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Old 05-09-2019, 11:47 AM   #26
Pre
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Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
Maybe one day we can rationally discuss EVs with facts and evidence and not get dragged into alt right fever swamp of misinformation and concern trolling. Then I remember we're still arguing about vaccinations, the shape of the Earth, and evolution - so why should this be any different?

Sigh.
Won't happen here. Too many are far too based into their personal politics so if you read between the lines that's what comes out.

Every time I'm around anyone and this subject comes up (locally and on here), it's immediately "that battery pack you have is worse than a hummer" or "Yeah but that power you use is coal etc". I then explain about having solar panels so the EV is 100% fueled by the sun and they want to argue some more, cut themself off, and immediately change the subject.

What is fascinating to me is all the people who think just because you drive an EV that you are some kale eating standing in front of a bulldozer underneath a tree granola libtard person. When you tell them it was a financial decision their bird sized brains just can't compute. Then they get real pissed off when you explain what your monthly fuel costs are. Change is just scary as Chuckie or Freddy Kruger to so many. Crying all along the way. Pissing and moaning when you can still buy whatever oil burning thing you want on the market with no law stating you have to buy an EV, solar panels, etc.

Dismissing all politics I find it interesting that we are currently using 1.7 times the natural resources that the Earth can produce. That isn't sustainable. Even the Astronauts on the ISS can see the damage from space. The wildfires, deforestation, ice caps melting, etc. We don't start taking care of this place instead of pillaging it, it won't last. Just too many damn people on the planet. As long as we recycle all batteries EV's are a great piece of the pie. Even if you break it down to just local air pollution. Then there are these people who complain about windmills and solar panels. That just blows my mind. The ISS uses solar panels to power that f'er so if it's good enough for Astronauts, NASA, man it's good enough for us as well.
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Old 05-09-2019, 12:15 PM   #27
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The planet will last.


Won't be the first time it killed off a species of Hominid, but it will be the last.

Looking through human history, the last 30,000 or so years has been the first time we have been alone as a species.


We're facing extinction.
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Old 05-09-2019, 12:38 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
The planet will last.


Won't be the first time it killed off a species of Hominid, but it will be the last.

Looking through human history, the last 30,000 or so years has been the first time we have been alone as a species.


We're facing extinction.
From a giant meteor? Yep. Every damn day.

--kC
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:55 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Won't happen here. Too many are far too based into their personal politics so if you read between the lines that's what comes out.

Every time I'm around anyone and this subject comes up (locally and on here), it's immediately "that battery pack you have is worse than a hummer" or "Yeah but that power you use is coal etc". I then explain about having solar panels so the EV is 100% fueled by the sun and they want to argue some more, cut themself off, and immediately change the subject.

What is fascinating to me is all the people who think just because you drive an EV that you are some kale eating standing in front of a bulldozer underneath a tree granola libtard person. When you tell them it was a financial decision their bird sized brains just can't compute. Then they get real pissed off when you explain what your monthly fuel costs are. Change is just scary as Chuckie or Freddy Kruger to so many. Crying all along the way. Pissing and moaning when you can still buy whatever oil burning thing you want on the market with no law stating you have to buy an EV, solar panels, etc.

Dismissing all politics I find it interesting that we are currently using 1.7 times the natural resources that the Earth can produce. That isn't sustainable. Even the Astronauts on the ISS can see the damage from space. The wildfires, deforestation, ice caps melting, etc. We don't start taking care of this place instead of pillaging it, it won't last. Just too many damn people on the planet. As long as we recycle all batteries EV's are a great piece of the pie. Even if you break it down to just local air pollution. Then there are these people who complain about windmills and solar panels. That just blows my mind. The ISS uses solar panels to power that f'er so if it's good enough for Astronauts, NASA, man it's good enough for us as well.
Trust me, you do not want to live like Astronauts have to live. The best choice for deep space exploration is nuclear, solar is not dependable or robust. It is used because that is the ONLY resource they have. It was not picked because it is the best choice , it is picked because it is the ONLY choice. But all your other points if true I have zero issues with.
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:59 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Trust me, you do not want to live like Astronauts have to live. The best choice for deep space exploration is nuclear, solar is not dependable or robust. It is used because that is the ONLY resource they have. It was not picked because it is the best choice , it is picked because it is the ONLY choice. But all your other points if true I have zero issues with.
Did, did you seriously, literally, just prove his point? He's not talking about deep space exploration at all.
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:40 PM   #31
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Did, did you seriously, literally, just prove his point? He's not talking about deep space exploration at all.
I agree with him on most of his his points. I do not agree about all the ridiculous head exploding comments when he mentions fuel cost, but I will let that slide.
I just wanted to clarify that solar panels are not the best solution for astronauts, but it was the only solution.

