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Old 10-04-2012, 11:12 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
CVTs from all brands have reliability issues and seem to have higher repair rates after warranty expiration than automatics or manuals.

I was unaware Subaru's Lineartronic was having reliability issues. Could you elaborate?
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:40 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Subaru's Lineartronic CVT has proved to be reliable.
They've been out, what? 3 model years.. including the 2013s?
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:59 AM   #28
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They've been out, what? 3 model years.. including the 2013s?
MORE than enough time to establish its awesomeness, sir!
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:03 PM   #29
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They've been out, what? 3 model years.. including the 2013s?

That statement is fine with me, but that also goes for his statement. I have not heard of any reliability issues with them. We have several customers well into the xxx,000 mile ranges with zero problems. Was just wanting him to clarify his statement when it comes to Subaru's CVT.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:50 PM   #30
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There are several things that make the new Impreza have 30% better mpg than previous Imprezas, but the number one thing is the CVT; so how does it have "little to no mileage benefit"?

Subaru's Lineartronic CVT has proved to be reliable.

As for sucking to drive....well....that is preference. I think they are fine.
Nope. CVTs offer zero benefit in efficiency over a modern DCT or automatic. Comparing it to Subaru's previous horrible 4EAT is disingenuous.

Ford was an early(ish) adopter of CVTs but they've dropped the use of them entirely. Their PowerShift DCT transmissions offer better gas mileage than a CVT would. CVTs have the benefit of wider ratios, but they do not lock up anywhere near as tight as a DCT or modern auto. They are quite a bit more lossy than you'd expect. Most manufacturers are going with modern automatics or DCTs over CVTs.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:32 AM   #31
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Nope. CVTs offer zero benefit in efficiency over a modern DCT or automatic. Comparing it to Subaru's previous horrible 4EAT is disingenuous.

Ford was an early(ish) adopter of CVTs but they've dropped the use of them entirely. Their PowerShift DCT transmissions offer better gas mileage than a CVT would. CVTs have the benefit of wider ratios, but they do not lock up anywhere near as tight as a DCT or modern auto. They are quite a bit more lossy than you'd expect. Most manufacturers are going with modern automatics or DCTs over CVTs.

Aren't pretty much all hybrids CVT? Including Fords? Also, I believe the new Accord has gone CVT. Audi's? I am sure I am missing some "modern" ones. Oh wait, Nissan is pretty much all CVT. Heck, the next Pathfinder is CVT.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:35 AM   #32
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Nope. CVTs offer zero benefit in efficiency over a modern DCT or automatic. Comparing it to Subaru's previous horrible 4EAT is disingenuous.

You didn't say that initially. Since the Impreza went to CVT and gets 30% better mpg than before, it made your statement a bit off...
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:24 AM   #33
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Their current 6 speeds hunt around enough already. I can only imagine what a 9 or 10 speed would be like.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:43 AM   #34
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^^^^ A CVT lol
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:17 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Nissan is pretty much all CVT. Heck, the next Pathfinder is CVT.
I saw that they are rating the Pathfinder with a 5,000# tow capacity also. I don't see how they are going to keep that one together.

Peace,

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Old 10-05-2012, 09:33 PM   #36
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I saw that they are rating the Pathfinder with a 5,000# tow capacity also. I don't see how they are going to keep that one together.

Peace,

Greg
Yeah, one of our Nissan guys was telling me it is a new type CVT. I am sorry I can't remember how he described it. I was busy that day and my mind wasn't on it.
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:09 AM   #37
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Aren't pretty much all hybrids CVT? Including Fords? Also, I believe the new Accord has gone CVT. Audi's? I am sure I am missing some "modern" ones. Oh wait, Nissan is pretty much all CVT. Heck, the next Pathfinder is CVT.
Hybrid CVTs are a completely different beast. They're not typically set up in the same way as a IC engine's CVT.

Ford ditched their CVTs due to durability problems. Audi ditched their CVTs due to durability problems. MINI ditched their CVTs due to durability problems. Nissan (the biggest supporter of the tech) extended the warranties (10 year 120k) of eight models over a span of seven years due to a huge number of failures.

