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Old 05-04-2019, 06:21 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Prepare For Battery Metal Shortage: Tesla

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Old 05-04-2019, 11:20 AM   #2
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sell your TSLA stock and buy the metals
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Old 05-04-2019, 11:31 AM   #3
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I wonder if accurate statement or excuse for declining demand (assuming demand keeps declining).
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Old 05-04-2019, 11:55 AM   #4
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This sounds like a more long term concern on their part, imo.
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Old 05-04-2019, 01:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
I wonder if accurate statement or excuse for declining demand (assuming demand keeps declining).
The way it works is right now these metals are so cheap that mining companies aren't investing that much in new mines or exploration.

Tesla as a buyer of these metals wants to ensure they stay cheap, so they're trying to get miners to spend money to explore, by predicting a shortage.
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Old 05-04-2019, 02:27 PM   #6
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But this contradicts recent statements made by Panasonic. I call BS.
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Old 05-04-2019, 03:30 PM   #7
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But this contradicts recent statements made by Panasonic. I call BS.
Tesla is a mountain of BS, so that's a safe bet.
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Old 05-04-2019, 11:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
I wonder if accurate statement or excuse for declining demand (assuming demand keeps declining).
Demand will accelerate as China and EU govts incentivize EVs while pulling out the whip on IC autos especially diesels . But that could change very fast once they figure out the poor sucker can convert the gasoline or diesel to CNG/LPG natural gas and actually be cleaner at very little cost. The over stress to electric grid will soon hit and ENRON moment hit again and owners will feel the single source withdrawal. The clean era to NG and Hydrogen fuel cells will take hold.
Of course if a clean strong way to generate electricity come to age like fusion reactors and a battery that can charge in under 5min and got 500mi this could change too .Meanwhile they missed great opportunity for the cleanest cheapest electricity Hydro Electric and double benefit to California would be lots of clean water for cities and farms. Looks like it's ENRON Brown...outs again

Last edited by Masterauto; 05-06-2019 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:51 AM   #9
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EV plus solar panels on your roof + good household battery tech would be good. Or a household fuel cell if there's some breakthroughs there.

Charging your EV with a coal-powered lossy electrical grid and thinking you're saving the planet is just retarded.
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:54 PM   #10
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EV plus solar panels on your roof + good household battery tech would be good. Or a household fuel cell if there's some breakthroughs there.

Charging your EV with a coal-powered lossy electrical grid and thinking you're saving the planet is just retarded.
Wrong. Coal is down to ~30% of our power, from almost 50% 10+ years ago.

https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmu...to-get-cleaner

Of course, panels/storage is better, but as the grid gets cleaner, so do EVs.
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:08 PM   #11
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Wrong. Coal is down to ~30% of our power, from almost 50% 10+ years ago.

https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmu...to-get-cleaner

Of course, panels/storage is better, but as the grid gets cleaner, so do EVs.
Coal, natural gas, and nuclear power plants make up 75% of our power grid. All heavy greenhouse polluters.

Hydro is another 7%, and is an environmental disaster, so that's hardly something greenies should celebrate.

All the EV does is pollute somewhere else instead of from your tailpipe, and worse than your gas-powered car if you factor in the manufacturing costs & battery disposal. Those precious metals are dug out of the ground in a very energy-intensive manner.



EVs are a big practical joke on the environment.
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:48 PM   #12
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Wrong again.

https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicle...e-ev-emissions

And it's actually good that the emissions are moved from the tailpipe to somewhere else. "Somewhere else" generally isn't in urban populated places where most of the population has to directly breath it in, causing health issues (and health care costs), premature deaths, and potentially raising the crime rate.

Personally, I'd rather dig stuff out the ground and re-use it for the lifetime of the vehicle/PV panel/turbine, than to dig it up and burn it once. EVs and renewables are about having your cake, and eating it too.
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Old 05-05-2019, 03:50 PM   #13
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Wrong again.

https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicle...e-ev-emissions

And it's actually good that the emissions are moved from the tailpipe to somewhere else. "Somewhere else" generally isn't in urban populated places where most of the population has to directly breath it in, causing health issues (and health care costs), premature deaths, and potentially raising the crime rate.

Personally, I'd rather dig stuff out the ground and re-use it for the lifetime of the vehicle/PV panel/turbine, than to dig it up and burn it once. EVs and renewables are about having your cake, and eating it too.
Yeah, that's great, pollute someone else instead of yourself. Even better that a most rare metals are mined in places like Russia or Africa - so rich Seattle suburbanites can keep their land pristine.

The very nature of EVs will limit their use. They're full of exotic metals that are only readily available cause there are so few EVs. Same could be said of catalytic converters, if we run out of platinum and paladium, that'll curtail their use.

You don't have to worry in Oregon though, the Cascadia earthquake will trash the place long before exhaust pipe pollution does.
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Old 05-05-2019, 05:59 PM   #14
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Knots in my backyard.
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:40 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit View Post
Wrong. Coal is down to ~30% of our power, from almost 50% 10+ years ago.

https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmu...to-get-cleaner

Of course, panels/storage is better, but as the grid gets cleaner, so do EVs.
Germany great failed green agenda forced to buy coal, oil and gas from old friends Russia
thousands solar panels destroyed recently in SW USA by hail. The best you can expect id less than 30% using wind and Solar and cost soars over .40 KWhr as we pay average .12 KWhr. Are you ready for an over $500. mo electric bill ?
https://energy-charts.de/power.htm
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:34 AM   #16
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Germany's problem is that they shut down their nuclear and replaced it with coal and imports.