We will have fossil fuels for decades to come with ease but I think constantly developing alternate fuels is smart.
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:25 PM   #32
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Coal, natural gas, and nuclear power plants make up 75% of our power grid. All heavy greenhouse polluters.
How do you figure nukes are heavy greenhouse polluters? Coal is huge, and gas is only a bit better but nukes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit View Post
And it's actually good that the emissions are moved from the tailpipe to somewhere else.
The good thing is that power plants are more strictly regulated than cars, so their emissions per unit of energy are generally lower, at least from natural gas fired plants. Of course nukes and renewables don't directly impact air pollution but for the energy it took to make the machines. The "not in my backyard" approach is fatally flawed, imho. But I've spent my career trying to build these things so I am admittedly biased.

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Originally Posted by Masterauto View Post
Germany great failed green agenda forced to buy coal, oil and gas from old friends Russia
thousands solar panels destroyed recently in SW USA by hail. The best you can expect id less than 30% using wind and Solar and cost soars over .40 KWhr as we pay average .12 KWhr. Are you ready for an over $500. mo electric bill ?
https://energy-charts.de/power.htm
Solar is being sold under long term contract right now for about $0.03/kWh. Your $0.40 is well over 10 years old and an order of magnitude off of the current market. 8 years ago it was about $0.12/kWh. Ironically, we have Germany to thank for these low prices as their feed in tariff was the catalyst for solar panels becoming cheaper due to demand and economies of scale kicking in. Obviously the grid requires flexible generation to follow load be it the form of gas turbines, dispatchable hydro or energy storage. Google "CAISO duck curve" if you are curious.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:56 AM   #33
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:59 PM   #34
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I’ve already given you points before and I’ll remind you this last time, stop posting crap not directly related to the thread subject. All you’re doing is blasting stupid **** which may or may not compete with Tesla in a different area.


Does your article discuss Tesla, Tesla batteries? No, it doesn’t therefor you’re just trolling.
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Old 05-18-2019, 06:42 AM   #35
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Default Senators Look to Rally U.S. EV Material Production

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Committee looking to expedite mining process for needed materials.
Tesla's Gigafactory is basically a one-stop shop for EV production. A Senate committee is looking to make it easier for EV makers to get the materials needed in the U.S.

While the Trump administration – through the Environmental Protection Agency – continues to press for changes in fuel economy regulations that would to sideline efforts to put more EVs on the road across the United States, the U.S. Congress is getting nervous about China’s fast moving electric-car effort.

Both Republicans and Democrats in the U.S. Senate are voicing support for a national electric car supply chain policy in the United States Senate, according to a report from Reuters.

The Senate’s Energy and Natural Resources Committee recently held a hearing on the American Mineral Security Act. The legislation aims to make it easier and quicker for U.S. mines to meet regulations and gain permits for lithium, graphite and other minerals or precious materials needed for electric car production. It would also require a tally of metal reserves in the country.

The legislation features bipartisan sponsorship: Republican Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Democrat Joe Manchin of West Virginia. At the hearing, Murkowski said the U.S. is doing itself no favors by not knowing how much of a particular natural resource is available, in reference to the tally mandate for electric car materials, according to Reuters.

The process would send field experts out across the U.S. to take rock samples and understand what minerals might be hiding beneath our own feet. Experts said current estimates of lithium and other rare earth minerals used in battery production are likely conservative.

A group of U.S. senators developed new legislation designed to protect and expedited the mining of minerals needed for EV batteries and vehicles.

The committee heard testimony that China has a huge head start on production and processing. Even some U.S. facilities face somewhat of a monopoly and must send minerals to China for processing because the market remains weak domestically.

Some companies called for federal loan guarantees to boost mining production and jump start the market. Investors are often wary of new mine projects in the U.S. because of China’s dominance in the segment.

China is also moving ahead rapidly with developing new battery chemistries, which depend largely on minerals easily available in China, experts have said.

(To see more about the bipartisan effort to reinstate EV tax credits, Click Here.)

China’s lead in the electric car market isn’t all that surprising. The government has offered incentives to manufacturers to produce and sell EVs for several years as it looked to improve the air quality of its major cities and retain its leadership in the segment.
.S. Senate moves forward on plan to develop electric vehicle supply chain
Ernest Scheyder
6 MIN READ
(Reuters) - U.S. lawmakers on Tuesday moved closer to developing a national electric vehicle supply chain policy, with senators voicing bipartisan support for legislation designed to parry China’s dominance in metals production and battery manufacturing.