Honda going CVT isn't a surprise because they've never managed to make an automatic worth a damn.
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
You didn't say that initially. Since the Impreza went to CVT and gets 30% better mpg than before, it made your statement a bit off...
Nobody makes transmissions as horrible as the 4EAT anymore. If you're comparing a NEW Impreza with other NEW cars, you'd be comparing the CVT to modern automatics (like Hyundai's 6AT or Ford's PS).
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:57 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Aren't pretty much all hybrids CVT? Including Fords? Also, I believe the new Accord has gone CVT. Audi's? I am sure I am missing some "modern" ones. Oh wait, Nissan is pretty much all CVT. Heck, the next Pathfinder is CVT.
Look here
http://eahart.com/prius/psd/

That is how it works. Pretty robust solution. The volt is similar. The licensed hybrids are all similar as well. So are most of the others that use some sort of planetary gear set. These are used in buses with no problem. Plenty robust.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:58 AM   #39
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The only experiences I've had with cvt's are an early outback and a murano. The outback felt like I left the hand brake on. The murano was better. Its my mother in laws car. Its done around 110,000 miles and has never had a transmission issue. I believe it tows a small trailer every once in a while. It drives like a normal automatic in regular every day commuter style but if you romp on it it goes up to about 6000rpm and just sits there making noise. It progresses OK but I find myself constantly checking the speedometer as there is zero feedback.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:04 AM   #40
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Hybrid CVTs are a completely different beast. They're not typically set up in the same way as a IC engine's CVT.

Ford ditched their CVTs due to durability problems. Audi ditched their CVTs due to durability problems. MINI ditched their CVTs due to durability problems. Nissan (the biggest supporter of the tech) extended the warranties (10 year 120k) of eight models over a span of seven years due to a huge number of failures.

Honda going CVT isn't a surprise because they've never managed to make an automatic worth a damn.


Nobody makes transmissions as horrible as the 4EAT anymore. If you're comparing a NEW Impreza with other NEW cars, you'd be comparing the CVT to modern automatics (like Hyundai's 6AT or Ford's PS).
You almost had me, until you mentioned the Hyundai 6AT which is downright dreadful from behind the wheel.

Also Ford's PowerShift is terrible when it can "learn" its way into hard shifts and bucking behavior. Then you need to go to the Ford dealership, get it reset, cross your fingers, and drive away hoping it won't screw up again. Then 5000 miles later you are back at the dealer getting another reset because it's acting like trash again. One of my friends has a new EcoBoost F150 and he is on his third transmission and 5th or 6th reset right now. The dealer is at the point where they have nothing to say except "You are driving it wrong" and they won't work on the truck. The truck is parked while the lawyers work it out.

Last edited by ocellaris; 10-08-2012 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:23 PM   #41
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You almost had me, until you mentioned the Hyundai 6AT which is downright dreadful from behind the wheel.

Also Ford's PowerShift is terrible when it can "learn" its way into hard shifts and bucking behavior. Then you need to go to the Ford dealership, get it reset, cross your fingers, and drive away hoping it won't screw up again. Then 5000 miles later you are back at the dealer getting another reset because it's acting like trash again. One of my friends has a new EcoBoost F150 and he is on his third transmission and 5th or 6th reset right now. The dealer is at the point where they have nothing to say except "You are driving it wrong" and they won't work on the truck. The truck is parked while the lawyers work it out.
The F150 doesn't have a PS transmission, it's a conventional automatic. The problems with the PowerShift were largely with the early adopters and have been sorted. It's not the smoothest or fastest transmission in the world, but it's frugal and way more engaging than a CVT.
Hyundai's problem is they program their transmissions to upshift as soon as it won't stall the engine. If you drive with a heavier foot they perk up a bit.

Last edited by BigElm; 10-08-2012 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:57 PM   #42
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Meh, my bicycle has 27, 27 speed! I say it's time our cars has at least over 9000!!!
I say it's time you took some English lessons.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:36 PM   #43
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Friend of mine bought an altima in 2007 with a CVT. He had the trans replaced 3 times. Doesn't drive insane or with a jerky right foot. Drove it a few times, only problem I had was the electric brakes which had no feedback and even lightly pressing it pretty much locked the brakes up bad. CVTs will eventually be the future of most ATs once they are able to come up with a solid robust design. Remember fuel injection was outright lousy when it first came out, some weren't even electric. Now you couldn't possibly imagine a car without port fuel injection, with the future being you can't imagine a car without direct fuel injection. That's how progression works, it starts lousy and works its way up till something better comes along.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:16 AM   #44
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Friend of mine bought an altima in 2007 with a CVT. He had the trans replaced 3 times. Doesn't drive insane or with a jerky right foot. Drove it a few times, only problem I had was the electric brakes which had no feedback and even lightly pressing it pretty much locked the brakes up bad. CVTs will eventually be the future of most ATs once they are able to come up with a solid robust design. Remember fuel injection was outright lousy when it first came out, some weren't even electric. Now you couldn't possibly imagine a car without port fuel injection, with the future being you can't imagine a car without direct fuel injection. That's how progression works, it starts lousy and works its way up till something better comes along.
Unfortunately, the automotive CVT isn't new.. Subaru was selling a CVT car in 1987.
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Old 05-13-2016, 09:56 AM   #45
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Default 2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 10-Speed Automatic Transmission

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2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 10-Speed Automatic Transmission Is That New Shift

If you’ve had the pleasure of viewing the 2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 hot lop ride along featuring our very own Manoli Katakis, then you already know how special the new Hydra-Matic 10-speed automatic transmission really is. You can expect to see it as an available option for other models come 2018.

