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Old 12-18-2005, 03:19 AM   #1
swapstar
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Default ok. who actually knows ej20K electronics and ej20G electronics well?

ok. trying to figure out this puzzle of mine;


ej20g notes:

- coil on plug. 4 plug ecu (unless u have late 96/97), RA versions had option of 5th injector, Sti-RA had 5th injector for the most part

ej20K notes:

intake plumbing under intake manifold
coilpack (waste spark)
differnt intake box system - angled thing on side with straight inlet into turbo instead of 90deg like ej20G

questions:

#1 question- what the heck does the 5th injector do on the ej20G sti-RA's
-i believe Power FC cannot control the 5th injector. true/false?
#2 is coil on plug ej20g better than ej20K/207 v1 waste spark?
#3 whats more powerful; Powerfc for EJ20G or powerfc for Ej20K. or the same
-im assuming the ej20K ecu is smarter than the ej20G
#4 anyone have flow comparisons between Ej20G style intake manifold and ej20K intake manifold?
-the bendy side thing vs a McDonalds arch type
#5 anyone have proof if a ej20K fmic kit will fit a ej20G? Jaxx?

also. anyone have a comparison between VF23 and Td05 16G?


--sorry for the complex post, just trying to figure out the holes that my puzzle is playing......


trying to figure out how (or if i want to) put this v4 sti-RA engine in place of a v2 sti-ra, and what ecu (or powerFC) and what wiring harness bundle to power it with.....
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Old 12-18-2005, 11:18 AM   #2
d00f
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1) no experience I've heard of some people using it for water injection
2) I prefer the wasted spark because you can then upgrade your coils. COP is good because there are no wires to deal with but the coils are expensive. Trust me, I blew 4 on a customer's car trying to get his POS buggy haltech system to work. That was an expensive day for me.

3) no experience

4) The EJ20K is slightly larger on the runners but there is no significant difference in flow.

5) it will require some minor modifications any good performance/fabrication shop can perform.

-Michael
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Old 12-18-2005, 02:05 PM   #3
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hmm

you know the differances on the COP's with the white middles and the black middles? both seem to be interchangeable-

h
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Old 12-18-2005, 02:57 PM   #4
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5.hmm maybe the throttle body on the G is closer to the firewall.. a k intercooler setup should fit your engine
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Old 12-18-2005, 03:07 PM   #5
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my concern with fmic kits for K's is that the side inlet 90 deg turbo in might get in the way of the fmic cold pipe. anyone have experiances with this?
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Old 12-18-2005, 09:33 PM   #6
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As you know, the Taiwan GTs have an EJ20G but are wasted spark. My man here told me a lot of kids spend the bucks to fit the COP system, but there doesn't seem to be any performance benefit and he claims the spark isn't as strong as the coilpack's anyway.
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Old 12-18-2005, 10:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swapstar
#1 question- what the heck does the 5th injector do on the ej20G sti-RA's
-i believe Power FC cannot control the 5th injector. true/false?
#2 is coil on plug ej20g better than ej20K/207 v1 waste spark?
#1) In the JDM wiring diagram, the 5th injector is not controlled by the ECU. Ground is direct and power comes from the Ignition relay. Doesn't make sense to me.

#2) From what I have read from experience Haltech tuners is that the COP is junk and a changing over to later style WS is advised.

-Rob
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Old 12-19-2005, 10:45 AM   #8
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his motor is the much later G from a wagon/automatic. it looks like a ej20k with intake under the runners
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:06 PM   #9
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my ej20G is the olderstyle sti-ra with the 5th injector and the 90 deg inlet. who's late model G are you talking about?

so is it beneficial to swap to the K electronics?

i have spare cop's so im not worried about that-

any one else with experiance?
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Old 12-19-2005, 11:32 PM   #10
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just curious, where is the injector located? and are you sure its controled by ignition and not by the pcm?
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Old 12-20-2005, 10:50 AM   #11
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woops got you confused with some one else ...
i bought this guy
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33742
it will work with the 90 inlet but you will have to do a differnt intake of some flavor
is going to need fab work any way to mount BOV
-j
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Old 12-20-2005, 12:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman4us
just curious, where is the injector located? and are you sure its controled by ignition and not by the pcm?

They are mounted on top of the manifold. Someone will have to trace wires to verify, but that's what the JDM impreza wiring manual shows. Reading from the manual, from the 5th injector connector, a Black-Blue wire goes straight to GE ground on the left strut tower, and a Red-White wire going to plug E2 (engine harness connector near the battery), connected to B4 (the bulkhead wiring connector connecting to E2), it changes color to Yellow-Green, then goes to connector B112 pin 4, which connects to the ignition relay.

Well hold on.......... So in one copy of the wiring diagram, someone had written that the relay was an "Ignition relay" so I didn't bother looking at the control wires. This relay is actually controlled by the ECU, so it's not an ignition relay at all. It goes back to the 26 pin ECU connector as Yellow-Black wire. This is an interesting find because in the UK manual this pin controls the Purge solenoid. Hmm, I have to update my notes for when I wire mine in.