A sign at the approach road leads to Albemarle's lithium evaporation ponds at its facility in Silver Peak, Nevada, U.S., January 9, 2019. REUTERS/Ernest Scheyder
The Senate’s Energy and Natural Resources Committee held a hearing on the American Mineral Security Act, which would help streamline regulation and permitting requirements for the development of mines for lithium, graphite and other EV minerals.

The pending legislation would require a tally of metal reserves in the United States and seek to streamline permitting for the EV sector, an area where China already leads by a wide margin.

The bipartisan legislation, which seeks in part to codify a late 2017 executive order on U.S. mineral development by President Donald Trump, was sponsored by U.S. senators Lisa Murkowski, Joe Manchin and others.

“We are not doing ourselves any favors when we don’t know what we have in our inventory,” Murkowski, an Alaska Republican, said at the hearing, which was web cast. “I suspect we have more than we even think we do.”

Even some existing U.S. mines are in China’s orbit, with domestic production of so-called rare earth minerals reliant on Chinese processing and now caught up in the U.S.-China trade conflict.

“China has a huge head start,” said Gavin Montgomery, a battery and mining analyst at the Wood Mackenzie consultancy. “They’ve just been at this a lot longer than the rest of the world.”

Trump Administration officials from the Interior and Energy departments voiced support for the pending legislation.

“We are committed to producing domestically sourced minerals,” Joe Balash, assistant secretary for land and minerals management at the Interior Department, said at the hearing.

Just how much cobalt and other minerals used to make EVs are actually in the United States is anyone’s guess, as the nation has conducted little by way of a national survey.

Current estimates from the U.S. Geological Survey rely on corporate annual reports, historical data from the U.S. Bureau of Mines and other sources, according to USGS spokesman Alex Demas.

Finding out the mineral composition of a particular region requires sending staff into the field to take rock samples, a timely and expensive endeavor. Murkowski’s legislation would require a nationwide reserve analysis for all minerals used to make EVs.

USGS data show, for example, that the United States has 35,000 tonnes of lithium in reserve, a figure that the agency and industry executives see as conservative.

Albemarle Corp operates the only U.S. lithium mine, a facility with the capacity to produce about 6,000 tonnes annually. According to current USGS data, that means that one mine could deplete U.S. reserves within six years.

Several lithium projects are under development across the nation, including those from ioneer Ltd, Lithium Americas Corp and Piedmont Lithium Ltd. Each aims to produce at least 20,000 tonnes of lithium per year, according to corporate presentations.

Jon Evans, president of Lithium Americas, told the hearing that the federal government should offer loan guarantees for U.S. mining and processing projects.

“Federal loan guarantees would confirm the government’s commitment to the development of a critical minerals supply chain,” said Evans.

Beyond physical reserves, concerns about the lack of U.S. processing facilities are also cause for worry.

China controls about 85 percent of the globe’s cobalt sulfate processing, according to WoodMac data. Cobalt sulfate is the version of the metal used in lithium ion batteries.

One of Albemarle's lithium evaporation ponds reflects the sky at its facility in Silver Peak, Nevada, U.S., January 9, 2019. REUTERS/Ernest Scheyder
eCobalt Solutions Inc aims to produce 1,500 tonnes per year of cobalt once its Idaho project opens, though that is enough of the metal to make only about 300,000 EVs.

“The fact that China maintains a near monopoly on the critical minerals needed for our defense system makes no sense at all,” said Manchin, a West Virginia Democrat.

The Committee has not yet set a date to vote on the legislation.

The United States does have some processing capability. Albemarle and rival Livent Corp process some lithium domestically. Syrah Resources Ltd mines graphite in Mozambique and ships it to Louisiana for processing for use in making battery parts.

The United States is also reliant on China for rare earth processing, a group of 17 elements used to make electric vehicles and consumer electronics.

California’s Mountain Pass mine, owned by MP Materials, must pay a 25 percent tariff to ship rare earths it extracts from its California mine to China for processing, the collateral damage in the ongoing U.S.-China trade war.

“All we seek is a level playing field to compete as a low-cost producer so we can help establish an EV supply chain in the United States,” said James Litinsky, co-chairman of MP Materials.

But those facilities tend to be the exception and investors so far have been wary of funding new U.S. projects in part due to China’s dominance, with concerns that any investment would be difficult to recoup.

“Ultimately, these projects have to stack up economically, even if U.S. politicians make it easier to get permitting,” said WoodMac’s Montgomery.

(For a graphic on 'Lithium projects underway in the United States' click tmsnrt.rs/2CXdGWN)
Both are Reuters articles
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