Dan Nicholson, vice-president, GM Global Propulsion Systems, explains the benefits of taking the time to develop such ground-breaking technology:

“With world-class shift times on par with the world’s best dual-clutch transmissions and the refinement that comes only from a true automatic, the 10-speed delivers incomparable performance on and off the track. It also leverages the experience of our other multi-speed transmissions to deliver that performance with greater efficiency as its use expands into other vehicles.”

One of the dual-clutch transmissions Nicholoson is referring to is the Porsche PDK; testing has shown that the the 1-2 upshift is 36-percent quicker than the PDK, while the 2-3 and 3-4 upshifts are 27-percent and 26-percent quicker, respectively.

So, in other words, shifting goes like: SNAP!, SNAP!, BANG!, SNAP!, BANG! in a seemingly seamless scoot to peak velocity.

Thanks to a unique triple-clutch the design, GM was able to fit all the new hardware of the 10-speed in a one-piece aluminum case that’s approximately the same size as the 8-speed and 6-speed transmissions. The integral bell housing helps reduce weight and enhance powertrain stiffness, while a unique 260 mm, integral turbine clutch torque converter design reduces complexity and helps make the converter thinner, which contributes to the transmission’s packaging.

Take a look at the chart below which shows the difference between the 10-speed and eight-speed GM Hydra-Matic transmissions.

Type: 10-speed automatic eight-speed automatic
Gear ratios (:1)
First: 4.70 M 4.56
Second: 2.99 2.97
Third: 2.15 2.08
Fourth: 1.80 1.69
Fifth: 1.52 1.27
Sixth: 1.28 1.00
Seventh: 1.00 0.85
Eighth: 0.85 0.65
Ninth: 0.69
Tenth: 0.64
Reverse: 4.87 3.82

The 10-speed has four simple gearsets and six clutches: two brake clutches and four rotating clutches. That’s only one more clutch than the eight-speed, despite having two more forward gears, contributing further to the compact packaging, while also improving spin losses to enhance fuel efficiency. The unit is made even more efficient with ultra-low viscosity transmission fluid also reduces friction, while an internal thermal bypass allows the transmission to warm up faster, which also contributes to greater fuel efficiency over GM’s older transmissions.

Adaptive shift controls such as Performance Algorithm Shifting and Driver Shift Control enhance performance driving. It is the latest transmission to use an all-new, GM-developed control system, meaning it has performance calibrations tailored specifically for different vehicles, such as the 2017 Camaro ZL1.
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Old 05-13-2016, 10:02 AM   #46
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^^
5th and 6th are lot lower and 10th is About the same as 8th in the eight speed unit.

Sorry about the crappy chart I fixed it 2 times then when I post it , it snaps back to that unaligned mess.
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Old 05-13-2016, 10:23 AM   #47
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Will make for a good drag car, bur otherwise takes away from the fun. Ratios are so close that you don't need a motor with a flat torque curve, or one that revs to the moon. I found this in the ZF 8-speed that everyone seems to love so much. It's just boring. They also don't snap your head like a single-clutch does - again, these autos and dual-clutches are faster, but not as fun. I'll take the fun.
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Old 05-13-2016, 10:43 AM   #48
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even though they are talking about the ZL1, this is for fuel economy on trucks more than anything. And they've had enough time to study some of the mistakes others have done in the past (ZF 9 speed).

GM has always been good at mating slushbox autos to pushrods.
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Old 05-13-2016, 01:32 PM   #49
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They brag about the upshift times (impressive), but how are the downshifts? Downshifting has always been poor in automatics.
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:09 PM   #50
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...And response time to the driver input. I've found, in older exotic cars with paddle shifters, that while the shift time is quick, there is still the delay from when you tap the paddle, and when it begins to execute the shift. It's pretty annoying, and doesn't seem to be mentioned in a lot of the transmission talk. But while they have all these great specs of how fast the transmission changes gear, they neglect to mention how long it takes the *car* to change gear from when you ask for it.
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