CC ( 2.0 - 2.2) the bore size increases what else? Does the piston height, rod length, crankshaft remain the same?

2. How do you change the compression of the motor? By the piston dishes, rod length, piston height or crankshaft?

P.S : I'm a newbie here still quite not into the engine stuff. Sorry bout that and thank you

[FuJi K]

Originally Posted by kakarot09

I think you got confused with who started this topic lol. I didn't post a pdf link. But yeah I saw the pistons were for the phase 1 crank originally, the thing is he's using the phase 2 crank and rods which is why I get lower than 8:1 compression ratio. It's a shorter rod now and the a smaller compression height so the compressed volume is larger and thus the ratio (compressed+swept volume)/compressed volume is now smaller. Unles I overlooked something then the 8.2 number he originally posted does not look correct at all. Basically around .5 lower than that. In addition the quench height will be around 2mm larger than an sti not taking into account the headgasket which may also make it larger if he uses a 1.37mm gasket. This just doesn't really sound like a great combo to me but my understanding of quench height is pretty limited so I just assumed if it's that much larger than stock it's a bad idea. I'm guessing this motor would need a lot of boost to make any power.

Yes, I read again.. lol

Originally Posted by nutboy

Fuji K. May I ask you a few questions for enlightenment.

1. If you change the engine CC ( 2.0 - 2.2) the bore size increases what else? Does the piston height, rod length, crankshaft remain the same?

2. How do you change the compression of the motor? By the piston dishes, rod length, piston height or crankshaft?

P.S : I'm a newbie here still quite not into the engine stuff. Sorry bout that and thank you

1. The change in engine size can be bore is stroke. Running an OEM EJ22 runs a 97mm bore with a 75mm crank. Running a bored over EJ20 with 79mm crank also makes it come close to 2.2L. These are just two of the ways that makes it a 2.2L. The stroker you can keep the rod length the same, but change the compression height to make up for the increase stroke.

2. If you plan to change just the compression ratio of the engine from what it currently is, it's best to do that by changing the piston's dish.

[johnt2k7]

Originally Posted by nutboy

Fuji K. May I ask you a few questions for enlightenment.

1. If you change the engine CC ( 2.0 - 2.2) the bore size increases what else? Does the piston height, rod length, crankshaft remain the same?

2. How do you change the compression of the motor? By the piston dishes, rod length, piston height or crankshaft?

P.S : I'm a newbie here still quite not into the engine stuff. Sorry bout that and thank you

im sure Fuji will chime back in and im no exert on subaru builds but everything you listed will change your compression ration.

the more area you add to the combustion chamber the more you will raise you final displacement but in turn will affect your compression ratio. you cant mess with one without effecting the other. its all a balancing game


their are so many factors that effect final displacement and final compression ratio. piston diameter, piston dish/crown, distance from piston top to pin center,rod length, crank diameter, head gasket thickness, head CC's, deck height & prolly more that i cant remember off the top of my head.