So, I was wrong it is controlled by the ECU through this additional relay. This means it's not a PWM signal like a typical injector. It is either a cold start injector or a simple enrichment injector that turns on under certain load/RPM conditions (assuming it has fuel, not water going to it).

I need to get some parts of the wiring pages translated to see if that clears this up.

-Rob
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Old 12-20-2005, 02:30 PM   #13
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Digging around on the UK board, Scoobynet, the common opinions are the 5th injector;

-Does nothing unless used with a GroupN ECU. Homologation rules required it be fitted to the road cars even if it didn't do anything. Others have said it's not actually hooked up to the ECU (could have made the same mistake in the diagrams that I did)

-Is used for cold start operation.

In general there is still a lot of confusion and questions asked about it since UK didn't get this model either (but imports do show up).

-Rob
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Old 12-20-2005, 02:56 PM   #14
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Picture of the 5th injector;

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Old 12-20-2005, 03:04 PM   #15
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what year is that guy? im guessing WRX-RA, or 94? most OG sti ej20G has powersteering cooler and square ps pumpy.

hmm.. where to get a group-N ecu.....
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Old 12-20-2005, 03:55 PM   #16
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probably a '94 or '95 WRX-RA. From what I have found only theWRX-RA and STi WRX-RAs MY'94-95 ('96 maybe??) came with these injectors. They were standard and not optional as I remember reading in another conversion thread. Also looks like a big negative on the power FC utilizing the 5th injector.
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Old 12-20-2005, 04:08 PM   #17
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so i guess my real question is:

IF i can get a group N ecu or some way to tune my stock ecu well, is it:

worth it to keep the 5th injector setup?

or just swap over to the entire ej20K setup. i have EVERYTHING to do it, just trying to figure out if its worth the trouble of me R&R ing it all

rob- can your smart engineer brain give me some simulations?
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Old 12-20-2005, 04:17 PM   #18
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hmm intersting where does it connect to the fuel rail..
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Old 12-20-2005, 04:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxx
hmm intersting where does it connect to the fuel rail..
Only thing I have found is this picture which shows the connections after the parallel fuel rail mod.

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/ja...rallelFuel.jpg
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Old 12-20-2005, 04:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swapstar
so i guess my real question is:

IF i can get a group N ecu or some way to tune my stock ecu well, is it:

worth it to keep the 5th injector setup?

or just swap over to the entire ej20K setup. i have EVERYTHING to do it, just trying to figure out if its worth the trouble of me R&R ing it all

rob- can your smart engineer brain give me some simulations?
RE: figuring a way to run the 5th injector:
I compute it would be a waste of farkin' time.

Now I think your real question is, do you swap out your running ver2 STi-RA motor, for Ver4 STi-RA motor? I'd say **** ya mofo, but I don't really know the specific differences. Have to go back and read my Impreza reference book...

-Rob
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Old 12-20-2005, 08:36 PM   #21
swapstar
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yes. that is the bottom line question. to do it or not, and if i should run the Ej20G electronic system or the EJ20K......


wonder wonder wonderers.

my current motor is also a highcomp 9:1. spooks up the bottom end torque Quick
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Old 12-21-2005, 01:35 AM   #22
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that extra injector makes no sense. for cold starts they can just increase the duty cycle on the injectors to get extra fuel (like every other car does). and even for race/ high load sitatons the injector cycle can be increased.

and i would say it is worth putting in the V4. becoue every year subaru made good improvements to the motors, not sure what they are but i do belive that the V4 had better heads.
and as for using the ej20G wiring, im pritty sure it wont work. sense the older motors are coil on plug and the V4 is a waist spark(correct me if im wrong). and i think that the ECU plugs might be different as well.

rob- would you have EJ20H wiring diagrams by any chance?
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Old 12-21-2005, 02:00 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman4us
that extra injector makes no sense. for cold starts they can just increase the duty cycle on the injectors to get extra fuel (like every other car does). and even for race/ high load sitatons the injector cycle can be increased.

rob- would you have EJ20H wiring diagrams by any chance?
Toyota used seperate cold start injectors for many years. Not sure exactly what benefit that scheme is. Perhaps you get less dropping out of the fuel onto the port walls if you do a short spray further upstream. The point for high load situations is to use it when you start to max out your standard injectors. Again it's not uncommon.

I don't have those diagrams, sorry.

-Rob
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Old 12-21-2005, 02:14 AM   #24
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well by spraying the fuel higher up it has a better chance of condensing back into droplets and collecting on the walls of the manifold. (on reason carborators suck so bad)
fuel is at its finest mist right after it leaves the injector and about to go into the combstion chamber. by having injectors as close as you can to the combustion chamber the high temps insure that the fuel stays in a mist/ vapor form and not in liquid form. however by having them close to the CC the temps can effect the injector itself. thats my .o2 on that one.

thanks anyways about the diagrams.
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Old 12-21-2005, 03:48 AM   #25
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i could convert the V4 to full v2 elecs. thats easy as pie, just swap engine harnesses and bolt on teh cop's

hmm.. i wonders...
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