Narrator: That was not a smart move.

http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/prices.aspx Average wholesale cost in California right now is 4c/kwh, with almost half from renewables.

Renewables are cheaper to operate.
https://www.lazard.com/perspective/l...-storage-2018/

The great thing is, despite your claims, it's now an economic argument, and that's why they'll win in the long term. Or do you want to pay more to get your power from coal?
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/maj...-finds/551187/

Or we can just keep dealing the side effects of burning coal.
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/tox...d-indu/551339/
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Old 05-06-2019, 01:14 PM   #17
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Extracting and shipping coal around the world to be burned is a win for everyone.
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Old 05-06-2019, 01:52 PM   #18
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Maybe one day we can rationally discuss EVs with facts and evidence and not get dragged into alt right fever swamp of misinformation and concern trolling. Then I remember we're still arguing about vaccinations, the shape of the Earth, and evolution - so why should this be any different?

Sigh.
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Old 05-06-2019, 01:57 PM   #19
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So long as volcanoes exist, not ever gonna happen. Dudes wanna peel the onion in every thread.
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Old 05-06-2019, 02:55 PM   #20
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Maybe one day we can rationally discuss EVs with facts and evidence and not get dragged into alt right fever swamp of misinformation and concern trolling. Then I remember we're still arguing about vaccinations, the shape of the Earth, and evolution - so why should this be any different?

Sigh.
maybe one day but when you are faced with half truths from the EV side, along with billionaire worship and virtue signalizing the debate is more emotion than fact.

The most energy dense substance commercially available to the common man is oil. We will burn every single drop of it before we switch over, to the next energy dense substance. No matter how much you prop up EV you still have this fact that it takes lots of oil and coal to build EV's around the world. I would rather the US burns it in its clean factories than China or India.

Germanies great failed experiment is showing as they build more coal plants to keep prices down. Yup it was due to shutting down nuclear too soon. France is mostly splitting atoms and they have the cheapest energy in all of Europe. Germany shows us stupid politicians whose main goal is to pat them-self on the back to look good hurt the common man who is paying a fortune for electrical power.

Going to renewable energy is smart. But while fossil fuels are carrying the load of the country and its whole economy, renewables are still in their infancy. They need time to grow. However, I question whether you could ever make enough solar panels to power the country 24/7/365.

A solution is undeniably a combination of both and remaining flexible. This all of one or the other is dumb. And any politician who says otherwise is lying or incompetent or both (probably both).

I welcome solar if it is implemented smartly. Currently it is not a match for me.
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Old 05-06-2019, 04:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
Maybe one day we can rationally discuss EVs with facts and evidence and not get dragged into alt right fever swamp of misinformation and concern trolling. Then I remember we're still arguing about vaccinations, the shape of the Earth, and evolution - so why should this be any different?

Sigh.
Problem is that both sides of the argument think the other is misinformed when both sides are highly misinformed. In 15 years we will all look back, shake our heads and laugh about how wrong we all were.
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Old 05-06-2019, 04:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
Maybe one day we can rationally discuss EVs with facts and evidence and not get dragged into alt right fever swamp of misinformation and concern trolling. Then I remember we're still arguing about vaccinations, the shape of the Earth, and evolution - so why should this be any different?

Sigh.
A big problem here is that Tesla is effectively a proxy in the climate change debate.

-----

Sure, oil/coal is very energy dense. It's also expensive to extract/refine/transport, just to burn it at the point of use. Are you willing to pay more to get your power from coal?
Quote:
For the first time, the Berkshire Hathaway-owned utility has outlined a plan that could save customers money by retiring coal plants early
https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...y-alternatives

No one but the President is saying we need to move so fast we can't watch TV because the wind isn't blowing But make no mistake, we are moving towards renewables.
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Old 05-06-2019, 07:40 PM   #23
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A big problem here is that Tesla is effectively a proxy in the climate change debate.
Well, only for morons. Oh yeah, that's basically everyone now - you sir, are correct!
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Old 05-06-2019, 07:55 PM   #24
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You argue with morons long enough...
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:55 AM   #25
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...source=twitter
Panasonic Corp., the Japanese company that makes the batteries that power Tesla Inc.’s electric vehicles, predicted falling annual earnings on restructuring expenses and higher costs at its automotive business and other units.

The Japanese company said Thursday that full-year sales, operating income and net income will all decline. The company also cited falling sales at its industrial solutions business in China.

Last month, Tesla Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk tweeted that Panasonic was operating at a pace that’s constrained production of Tesla’s Model 3 sedan. On Thursday, CEO Kazuhiro Tsuga said Panasonic’s aim this year is to ramp up output before considering more investment.

“Batteries will run out if Tesla starts to sell the Model Y and expands its business next year,” he told reporters. “What will we do then? It’s one of a few topics to discuss with Tesla, including battery (production) in China.”

Read More: Musk Duels Panasonic in Rare Public Battle With Key Supplier

Tesla and Panasonic have been joined at the hip since the gigafactory agreement was first announced in July 2014, even if on paper they’re a bit of an odd couple. One is a 16-year-old maker of electric vehicles run by an impetuous boss, the other a century-old conservative Japanese manufacturer.

Shares of Panasonic were little changed in Tokyo before the company reported earnings. The stock has lost about 1% this year, giving the company a market value of about $22 billion.
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